Is the nation of Israel really of the devil, fooling Christians?

[Soverign Grace]

@Soverign Grace

If you are arguing that Talmudic Jews, as a group of people, should not be trusted, at this time, by Christians, and should not be part of Christian communities due to injustices, and history, you may have a good point. Tolerance is not a virtue. You seem to want a separation from the Talmudic Jews? Ok. That would be the start of the Book of Acts where early Christians separated themselves from "The World?" They didn't want to be around the Pharisee either? At least, not in terms of who their neighbor was.

How does arguing against the Jews not being DNA Jews, help you? What does that do for you in the long run? Isn't it better for them to have their own country? That sounds kind of funny, but your motivations are funny and kind of twisted here.

You are making an argument that the Talmudic Jews are not Jews........towards what? God is just. Given the Jews have been doing wrong, God will punish them in due time. It may also be in God's plans:



Given people were made aware of what the Talmudic Jews have done, they should be angry. There is a lot of anger and guilt to be passed around. For example, Kabbalah, Mysticism for Christ Deniers, was used by "The Golden Dawn," an organization that helped produce Wicca and Crowley. It has been used around the occult by people like Madonna and Brittany Spears, and various other celebrities were into Kabbalah. Brittany Spears, for example, started to go crazy, and shaved her head, after leaving Kabbalah. Was that just a mental breakdown or something spiritual?

There has been a lot of guilt to pass around. When someone really looks at what the Talmudic Jews have been doing, they may have found many haters of God and righteous, be they Jew or Not.

Your focus seems to be Jew hate and Jealousy.

God is love. God is a forgiver. Also, the world may have been set up for failure by many false teachers and false shepherds be they Talmudic Jew or Not. This may lead to hard things in the future with no repentance.

What is the goal or motivation in exposing said things? If someone were to broach this subject, on Reddit for example, as it as been done here, broach the subject on a Christian sub, you would get banned in 2016-2018. I got was banned from /r/messianic where I was mostly learning, for posting about Jeremiah 30, and alleging that the Jews COULD have done something wrong, and what they did wrong merited punishment.

You're accusing me of things I don't even know about. I don't even know what you mean by "Talmadic Jews" and Jew hate - who hates the Jews??? Not me. I'm just questioning. Sorry the explanation isn't sexier than that. I'm no expert on this and stated that from the start. I have no reason to hate Jews - or blacks, or Asians, or Irish...I'm not really arguing anything - I'm on the cusp of this and don't yet know enough. It's why I'm gathering other opinions. God has opened my eyes up to what is really going on in the world now - why all these disparate things are happening: it's the NWO being implemented and it dovetails with Revelations - of which I've also stated I'm no expert on. I know that Christ warned us to not be deceived. I take that warning very seriously. If many are they that travel on the wide road then I want to find the narrow road. I'm unsure yet what that is.

However, I'm willing to look at other viewpoints instead of shutting them out. When I was first saved I was bounced around like a ping pong ball listening to radio preachers. It took awhile and I developed discernment - it was a long and painful road. Now I want to preserve all those years I spent in the wilderness - and that means not believing everything that pastors teach. I paid too high of a price to get to where I am with God. I had zero help - my parents, my husband, my siblings, my friends, my neighbors - were all unbelievers. I had a hard road. What angered me was that I learned that my great grandfather was a pastor - and my forbears dropped the ball and didn't pass on the faith. I was raised Catholic.

For instance - I've talked to others on here who are convinced that Trump is Making America Great Again - God opened my eyes that he's not. I studied demonology alongside of the bible - a topic that should have been the furthest from me - indeed in my younger years was the furthest from me. But I was attacked early on - bad. Following that God made me deal with highly manipulative, sneaky people who had the stamp of satan upon them - they were undoubtedly in his kingdom. I was further forced to learn about how to recognize sneaky, sly acts. During that time I realized that God was having me develop discernment. In fact a bible teacher later remarked on it. Fast forward to now. I know that Freemasons communicate using hand signs - CP knows it too and saw a "Jewish" preacher throwing Freemason hand signs. It's in your face if you learn to recognize it. I looked it all up and researched past presidents and was able to find all of them back to Reagan throwing the same hand signs. All of Hollywood does too.

Chuck Baldwin had the scales fall from his eyes about Trump - which makes me see that he has astute discernment because my eyes have also been opened to Trump's deception. The wars are all a lie - we've been lied to.

At the point I'm at now I'm walking circumspectly - trying to find what is the truth - no matter what it is. Whether Israel is a counterfeit. It seems to invoke strong reactions on here. I think we should at least look at the evidence and study it carefully. If no one else does then I will.

I think every single one of us would do well to question everything. You...or I...could be wrong.

My motivation is that America keeps involved in wars that are apparently being ordered by Israel. I'm wondering if these wars are being directed by satanists - illuminati - instead of their being a "holy war" as we've been led to believe. We're told God protected little Israel from her enemies - that's what the pastor at bible study told me. But I've seen first hand how a soldier comes back with TBI - and how it destroys their life and their families lives. All for what?

I'm just questioning all this. Rather than attacking me - why don't you look into it to see if there is any truth in it. Truth isn't afraid to be held up to the light. But I find that if you question anything about Israel you're automatically accused of anti-semitism. I didn't even know what the word meant until this year! Point being I don't know enough even about it to be anti-semitic. What I am is a Berean. Truth has no fear in being held up to the light.

Proverbs 23:23

“Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.”[/QUOTE]

 

[Man on Fire]

I'm unsure. It's all something that I came across when reading and I don't yet know what the truth is. You do know that it was a Jew that uncovered this fact?

Not all Talmudic Jews are Zionists.

On top of society, there may have been a ruling class. In Ancient Egypt or Babylon, this may have been Nobles and Priests or Wisemen. In Medieval France, there was a Noble Class, and the Catholic Priests were in a class of their own. Part of being in a ruling class may have been working to Shepherd people.

The Lord is a Shepherd. (Psalms 23) God is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. God has a Rod and a Staff. In a similar way, a mummy of a Pharaoh may have had a Rod and a Staff? Part of the mindset of someone in a ruling class may have been "Working to keep order by shepherding people." This isn't necessarily evil. It depends on who is in power.

I am a certified teacher. As part of my teacher training I took a class called Education Psychology. Educational Psychology was about using certain psychological techniques to keep good order in the classroom, and help kids learn. A system or rewards and discipline is created. A teacher who was good at classroom management may have been like a Shepherd, he students his flock. Was he a good or a bad shepherd? Was he effective? Was he of God?

Part of understanding Shepherding is understanding God's left and right hands.

Previous Post: "God's Left and Right Hands."

George W. Bush and John Kerry were two very different people so it seemed? They were both Skull and Bones. Is there some connection? They were both Globalists like Globalist Hillary Clinton. They may have seemed like two very different people playing different roles, but they may have been motivated towards Globalism, and some sort of Globalist entity, like banks or whatever, have been working to shepherd mankind to something.

When you say that a Talmudic Jew proposed the idea that Jews were not Jews based on DNA, was that an individual with an opinion, or someone serving the Jewish community in some context towards some purpose? That gets into Conspiracy. Shepherding, just like a teacher using Educational Psychology towards maintaining good order in his classroom, is a very real thing. On the top, in the ruling class, there have been people who have been aware of it in some context.

 

[Soverign Grace]

You are getting into "Social Darwinism." I have most seen that argument from Muslims. A lot of people have been taught to think like that, and have fallen onto that argument when talking about Talmudic Jews.

Consider this: How much does DNA matter? Were the people who left Egypt with Moses a racially pure people? They had been slaves for 400 and so years. What seemed to be most important is that someone came from a good family and could draw a family line, or was accepted into one of the tribes. Baal Worship involved temple prostitution, Israel is a crossroads country. Israel was linked to silk road trade, and there were armies marching through there. They were surrounded by pagan nations. Given Baal Worship, and something like Ezekiel 23, was Israel around the time of David even pure in DNA from the time of Moses? In Ezekiel 23, Israel and Judah were like two sisters god married who prostituted themselves with foreign nations and foreign gods. A lot of Nations traveled through Israel? God kicked them out into the Nations. That was an Eye for an Eye and a tooth for a tooth.

In the Torah, there is a process for outsiders to become Jews. The Talmudic Jews have seemed to fit Characteristics of Jews in the Bible, good or bad.

Are the Talmudic Jews, Jews? Given they are, they are tied to God's promises and curses, and we may be able to see that in history.

It is that easy. Debate over.

No. The Talmudic Jews are not tied to God's promises and curses, and we do not see that in History.

Yes. The Talmudic Jews are tied to God's promises and curses, and we may see that in history.

Debate over.

There is a Scripture verse that states that Christians are the Jews but my internet is down this morning and I can't find it.

You said that you were thrown off a forum for questioning something about the Jews and yet you're hurling accusations of anti-semitism at me. How did it feel when it was done to you?

People seem to get upset whenever you question anything about Israel. I'm sorry but God told me to be a Berean and that's who I'm going to follow.

I know that God opened my eyes up to a lot this past year and my prayer is that the same will happen to others. I know that Chuck Baldwin had his eyes opened - because it happened to me and he sees the same things.

All I know is that if people are so afraid to hold something up to the light then there is usually a reason. Truth has no fear of the light.

 

[Man on Fire]

You're accusing me of things I don't even know about. I don't even know what you mean by "Talmadic Jews" and Jew hate - who hates the Jews??? Not me. I'm just questioning. Sorry the explanation isn't sexier than that. I'm no expert on this and stated that from the start. I have no reason to hate Jews - or blacks, or Asians, or Irish...I'm not really arguing anything - I'm on the cusp of this and don't yet know enough. It's why I'm gathering other opinions. God has opened my eyes up to what is really going on in the world now - why all these disparate things are happening: it's the NWO being implemented and it dovetails with Revelations - of which I've also stated I'm no expert on. I know that Christ warned us to not be deceived. I take that warning very seriously. If many are they that travel on the wide road then I want to find the narrow road. I'm unsure yet what that is.

However, I'm willing to look at other viewpoints instead of shutting them out. When I was first saved I was bounced around like a ping pong ball listening to radio preachers. It took awhile and I developed discernment - it was a long and painful road. Now I want to preserve all those years I spent in the wilderness - and that means not believing everything that pastors teach. I paid too high of a price to get to where I am with God. I had zero help - my parents, my husband, my siblings, my friends, my neighbors - were all unbelievers. I had a hard road. What angered me was that I learned that my great grandfather was a pastor - and my forbears dropped the ball and didn't pass on the faith. I was raised Catholic.

For instance - I've talked to others on here who are convinced that Trump is Making America Great Again - God opened my eyes that he's not. I studied demonology alongside of the bible - a topic that should have been the furthest from me - indeed in my younger years was the furthest from me. But I was attacked early on - bad. Following that God made me deal with highly manipulative, sneaky people who had the stamp of satan upon them - they were undoubtedly in his kingdom. I was further forced to learn about how to recognize sneaky, sly acts. During that time I realized that God was having me develop discernment. In fact a bible teacher later remarked on it. Fast forward to now. I know that Freemasons communicate using hand signs - CP knows it too and saw a "Jewish" preacher throwing Freemason hand signs. It's in your face if you learn to recognize it. I looked it all up and researched past presidents and was able to find all of them back to Reagan throwing the same hand signs. All of Hollywood does too.

Chuck Baldwin had the scales fall from his eyes about Trump - which makes me see that he has astute discernment because my eyes have also been opened to Trump's deception. The wars are all a lie - we've been lied to.

At the point I'm at now I'm walking circumspectly - trying to find what is the truth - no matter what it is. Whether Israel is a counterfeit. It seems to invoke strong reactions on here. I think we should at least look at the evidence and study it carefully. If no one else does then I will.

I think every single one of us would do well to question everything. You...or I...could be wrong.

My motivation is that America keeps involved in wars that are apparently being ordered by Israel. I'm wondering if these wars are being directed by satanists - illuminati - instead of their being a "holy war" as we've been led to believe. We're told God protected little Israel from her enemies - that's what the pastor at bible study told me. But I've seen first hand how a soldier comes back with TBI - and how it destroys their life and their families lives. All for what?

I'm just questioning all this. Rather than attacking me - why don't you look into it to see if there is any truth in it. Truth isn't afraid to be held up to the light. But I find that if you question anything about Israel you're automatically accused of anti-semitism. I didn't even know what the word meant until this year! Point being I don't know enough even about it to be anti-semitic. What I am is a Berean. Truth has no fear in being held up to the light.

Proverbs 23:23

“Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.”

[/QUOTE]

In general, talking to people about religion, I have found that the argument that The Jews are not Jews based on DNA has been tied to Social Darwinism, and has most been used by Muslims. Muslims who need to push the Jewish people into the the sea based on their cult.

 

[Man on Fire]

There is a Scripture verse that states that Christians are the Jews but my internet is down this morning and I can't find it.

You said that you were thrown off a forum for questioning something about the Jews and yet you're hurling accusations of anti-semitism at me. How did it feel when it was done to you?

People seem to get upset whenever you question anything about Israel. I'm sorry but God told me to be a Berean and that's who I'm going to follow.

I know that God opened my eyes up to a lot this past year and my prayer is that the same will happen to others. I know that Chuck Baldwin had his eyes opened - because it happened to me and he sees the same things.

All I know is that if people are so afraid to hold something up to the light then there is usually a reason. Truth has no fear of the light.

Don't feel attacked. You are not. This is a sensitive subject matter, and it has been hard to pull away all the illusions around it.

In Post #227 you were not following me? What didn't you understand?

 

[Soverign Grace]

Not all Talmudic Jews are Zionists.

On top of society, there may have been a ruling class. In Ancient Egypt or Babylon, this may have been Nobles and Priests or Wisemen. In Medieval France, there was a Noble Class, and the Catholic Priests were in a class of their own. Part of being in a ruling class may have been working to Shepherd people.

The Lord is a Shepherd. (Psalms 23) God is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. God has a Rod and a Staff. In a similar way, a mummy of a Pharaoh may have had a Rod and a Staff? Part of the mindset of someone in a ruling class may have been "Working to keep order by shepherding people." This isn't necessarily evil. It depends on who is in power.

I am a certified teacher. As part of my teacher training I took a class called Education Psychology. Educational Psychology was about using certain psychological techniques to keep good order in the classroom, and help kids learn. A system or rewards and discipline is created. A teacher who was good at classroom management may have been like a Shepherd, he students his flock. Was he a good or a bad shepherd? Was he effective? Was he of God?

Part of understanding Shepherding is understanding God's left and right hands.

Previous Post: "God's Left and Right Hands."

George W. Bush and John Kerry were two very different people so it seemed? They were both Skull and Bones. Is there some connection? They were both Globalists like Globalist Hillary Clinton. They may have seemed like two very different people playing different roles, but they may have been motivated towards Globalism, and some sort of Globalist entity, like banks or whatever, have been working to shepherd mankind to something.

When you say that a Talmudic Jew proposed the idea that Jews were not Jews based on DNA, was that an individual with an opinion, or someone serving the Jewish community in some context towards some purpose? That gets into Conspiracy. Shepherding, just like a teacher using Educational Psychology towards maintaining good order in his classroom, is a very real thing. On the top, in the ruling class, there have been people who have been aware of it in some context.

I'm uncertain of the direction that you're taking? I'm not really grasping it. I took psychology in college - I didn't get my degree due to circumstances. I know that the powers that be use a lot of mass psychology on people. That's what alarms me because it's working - I see so many falling for the Trump deception. All the misdirection with the impeachment hearings is a way to draw the attention away from the police state being implemented.

Bush, Kerry, Clinton - all are in the same club - it's the Hegelian Dialectic played on the American fools over and over and over. Haven't you realized that you and your children are getting poorer and everything is getting more expensive. It's all by design. There is a depopulation agenda.

I can't look up the information due to my internet acting up. You can look it up yourself.

I'm at the point of holding everything up to the light. I think as the end times draw near we're going to see many increased deceptions and I see too many gullible Christians.

When one of my kids was small they were outside and quickly brought the dogs into the house. I yelled at them for bringing the dogs in since I was cleaning. I'll never forget the little innocent yet scared face that looked up at me: "There's a raccoon out there!" I knew it was daytime and raccoons don't come out. I disgustedly said "There is no raccoon out there!" My child said "yes! there is!" I went and looked and there was a rabid raccoon running on it's hind legs around our yard.

My point being: we should listen to other views because they may be right. Instead of hurling "anti-semitic!" slurs at people who don't even know enough about it to even wear the label!

Why are Christians so afraid to hold this up to the light? Is it years of ingrained teaching? I don't know.

Truth can be held up to the light. I think we should hold up these views to the light.

 

[Soverign Grace]

In general, talking to people about religion, I have found that the argument that The Jews are not Jews based on DNA has been tied to Social Darwinism, and has most been used by Muslims. Muslims who need to push the Jewish people into the the sea based on their cult.[/QUOTE]

That could very well be. I was reading a site written by a Jew: Real Jew News. I'd give you the link by my internet won't let me.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Don't feel attacked. You are not. This is a sensitive subject matter, and it has been hard to pull away all the illusions around it.

In Post #227 you were not following me? What didn't you understand?

I'm seeing this is a very sensitive subject - and questioning anything about Israel seems akin to being accused of being a heretic.

I didn't grasp any of the thoughts you stated. I'm having a difficult morning pain-wise so that adds to it.

My entire point in all this is that we should look to see if Pastor Chuck Baldwin and other pastors are onto something about Israel possibly being a con job.

Ask yourself: What if it's true?

Could it be that we supported a satanic version of what we previously thought was a holy place? I'm already appalled that Christians care nothing for innocent Syrians who are having bombs dropped on them!

Where is your Christian compassion????

I live in a lot of pain so maybe I'm more acutely aware of what pain really feels like - and if you see some of the photos they're horrible - children with limbs blown off.

And while I'm at it - what about all this aid that is supposedly going to Africa? A family member just showed me a disease they're studying in college that those in Africa get. They showed me a horrid photo of the living conditions there. I thought where is all this aid we've supposedly been giving?

And something else: Americans had best get it in their minds that is what is in store for us.

 

[Soverign Grace]

I have to come back to this topic when my internet gets working so I can look things up. As Christians though I don't think that we should shy away from seeing if Chuck Baldwin is right. I've read the guy and he's solid. And it's disgusted me how other pastors have maligned him. Real Christians there.

I'm also aware of being on guard against false teaching - but what if the false teaching is about Israel?

My entire point being truth stands the light test, lies do not.

Shouldn't we hold these issues up to the light and have an open and honest dialogue about it instead of hurling accusations of anti-semitism?

Christ IS the light. We should be able to hold all of this up to the light.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Christians must not be lead astray, the people who took part in wars are not truly Christians, thou shall not Kill ! so many people have been lead astray by the works of Satan.
The works of Satan are so cunning, they work to lead all astray.
A true Christian does not hate anyone, but one should no be under great deceptions !

Deceptions, one such is the word Anti-Semite, a work that is just so vast in it's description but does truly have no real worthy foundation to truly speak of, so it can be used so easy as to mislead. it's a great deception. one of the wonders of the world.

Holocaust is another deception that is played out that only try's to deceives all who do not understand the true Biblical meaning of the word.

To truly educated Christians and true Jews the Word Holocaust actually means 'A burnt offering' ! it's an offering to God !
One should understand that fact and it does not go beyond that line ever, but sure idiots may use the word to mean what they please because they a only dilettantes I am not interested in what such idiots may claim.

IF one uses the word Holocaust to describe the Genocide of the Jews under Hitler, such a one is a Satanist ! such is blasphemy ! it was not a Bunt Offering ! at all, it was Genocide !!!
How stupid can one get !
Fact is that if one claims such is a Holocaust, then one is truly saying that such was ordained by God, in fact !
So Was it gods will ? come now surely !

I say that it was the work of Satan in fact and that such is a Genocide done by man lead astray.

I say that anyone who claims that it was a Holocaust is in grave danger of going to Hell, for saying such a blasphemy to God ! such a one is claiming that it was Gods will in fact, but they maybe to stupid to understand the reality of what is truly involved in all this, because they have been lead astray by the cunning of such Satanist that propagate such lies.

As a my self coming from a Hebrew line, I find such people making the comment of such as being a Holocaust that = burn offering to God as deeply offensive. the audacity ! and unmitigated gall ! of such people.

I agree with Reggie - the works of the evil one are so cunning that we must be on guard.

 

[Man on Fire]

My point being: we should listen to other views because they may be right. Instead of hurling "anti-semitic!" slurs at people who don't even know enough about it to even wear the label!

Why are Christians so afraid to hold this up to the light? Is it years of ingrained teaching? I don't know.

I'm seeing this is a very sensitive subject - and questioning anything about Israel seems akin to being accused of being a heretic.

I didn't grasp any of the thoughts you stated. I'm having a difficult morning pain-wise so that adds to it.

My entire point in all this is that we should look to see if Pastor Chuck Baldwin and other pastors are onto something about Israel possibly being a con job.

Ask yourself: What if it's true?

Could it be that we supported a satanic version of what we previously thought was a holy place? I'm already appalled that Christians care nothing for innocent Syrians who are having bombs dropped on them!

Where is your Christian compassion????

I live in a lot of pain so maybe I'm more acutely aware of what pain really feels like - and if you see some of the photos they're horrible - children with limbs blown off.

And while I'm at it - what about all this aid that is supposedly going to Africa? A family member just showed me a disease they're studying in college that those in Africa get. They showed me a horrid photo of the living conditions there. I thought where is all this aid we've supposedly been giving?

And something else: Americans had best get it in their minds that is what is in store for us.

Christians are to be of one mind. They are to be of a mind of Christ. Given men are of the Spirit of God, have given or seen prophecies around Israel, and those men have the Spirit of God, and other disagree.....those people are not of the spirit. It is a big deal, and one group or the other may be heretics.

Lets look at Chuck Baldwin.

Baldwin argues that“ Zionists heavily influence--if not outright control--the mainstream news media, the major motion picture industry, the popular entertainment industry, mainstream Christian religion, and the U.S. government. I’ll say it straight out: Zionism is not only a “clear and present danger” to the liberties of the American people; it is the BIGGEST danger to the liberties of the American people.[1] Chuck Baldwin - Wikipedia

The Talmud is Jewish writings and saying that were written down around the time of the Babylonian exile, and later more added.......in general. The Pharisees were Talmudists. The Talmud is a Philosophy or a way of thinking.....towards understanding how to read the interpret the Bible. A Platonist, for example, would be a very specific Philosophy and way of thinking. Platonism would be a Heresy. The Talmud gives ways of thought and a way to read the Bible. Talmudic Jews deny Christ, and they have been taught to think in certain way. A Jewish person who denies Christ, and is part of the Jewish Community, would be a Talmudic Jew. Whether they are a scholar and studied the Talmud or not, may not have mattered, a variety of ideas and way to think may have been ingrained in them by being around the community.

Zionism - A movement to re-establish the Jewish State of Israel.

There are Talmudic Jews who are not Zionists and have not agreed. Zionism, as an ideology, has little to due with Jews owning World Banks, or the media, and a good argument could be made, that Jews in America are "Less-Jewish" for not being in Israel right now. Part of Zionism would be Jewish Nationalism. A French Nationalist should like to see the Jewish people reestablished, in their own country, with their own institutions, for example? I don't know that the Talmudic Jews belong in Hollywood in a way that is disproportionate to the Population. Maybe there needs to be a kind of affirmative action......or their sins are exposed in a sudden way like Harvey Weinstein's?

Reading some more of Chuck Baldwin, he seems to be viewing Zionism, and world movements in politics, under a lens that is not God's lens. He is not looking at movements in terms of the Bible and the Prophets.

 

[Soverign Grace]

You're not the only person on the internet who grasps conspiracy theories. You just act like it.

Sorry if I act that way - it's unintentional.

I'm just studying Scripture and comparing it with what God has opened my eyes to this past year. I had more time on my hands because I was injured a few years ago and all I had was my laptop and endless hours. I thought maybe God will use what appeared on the surface as something bad - for something good.

What I'm seeing are pastors such as Chuck Baldwin who are saying that the nation of Israel is a deception. I think instead of dismissing someone, or calling them a tin foil hat wearer we should see if there is any truth to what they're saying. I went all through the tin-foil hat remarks when I became a Christian.

Truth should never be afraid of being held up to the light. Fear is what causes some to fling accusations of "anti-semitism" even when they're unjustified. It's fear of having what you've believed challenged. But aren't we told to be Bereans?

 

[Soverign Grace]

Christians are to be of one mind. They are to be of a mind of Christ. Given men are of the Spirit of God, have given or seen prophecies around Israel, and those men have the Spirit of God, and other disagree.....those people are not of the spirit. It is a big deal, and one group or the other may be heretics.

Lets look at Chuck Baldwin.



The Talmud is Jewish writings and saying that were written down around the time of the Babylonian exile, and later more added.......in general. The Pharisees were Talmudists. The Talmud is a Philosophy or a way of thinking.....towards understanding how to read the interpret the Bible. A Platonist, for example, would be a very specific Philosophy and way of thinking. Platonism would be a Heresy. The Talmud gives ways of thought and a way to read the Bible. Talmudic Jews deny Christ, and they have been taught to think in certain way. A Jewish person who denies Christ, and is part of the Jewish Community, would be a Talmudic Jew. Whether they are a scholar and studied the Talmud or not, may not have mattered, a variety of ideas and way to think may have been ingrained in them by being around the community.

Zionism - A movement to re-establish the Jewish State of Israel.

There are Talmudic Jews who are not Zionists and have not agreed. Zionism, as an ideology, has little to due with Jews owning World Banks, or the media, and a good argument could be made, that Jews in America are "Less-Jewish" for not being in Israel right now. Part of Zionism would be Jewish Nationalism. A French Nationalist should like to see the Jewish people reestablished, in their own country, with their own institutions, for example? I don't know that the Talmudic Jews belong in Hollywood in a way that is disproportionate to the Population. Maybe there needs to be a kind of affirmative action......or their sins are exposed in a sudden way like Harvey Weinstein's?

Reading some more of Chuck Baldwin, he seems to be viewing Zionism, and world movements in politics, under a lens that is not God's lens. He is not looking at movements in terms of the Bible and the Prophets.

I agree that Christians are to be of one mind - we are to have the mind of Christ. But what I've noted is that every Christian you encounter (if they indeed are a Christian born of the Spirit and not a tare) is in a different phase of growth. When I became a new believer I was more pliable - meaning I believed what was taught to me. As I matured in the faith and studied the bible more, my views were more solidly grounded in what the Word said. I now can recognize false teaching - when I flip on the TV and hear the prosperity preachers I immediately turn them off, or if I hear something else said that I know is false.

My point being: you don't know how much someone else has studied Scripture and where they're at in their spiritual walk. They may not have studied as in-depth as you have on a specific topic, or they may have studied more.

Let's look at Chuck Baldwin: I 100% believe that the news media is owned and controlled by the illuminati. During the long days of research I learned how they have gotten control of the media, education, the Vatican, and many pastors = all to implement the New World Order. If you don't know this yet I strongly urge you to do in-depth research because after many many hours of research I believe it's true. A good place to start is Henry Makow. There is someone on here who is a school teacher who has spoken about Common Core. A woman came to work for my husband formerly worked at a news station and told him it's all controlled what is presented to the public. After 9-11 my husband and his men all remarked that the towers fell as if by controlled demolition - so here are men with cumulative years of construction experience making a remark. I met a cop in a pharmacy who told me our own government did it. So I learned about "false flags." Later I met Brakelite and he introduced me to Walter Veith's videos. I continued researching online and reading a lot of Henry Makow. So I've pieced together small clues I've gotten here and there.

Everything that I've learned up until this point shows me that Chuck Baldwin has discernment. Why? Because he sees through Donald Trump and a lot of other deceptions. So does Henry Makow. So does Tim Brown. So do others I've encountered during searches, and so do I. If you really look into Trump's background you'll see he's uniquely connected to the elite: Clintons, Jeffrey Epstein, and others. An alleged victim tied with Epstein claims Trump raped her. (I know anyone can come out of the woodwork but Trump IS connected to Epstein.) He admits on video (you can find it online) that he's a Freemason. When you research it you find Freemasons are satanic. When you further research it you find that Freemasons communicate using secret hand signs and handshakes. Trump repeatedly flashes the illuminati/ Freemason triple six and the triangle - which is actually a portal for the demonic.

Trump does not exhibit any Christian traits: humbleness, teachableness, love - he's brash, a braggart, and openly spoke of touching women intimately and when asked about his christianity, nothing solid comes out of his mouth. Why? I don't think he's been spiritually reborn. Some argue that he's a "baby" Christian. I just don't believe it. Trump is saying one thing and doing another yet Christians continually support whatever he does. It's willful ignorance.

There is just so much that I don't have the energy to review again but if you search it you'll find what I have. Everything being presented to the public is a con - the impeachment hearings - it's all clever distraction so Americans/ Christians won't see that Trump is implementing a police state that rivals Nazi Germany.

When I get Chuck Baldwins newsletter I find him to be forthright.

What I'm saying bottom line is: instead of rejecting someone outright, accusing them of anti-semitism, or poking fun of them (as some "pastors" have done) why not hold what they're saying up to the light to see if it's true?

I've seen so many reject pastors like him outright, dismiss him as a heretic, and toss out all the tin foil hat remarks that are so unnecessary - but what if he's right???

If I had listened to others early on and rejected Christianity, where would I be? At the very least we should look to see if it's the truth.

The star that the nation of Israel flies is the SATANIC STAR. I have come to believe this 100%. So if the star flying in Israel is SATANIC what does that tell you about the nation itself? I don't know yet; I'm still learning, but this in and of itself is highly troubling:

The Star Of David Deception


Christians Should Not Support The Zionist State Of Israel

Satan's Counterfeit Israel, Antichrist & World Rule

I'm currently reading this:

Modern Israel and the Strong Delusion of the Christian Elect


I'm uncertain as yet what the truth is, but we have been WARNED of the falling away. I think it's worth looking at this to see if we've been deceived. But hurling insults "anti-semite!!!" "get your tin-foil-hat" and other names block any meaningful dialogue. I want the truth and I don't want to be deceived - that's why I study on my own.

 

[Soverign Grace]

You cannot equate a handful of multi-billionaire Jews (perhaps a half-dozen to a dozen) who control the banking system and world events, with all the other Jews who do not, and have indeed been oppressed, harassed, persecuted, exiled, massacred, and killed.

Jews have experienced GENOCIDE and that is a historical fact. The Holocaust is also a historical fact, and we may not even know the full extent of it, since every Jew was not always recorded in every country where they were killed.

Christians must stand firmly against Anti-Semitism and hatred for Jews. Christians themselves are hated and persecuted in many lands.

Enoch no one is condemning the Jews here. It's horribly wrong to even say that is what's happening and to cast aspersions and slurs of "anti-semitic". It's like a record being played on queue: as soon as anyone says anything at all about the nation of Israel the automatic response comes out: ANTI-SEMITE!!! In psychology it's called "Classic Conditioning."

At least take a look at what Chuck Baldwin and others say. What if you've been deceived? Truth can be held up to the light; indeed should be.

I'm not saying that I have the truth - I'm still seeking it, but I do know 100% that the "star of David" flying over Israel is a satanic star. A cursory search shows that. So if a satanic star is being flown over this alleged holy nation, then what does that tell us? Logic should kick in.

We're told that a "great falling away" will happen in the end times. We should be very on guard against this. I'm not sure what the truth is but I think we should not be afraid to look at other pastoral viewpoints:

https://www.excelsiorspringschurch.com/files/Israel - The Synagogue of Satan_0.PDF

1 Thessalonians 5:21

“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”

 

[Man on Fire]

I agree that Christians are to be of one mind - we are to have the mind of Christ. But what I've noted is that every Christian you encounter (if they indeed are a Christian born of the Spirit and not a tare) is in a different phase of growth. When I became a new believer I was more pliable - meaning I believed what was taught to me. As I matured in the faith and studied the bible more, my views were more solidly grounded in what the Word said. I now can recognize false teaching - when I flip on the TV and hear the prosperity preachers I immediately turn them off, or if I hear something else said that I know is false.

The star that the nation of Israel flies is the SATANIC STAR.

You are on a different stage of growth. I have been a subject matter expert on Spiritual Warfare, the Spiritual, and Spiritual things.

For example, you stated the Star of David is a SATANIC STAR? You been trying to give something to Satan. Satan has been a liar and a thief. What has The Star of David, the symbol, meant to God?

I have found that a lot of Ex-Freemasons who ended Evangelical Christians, have been very passionate about what they believe to be "Illuminati," "Freemasonry," and "Satanic" when in fact, they were giving things to Satan.

For example, a Pentagram was an early Christian symbol representing the five wounds of Christ. A Pentagram is found on Sir Gawain's Shield. At some point, a Pentagram became referenced to Paganism, and Christians let go of it as a symbol to the point where Occult Group "The Golden Dawn" helped create Wicca, and a Pentagram has been part of their symbolism. What does a Pentagram mean to God? This has been an example, of Spiritual Warfare, and people giving things to Satan.

Another example may be the hand signs that Jesus and early Christians and Saints used in pictures. The Romans had a system of symbols, and their religion, their paganism, was part of the hand signs. Part of Spiritual Warfare has been a war of words or a war of thoughts.

5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. (2 Corinthians 10:5

In many Roman minds, when Christianity was developing, those hand signs had pagan meaning. Part of Spiritual Warfare, Christians with the Spirit of God shared what they may have meant to God.

Article: What Do the Hand Gestures in Icons Mean?

Holding up what you saying to the Light, there may be some truth there, but ultimately you are way to impassioned in the wrong way, asserting false things to be true, and trying to give things to Satan. You need to stop.

 

[Man on Fire]

Another easy example of similar spiritual warfare?

What does an upside-down cross mean? In some movies and media, the upside-down cross has been referenced as a "Symbol of the devil." It is not. It is a Saint Peter's Cross. Saint Peter, not believing he was worthy to die as his teacher asked to be crucified upside down.

In people's minds, given they had no knowledge of Saint Peter's Cross, or Spiritual Warfare, how did they perceive the meaning of an upside down cross?

God has been around for a long time. On some level, there may have been knowledgeable deceivers. People who knew Church history, who knew God, and chose something else. People who had motive to change how people perceived themselves, perceived certain symbols, and perceived God, towards some luciferian or wrong, selfish purpose.

 

[Enoch111]

So if a satanic star is being flown over this alleged holy nation, then what does that tell us? Logic should kick in.

The problem is that you have forgotten all about Christian *logic*. I have stated over and over again that the SECULAR NATION-STATE of Israel is purely political. NOT A HOLY NATION. Therefore the Star of David (which is in their flag) has nothing to do with our attitude to Jews. Unbelieving Jews are spiritually blind and deceived. But that does NOT mean that Jews should be hated and Israel should be hated.

Today almost the whole world hates Israel and the Jews within Israel. Even Left-Liberal Jews in the USA hate Trump, Netanyahu, and Israel! And George Soros -- a Hungarian Jew -- is a very evil ex-Nazi who is spending his billions to undermine America, Israel, Trump, and Conservatives! Think about that. This man should have been put behind bars a long time ago. The handful of multi-billionaire Jews who control banking and world affairs are servants of Satan working for the slavery of the whole world under Satan's New World Order. So we should not be surprised if the Star of David is also *the star of your [Jewish] god Remphan*.

 

[Soverign Grace]

"why would they do that? "
My guess is they want to know their "base" and how they respond to politics? For their talking points. For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many still think their fave pols are speaking truth. I choose not to be concerned with the cares of this world. I will pray for all leaders, as a group and that's about it.

The pastor at bible study just brought this up Nancy - that we're to pray for our leaders. I wasn't but since he told us that I began praying for them. I don't trust them - and as you say I don't understand why anyone does - we've been lied to again and again. But for whatever reason God allows them to hold a position when a Christian should hold it I don't understand but I'll pray for them. We have really come to the point of them behaving insanely. I can't stand to even listen to them lie on TV. They make me sick actually.

 

[Nancy]

The pastor at bible study just brought this up Nancy - that we're to pray for our leaders. I wasn't but since he told us that I began praying for them. I don't trust them - and as you say I don't understand why anyone does - we've been lied to again and again. But for whatever reason God allows them to hold a position when a Christian should hold it I don't understand but I'll pray for them. We have really come to the point of them behaving insanely. I can't stand to even listen to them lie on TV. They make me sick actually.

Yes indeed...it makes me sick too and that is why I never have the tv on. Christ will be and is our savior, not politicians anyhow. This world will only get worse and never better until He comes and reigns. AMEN!!!!!

 

[Soverign Grace]

Another easy example of similar spiritual warfare?

What does an upside-down cross mean? In some movies and media, the upside-down cross has been referenced as a "Symbol of the devil." It is not. It is a Saint Peter's Cross. Saint Peter, not believing he was worthy to die as his teacher asked to be crucified upside down.

In people's minds, given they had no knowledge of Saint Peter's Cross, or Spiritual Warfare, how did they perceive the meaning of an upside down cross?

God has been around for a long time. On some level, there may have been knowledgeable deceivers. People who knew Church history, who knew God, and chose something else. People who had motive to change how people perceived themselves, perceived certain symbols, and perceived God, towards some luciferian or wrong, selfish purpose.

I have never heard an upside down referred to as St. Peter's cross. I am aware of his being hung upside down. Irregardless of who says what I'd avoid it.

I'm not really following you?