IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

[Sister-n-Christ]

My @Sister-n-Christ

Therefore anyone whose name is not found in the Lamb's Book of Life will not be part of the First Resurrection and Rapture.

Yes or No

Yes.

 

[Fred J]

Would you please review Revelation chapter 6 and let me know where(if any) Christ comes down, swoops UP the church/bride and then comes back with His Church/Bride to execute Wrath.

Thank You @Fred J and Shalom

This is not about swooping, but ascended martyrs for the first time under the alter in Heaven, meeting and cried out to the Lord.

They were then given white robes and told to rest until the other fellowservants and brethren make it as well.

Remember during the rapture of the church only the ready saints are taken up, and ones not are left behind.

The parable of the 10 virgins explains this, or the other, one will be taken and the other left. (Matthew 24:40-42)

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[keithr]

You take a verse from Revelation — chapter 14 — rip it from context, assign it a meaning Paul never gave it, claim it's ...

Err, may I point out that the apostle Paul died around 64/65 AD whereas the Book of Revelation was written in around 95 AD, so Paul could not have had any opinion or interpretation of it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You can joke about “Scofield spirits” all you want — but it’s your theology that’s allergic to the Cross. You’re laughing because the foundation is crumbling under your feet, and you know it.

Let’s talk Revelation 14:14. You’re clinging to a single apocalyptic image — ripped out of context — while ignoring the entire covenantal frame Christ already established.

“Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand.” — Revelation 14:14

Guess what?

That’s Jesus — not your Scofield-style reaper for national Israel, but the King of the New Covenant, crowned and ready to gather His own.

This isn’t some “Jewish harvest” fantasy you pulled from Clarence Larkin’s prophecy coloring book. This is Matthew 13 in full bloom:

“The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels... The Son of Man will send His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers.” — Matthew 13:39–41

Not two harvests. Not Jewish and Gentile crops. One field. One Kingdom. One Christ.
But your system can’t handle that. You need dual timelines. Need two peoples. Need that Scofield sneeze — because without it, your entire theology turns to dust.

And it is dust.

“He has made the two one.” — Ephesians 2:14
“There is no distinction between Jew and Greek.” — Romans 10:12
“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed.” — Galatians 3:29

Those verses don’t just “challenge” your position — they obliterate it.
Your two-track gospel isn’t biblical. It’s blasphemous.

You think I “can’t interpret Rev 14:14”? I just did — but you won’t accept it unless it’s filtered through Scofield’s margins and Darby’s delusion.

You’re not defending Jesus. You’re defending a timeline.
A timeline that demotes the Cross, sidelines the Church, and resurrects a covenant God fulfilled 2,000 years ago.

Let me make this plain:

Jesus doesn’t return to reboot the Mosaic Law.

He doesn’t gather people based on DNA.

He doesn’t reinstitute animal sacrifices, a third temple, or a land-based theocracy.

“Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” — Romans 10:4
You don’t need a rebuilt temple.
You need repentance.

And as for Revelation 2:9?

“They say they are Jews and are not, but lie — and are a synagogue of Satan.”

I didn’t write it.
But I will stand on it.

You can keep sneezing out “Scoff-field” if that’s all you’ve got.
But I’ll keep preaching Christ — the only harvest that matters, the only return that’s coming, and the only covenant that still stands.

Choose your foundation:

Christ’s blood.
Or Scofield’s notes.

Only one will survive the fire.

Still waiting on you to unpack it.
Pssst...you need to cleverly show that the 144k are not Jewish firstfruits, and that Paul was kidding in romans 11 about the jews being cut off for a season, then GRAFTED BACK IN.

So your deal is without traction FROM YOUR STARTING PLACE.

Dear Lord thank you I was not under those same teachers as this guy.
I really feel for you friend.
You are totally decieved.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Err, may I point out that the apostle Paul died around 64/65 AD whereas the Book of Revelation was written in around 95 AD, so Paul could not have had any opinion or interpretation of it.

Yes, Paul was martyred decades before John penned Revelation.
 But to suggest this exempts Revelation from Pauline theology is to ignore the very DNA of the New Testament.

Paul didn’t need to interpret Revelation —
 Revelation was born out of what Paul already revealed.

It is not an appendix to the Gospel. It is the crescendo of it.

Justification by faith — Paul declared it.

The mystery of the Church — Paul unveiled it.

The tearing down of the wall between Jew and Gentile — Paul preached it.

The enthronement of Christ above every throne, dominion, and principality — Paul thundered it from prison cells.

Revelation doesn’t correct Paul — it confirms him. And yet somehow, Scofield — a 20th-century lawyer & conman with Zionist benefactors — ends up holding the keys to interpret the final book of Scripture?!? His study notes — written 1,900 years after the apostles — are treated as more authoritative than the man who wrote two-thirds of the New Testament? Yikes..

You don’t need to be a theologian to spot the fraud.
 Just a Berean with your Bible open and your idolatry in check. To rip Revelation 14 from its covenantal foundation and build a prophecy cult around it — one Paul never envisioned, and Christ never commissioned — isn’t just a mistake.
 It’s doctrinal vandalism. You’re not rightly dividing the Word.
 You’re disfiguring the Bride. 
You’re swinging Scofield’s hacksaw in the sanctuary of God.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Still waiting on you to unpack it.
Pssst...you need to cleverly show that the 144k are not Jewish firstfruits, and that Paul was kidding in romans 11 about the jews being cut off for a season, then GRAFTED BACK IN.

So your deal is without traction FROM YOUR STARTING PLACE.

Dear Lord thank you I was not under those same teachers as this guy.
I really feel for you friend.
You are totally decieved.

Still waiting on me to unpack it?
I just laid out a biblical demolition of your entire system above — line by line, covenant by covenant, verse by verse to the point a 12 year old should've been able to grasp it.

What you’re calling a “starting place” is actually the finish line — the Cross, where every shadow, every type, and every Mosaic placeholder was fulfilled in the blood of the Lamb.

You want to talk about Revelation 14 and the 144,000?
You still think “Jewish firstfruits” means DNA, not faith?

Hebrews 12:23 calls the Church “the firstborn.”
James 1:18 says He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.
And Paul? He’s not “kidding” in Romans 11 — he’s describing faithful remnant theology, not a time-traveling reinstallation of national Israel as if Pentecost never happened.

The “grafting back in” isn't about bloodlines.
It’s about belief.
The moment you make it about race instead of grace, you’ve crucified Christ all over again and declared the Cross insufficient.

Your whole system needs a “pause button” on the Gospel —
as if the Church was a parenthesis,
as if Christ was a substitute teacher until the real class (ethnic Israel) came back.

But Jesus isn’t a footnote.
He’s the fulfillment.

“He is our peace, who has made the two one… abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments.” — Ephesians 2:14–15

One new man.
Not two covenants.
Not two peoples.
Not two timelines.

And you dare say you “thank God you weren’t taught like me”?
No — you should fall on your face and thank God He gave you another chance to hear the truth today.
Because Scofield didn’t save you. Zionism didn’t redeem you.
Jesus Christ did — or you’re still in your sins.

“Without Me, you can do nothing.” — John 15:5

So let me say it plain one more time, for those still clinging to prophecy charts and rabbinic dreams:

Jesus is not coming back to finish Moses’ job.
He’s coming back to reign — as King of the one Body, the one Bride, the one Kingdom.
Not to re-divide what He already made whole.

Scofield lied.
Darby lied.
The Cross never did.

You want traction?
Start at Calvary — not Tel Aviv.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Still waiting on me to unpack it?
I just laid out a biblical demolition of your entire system above — line by line, covenant by covenant, verse by verse to the point a 12 year old should've been able to grasp it.

What you’re calling a “starting place” is actually the finish line — the Cross, where every shadow, every type, and every Mosaic placeholder was fulfilled in the blood of the Lamb.

You want to talk about Revelation 14 and the 144,000?
You still think “Jewish firstfruits” means DNA, not faith?

Hebrews 12:23 calls the Church “the firstborn.”
James 1:18 says He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.
And Paul? He’s not “kidding” in Romans 11 — he’s describing faithful remnant theology, not a time-traveling reinstallation of national Israel as if Pentecost never happened.

The “grafting back in” isn't about bloodlines.
It’s about belief.
The moment you make it about race instead of grace, you’ve crucified Christ all over again and declared the Cross insufficient.

Your whole system needs a “pause button” on the Gospel —
as if the Church was a parenthesis,
as if Christ was a substitute teacher until the real class (ethnic Israel) came back.

But Jesus isn’t a footnote.
He’s the fulfillment.

“He is our peace, who has made the two one… abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments.” — Ephesians 2:14–15

One new man.
Not two covenants.
Not two peoples.
Not two timelines.

And you dare say you “thank God you weren’t taught like me”?
No — you should fall on your face and thank God He gave you another chance to hear the truth today.
Because Scofield didn’t save you. Zionism didn’t redeem you.
Jesus Christ did — or you’re still in your sins.

“Without Me, you can do nothing.” — John 15:5

So let me say it plain one more time, for those still clinging to prophecy charts and rabbinic dreams:

Jesus is not coming back to finish Moses’ job.
He’s coming back to reign — as King of the one Body, the one Bride, the one Kingdom.
Not to re-divide what He already made whole.

Scofield lied.
Darby lied.
The Cross never did.

You want traction?
Start at Calvary — not Tel Aviv.

Lol
Paul made the distinction
Sorry you can't believe what is written.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Lol
Paul made the distinction
Sorry you can't believe what is written.

“Paul made the distinction.”
Yes — between law and grace, flesh and spirit, shadow and fulfillment — not between two separate peoples of God.

What Paul didn’t do is invent your Scofield two-track gospel where Jesus takes a backseat to DNA and the Church is just a halftime show.

“There is no distinction between Jew and Greek.” — Romans 10:12
“He has made the two one.” — Ephesians 2:14
“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed.” — Galatians 3:29

That's Paul.
Your rejection of it isn’t faithfulness — it’s unbelief dressed in prophecy chart cosplay.

“Sorry you can't believe what is written”?
No — I believe exactly what’s written.
You believe what’s footnoted.

And honestly?
To be this unreachable, you must’ve been bottle-fed Scofield blasphemy since you were a kid — raised on rapture fiction and Zionist maps instead of the actual Gospel.

Keep laughing.
The Sanhedrin laughed too — until the tomb cracked open.