IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?
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This is not about swooping, but ascended martyrs for the first time under the alter in Heaven, meeting and cried out to the Lord.
They were then given white robes and told to rest until the other fellowservants and brethren make it as well.
Remember during the rapture of the church only the ready saints are taken up, and ones not are left behind.
The parable of the 10 virgins explains this, or the other, one will be taken and the other left. (Matthew 24:40-42)
Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ
Err, may I point out that the apostle Paul died around 64/65 AD whereas the Book of Revelation was written in around 95 AD, so Paul could not have had any opinion or interpretation of it.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Still waiting on you to unpack it.
Pssst...you need to cleverly show that the 144k are not Jewish firstfruits, and that Paul was kidding in romans 11 about the jews being cut off for a season, then GRAFTED BACK IN.
So your deal is without traction FROM YOUR STARTING PLACE.
Dear Lord thank you I was not under those same teachers as this guy.
I really feel for you friend.
You are totally decieved.
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
Yes, Paul was martyred decades before John penned Revelation. But to suggest this exempts Revelation from Pauline theology is to ignore the very DNA of the New Testament.
Paul didn’t need to interpret Revelation — Revelation was born out of what Paul already revealed.
It is not an appendix to the Gospel. It is the crescendo of it.
Justification by faith — Paul declared it.
The mystery of the Church — Paul unveiled it.
The tearing down of the wall between Jew and Gentile — Paul preached it.
The enthronement of Christ above every throne, dominion, and principality — Paul thundered it from prison cells.
Revelation doesn’t correct Paul — it confirms him. And yet somehow, Scofield — a 20th-century lawyer & conman with Zionist benefactors — ends up holding the keys to interpret the final book of Scripture?!? His study notes — written 1,900 years after the apostles — are treated as more authoritative than the man who wrote two-thirds of the New Testament?
Yikes.. You don’t need to be a theologian to spot the fraud. Just a Berean with your Bible open and your idolatry in check. To rip Revelation 14 from its covenantal foundation and build a prophecy cult around it — one Paul never envisioned, and Christ never commissioned — isn’t just a mistake. It’s doctrinal vandalism. You’re not rightly dividing the Word. You’re disfiguring the Bride. You’re swinging Scofield’s hacksaw in the sanctuary of God.
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
Still waiting on me to unpack it?
I just laid out a biblical demolition of your entire system above — line by line, covenant by covenant, verse by verse to the point a 12 year old should've been able to grasp it.
What you’re calling a “starting place” is actually the finish line — the Cross, where every shadow, every type, and every Mosaic placeholder was fulfilled in the blood of the Lamb.
You want to talk about Revelation 14 and the 144,000?
You still think “Jewish firstfruits” means DNA, not faith?
Hebrews 12:23 calls the Church “the firstborn.”
James 1:18 says He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.
And Paul? He’s not “kidding” in Romans 11 — he’s describing faithful remnant theology, not a time-traveling reinstallation of national Israel as if Pentecost never happened.
The “grafting back in” isn't about bloodlines.
It’s about belief.
The moment you make it about race instead of grace, you’ve crucified Christ all over again and declared the Cross insufficient.
Your whole system needs a “pause button” on the Gospel —
as if the Church was a parenthesis,
as if Christ was a substitute teacher until the real class (ethnic Israel) came back.
But Jesus isn’t a footnote.
He’s the fulfillment.
“He is our peace, who has made the two one… abolishing in His flesh the law of commandments.” — Ephesians 2:14–15
One new man.
Not two covenants.
Not two peoples.
Not two timelines.
And you dare say you “thank God you weren’t taught like me”?
No — you should fall on your face and thank God He gave you another chance to hear the truth today.
Because Scofield didn’t save you. Zionism didn’t redeem you.
Jesus Christ did — or you’re still in your sins.
“Without Me, you can do nothing.” — John 15:5
So let me say it plain one more time, for those still clinging to prophecy charts and rabbinic dreams:
Jesus is not coming back to finish Moses’ job.
He’s coming back to reign — as King of the one Body, the one Bride, the one Kingdom.
Not to re-divide what He already made whole.
Scofield lied.
Darby lied.
The Cross never did.
You want traction?
Start at Calvary — not Tel Aviv.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
“Paul made the distinction.”
Yes — between law and grace, flesh and spirit, shadow and fulfillment — not between two separate peoples of God.
What Paul didn’t do is invent your Scofield two-track gospel where Jesus takes a backseat to DNA and the Church is just a halftime show.
“There is no distinction between Jew and Greek.” — Romans 10:12
“He is our peace, who has made the two one.” — Ephesians 2:14
“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed.” — Galatians 3:29
Your system needs those distinctions.
It depends on them.
It can’t breathe without them.
Because the moment you admit Christ made the two one — your entire dispensational machine chokes and collapses.
If there’s no division, there’s no two-track plan.
If Jew and Gentile are united in Christ, your charts are garbage, your timelines are fantasy, and your Zionist theology gets buried under the rubble of Calvary.
The Gospel doesn’t accommodate your distinctions.
It obliterates them.
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I have not commented on Revelation 14 in this thread. You're confusing me with somebody else.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Interesting that you can not unpack anything concerning the Jew.
Sad actually
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
I gave you the Jew — in Romans, Ephesians, Galatians, James, and Hebrews.
The only thing I didn’t give you was the lie you’re still trying to defend:
that God’s promises ride on DNA, not the blood of Christ.
You didn’t refute my post.
You didn’t even touch it.
You just dismissed it like a child plugging his ears — because it demolished the sandcastle you were taught to worship.
If you really cared about the Jew, you’d preach the Gospel to him —
not hand him Scofield’s prophecy chart and tell him he doesn’t need Jesus yet.
And what makes this whole charade even more laughable is the fact that over 97% of the people in the modern state of Rothschild’s False Israel™ aren’t even “ethnic Jews” by your own Scofield standards.
The people you call “Jews” today are mostly Ashkenazi and Sephardic, not ancient Hebrews.
Ashkenazi means Eastern European — Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Germany.
They descend from Khazarian converts, not from Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob.
Sephardic Jews come from Spain, Portugal, and North Africa.
They’re not from the tribes of Israel either.
The Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D., and with it — all tribal genealogies.
No one alive today can prove they’re from Judah, Levi, or Benjamin. No one.
Paul could — because he lived before 70 A.D.
You? You’re guessing based on a last name, a hat, and a man-made religion.
DNA studies confirm that Ashkenazi Jews are genetically closest to Italians, Greeks, and Eastern Europeans.
Not Abrahamic.
Not Semitic.
Not Hebrews.
Just European converts who adopted a religion centuries after the covenant was already fulfilled in Christ.
Practicing modern Judaism doesn’t make someone a biblical Jew.
The Talmud is not the Torah.
The rabbis who wrote it rejected the Messiah and created a religion that openly mocks Him.
Jesus said, “You nullify the Word of God for the sake of your tradition.”
That tradition now defines modern Judaism.
And any religion that denies the Son is not in covenant with the Father — it’s at war with Him.
The modern state of Israel was not founded by prophets.
It was founded by Zionist atheists, socialist revolutionaries, British colonial policy, and Rothschild banking dynasties.
It was approved by the United Nations, not ordained from the throne of David.
It was a geopolitical maneuver, not a divine restoration.
There’s no temple.
No Levitical priesthood.
No Davidic king.
No national repentance.
Only military might, political manipulation, and a total rejection of Jesus Christ.
So let’s be honest.
You’re defending a people who do not descend from Abraham.
Who cannot prove any tribal lineage.
Who reject the Gospel of Christ.
Who follow a rabbinic system that contradicts Moses and the prophets.
Who were installed in the land by globalist bankers and the U.N.
Who silence and persecute Christians within their borders.
And who teach a gospel that denies the Gospel.
Meanwhile, the Bible says:
“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, heirs according to promise.” — Galatians 3:29
“He is not a Jew who is one outwardly... but inwardly, by the Spirit.” — Romans 2:28–29
“Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.” — Romans 9:6
The Church is the Israel of God. — Galatians 6:16
So even if they were ethnic Jews —
if they reject Christ, they have no inheritance.
But they’re not even ethnic Jews.
Which makes this entire charade not just false — but completely absurd.
You’ve been tricked into defending a political counterfeit.
You call them God’s chosen, but they reject the One who chose them.
You’re worshiping a flag, a (false/stolen) bloodline, and a lie.
The true Israel is not a nationalist outpost.
It is the Body of Christ. < If you don't believe this, you don't even follow the Gospel.
One people.
One covenant.
One King.
And He already came.
Every Christian on earth — from the Apostles themselves to the early Church Fathers — taught with unwavering clarity that the Body of Christ is Israel.
Peter believed it.
Paul declared it.
James affirmed it.
John sealed it in Revelation.
Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Athanasius, Augustine — every one of them taught that the true Israel was not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Not a bloodline.
Not a flag.
Not a geopolitical entity — but the Church, born of Christ, purchased by His blood, and sealed by His Spirit.
And then — silence.
Around 1900, a new gospel began to spread — not from the mouth of Christ, but from the pen of John Nelson Darby and the footnotes of Cyrus Scofield.
Suddenly, the Church was no longer the fulfillment — it was a parenthesis.
The Cross wasn’t the finish line — it was a pause button.
Jesus wasn’t the fulfillment of the covenant — He was a placeholder for ethnic Israel’s second chance.
And how convenient.
Just as Scofield’s Bibles were being mass-printed and handed out for free, the Rothschild-funded Zionist movement violently seized Palestine, displaced and killed its inhabitants, and claimed divine right — with Christians cheering from the sidelines, holding their Scofield Study Bibles like they were scripture.
It was never about theology.
It was about programming.
The Church — once militant in doctrine and radiant with truth — was pacified, seduced, and reprogrammed to believe that the very people rejecting Christ were “God’s chosen,” while the Body of Christ itself was now a theological afterthought.
They replaced the Gospel with a flag.
Replaced the covenant with a real estate deal.
And replaced the Cross with a prophecy chart.
If Paul were alive today, he wouldn’t be writing letters.
He’d be flipping pulpits.
Even if Slingblade and Forrest Gump read the entire comment above, they’d come to the obvious conclusion: these fake, European identity thieves are the false Jews of Revelation — the ones ‘who claim they are Jews, but are not, and lie.’
Wake up. Who are you waiting for? They’re not coming — they’re already here. Right in front of your face. Get a clue.
One thing’s for sure — P.T. Barnum was right.
There’s a sucker born every minute…
And Scofield made sure every one of them got a free Bible laced with lies.
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Ok
Just go about Believing that because that's all it is. It's just what you believe no matter what the bible says
Nobody takes a person seriously that can't make a sentence without your scoffing scoff field spirit magic word " Scofield "
One day you will figure out that dead man can't save you.
Nor help you with your nasty spirit.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
YesYes, Paul was martyred decades before John penned Revelation. But to suggest this exempts Revelation from Pauline theology is to ignore the very DNA of the New Testament.
Paul didn’t need to interpret Revelation — Revelation was born out of what Paul already revealed.
It is not an appendix to the Gospel. It is the crescendo of it.
Justification by faith — Paul declared it.
The mystery of the Church — Paul unveiled it.
The tearing down of the wall between Jew and Gentile — Paul preached it.
The enthronement of Christ above every throne, dominion, and principality — Paul thundered it from prison cells.
Revelation doesn’t correct Paul — it confirms him. And yet somehow, Scofield — a 20th-century lawyer & conman with Zionist benefactors — ends up holding the keys to interpret the final book of Scripture?!? His study notes — written 1,900 years after the apostles — are treated as more authoritative than the man who wrote two-thirds of the New Testament?
You don’t need to be a theologian to spot the fraud. Just a Berean with your Bible open and your idolatry in check. To rip Revelation 14 from its covenantal foundation and build a prophecy cult around it — one Paul never envisioned, and Christ never commissioned — isn’t just a mistake. It’s doctrinal vandalism. You’re not rightly dividing the Word. You’re disfiguring the Bride. You’re swinging Scofield’s hacksaw in the sanctuary of God.
We see your obsession with a dead man.
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
I hope every lurker reading this wakes up to the catastrophic damage done by Darby, Scofield, Oxford, and the Rockefellers.
Around 1900, they introduced a theology no apostle, no saint, no martyr would’ve tolerated for five minutes.
And now we’ve got millions misled —
millions brainwashed beyond recognition.
The “two gospels” heresy is a foundational pillar of the Scofield lie —
a lynchpin in the entire Dispensationalist deception.
And now people are out here claiming that Jesus and Paul preached different Gospels —
which isn’t just wrong.
It’s heretical.
Jesus:
“This is My blood of the new covenant, poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” — Matthew 26:28
“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.” — Mark 16:15
Paul:
“Christ died for our sins… was buried… and rose again on the third day.” — 1 Corinthians 15:1–4
“There is no other Gospel.” — Galatians 1:6–9
Paul didn’t invent the Gospel.
He was commissioned by the risen Christ Himself — Galatians 1:11–12 — to carry it to the nations.
So no — the Gospel wasn’t split.
It wasn’t “Jesus for the Jews” and “Paul for the Church.”
That’s not theology.
That’s blasphemy in a Scofield footnote.
The early Church didn’t preach two gospels.
They preached one cross, one King, one Gospel — to Jew and Gentile alike.
Let’s be painfully clear:
No Christian in history believed this nonsense until 1910.
Not the apostles.
Not the early Church Fathers.
Not Irenaeus. Not Clement. Not Polycarp. Not Augustine. Not Athanasius.
Not one.
The “Paul vs. Jesus” fantasy didn’t exist until Darby and Scofield fabricated it —
then slipped it into the margins of the Bible with commentary no apostle ever wrote.
So if your 'two gospel' theology didn’t exist before Scofield,
it’s not the Gospel.
It’s a 20th-century fraud that would’ve been driven out with a whip by Peter, Paul — and Christ Himself.
History alone proves that —
One thousand nine hundred years of unbroken witness,
and not a single saint, martyr, or apostle ever preached this lie.
It came from the pit, not the Gospel.
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Around 1900, they introduced a theology no apostle, no saint, no martyr would’ve tolerated for five minutes.
And now we’ve got millions misled —
millions brainwashed beyond recognition.
The “two gospels” heresy is a foundational pillar of the Scofield lie —
a lynchpin in the entire Dispensationalist deception.
And now people are out here claiming that Jesus and Paul preached different Gospels —
which isn’t just wrong.
It’s heretical.
Jesus:
“This is My blood of the new covenant, poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” — Matthew 26:28
“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.” — Mark 16:15
Paul:
“Christ died for our sins… was buried… and rose again on the third day.” — 1 Corinthians 15:1–4
“There is no other Gospel.” — Galatians 1:6–9
Paul didn’t invent the Gospel.
He was commissioned by the risen Christ Himself — Galatians 1:11–12 — to carry it to the nations.
So no — the Gospel wasn’t split.
It wasn’t “Jesus for the Jews” and “Paul for the Church.”
That’s not theology.
That’s blasphemy in a Scofield footnote.
The early Church didn’t preach two gospels.
They preached one cross, one King, one Gospel — to Jew and Gentile alike.
Let’s be painfully clear:
No Christian in history believed this nonsense until 1910.
Not the apostles.
Not the early Church Fathers.
Not Irenaeus. Not Clement. Not Polycarp. Not Augustine. Not Athanasius.
Not one.
The “Paul vs. Jesus” fantasy didn’t exist until Darby and Scofield fabricated it —
then slipped it into the margins of the Bible with commentary no apostle ever wrote.
So if your 'two gospel' theology didn’t exist before Scofield,
it’s not the Gospel.
It’s a 20th-century fraud that would’ve been driven out with a whip by Peter, Paul — and Christ Himself.
History alone proves that —
One thousand nine hundred years of unbroken witness,
and not a single saint, martyr, or apostle ever preached this lie.
It came from the pit, not the Gospel.
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Report
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
You haven’t refuted a single word I typed — because you can’t.
Not with Scripture.
Not with history.
Not with anything but scoffing, strawmen, and Scofield slogans.
You’re not defending truth.
You’re defending a system — built on footnotes, propped up by propaganda, and exposed by the very Bible you pretend to follow.
You’ve been shown the truth.
You just don’t want it.
Because if you admitted it, the whole house of cards you built your faith on would collapse — and deep down, you know it.
So keep mocking.
Keep dodging.
But know this:
You didn’t win this argument.
You just ran from it.
Many people simply gloss over the resurrection clues in Daniel 12:1, there is no pretribulation rapture, there is a first resurrection, and a second resurrection.
Noah went through the flood, albeit protected. Lot went through the destruction of sodom, albeit removed by an angel….and he survived due to His obedience.
Saints will be beheaded. Blessed is he whom survives 1335 days.
Noah went through the flood, albeit protected. Lot went through the destruction of sodom, albeit removed by an angel….and he survived due to His obedience.
Saints will be beheaded. Blessed is he whom survives 1335 days.
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
I have added a thread for misled, Scofield-brainwashed poor souls to try to make sense of what was done to them.
This Is the Part Dispensationalists Refuse to Accept:
This Is the Part Dispensationalists Refuse to Accept:
Taken
Well-Known Member
The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
Exactly right.
God doesn’t rapture His people out of tribulation — He walks them through it.
Noah was sealed in, not swept away.
Lot fled in obedience, not beamed up.
And yet today’s Scofield-programmed churches actually think being “taken” like in Noah’s day is a good thing — when Jesus literally says the ones “taken” were the ones swept away in judgment (Luke 17:26–30, Matthew 24:39).
The Satanic Zionist deception worked brilliantly:
They convinced millions of Christians that being left behind with Christ is bad — and being swept away like the wicked in Noah’s day is somehow “the blessed hope.”
The deception is pure evil, sick and directly from the pit.
There’s no secret escape.
There’s one resurrection of the righteous — after tribulation. (Revelation 20:4, Daniel 12, Matthew 24)
And every saint who endures will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.
The rapture isn’t early.
It’s final.
Remember the film Independence Day?
All the gullible people rushed to the tops of skyscrapers, waving their signs and cheering, thinking the aliens had come in peace — and seconds later, they were vaporized into dust.
That’s exactly what Scofield’s demonic footnotes have done to the modern Church.
They’ve trained Christians to run toward the deception — to wave at the sky, smile at the beast, and beg to be “taken” like the wicked were in Noah’s day.
Jesus literally said the ones taken were the judged (Luke 17:27–30).
But Scofield’s Bible from Hell says, “Yes, go to the rooftops! That’s where Jesus is coming!”
No. That’s where the fire falls.
They’ve twisted the Church so badly, it’s cheering for its own destruction —
waiting for the Antichrist like he’s the groom at a wedding.
This isn’t just confusion.
It’s spiritual mind control.
Satanic to the core.
These demons have hijacked the modern Church —
leading it down the broadest road to Hell it’s been on since Calvary.
And they’re dancing the whole way there,
waving Scofield Bibles and Israeli flags emblazoned with the demonic Star of Remphan — like victory banners.
This isn’t just bad theology.
It’s intentional.
It’s satanic mind control —
a spiritual lobotomy engineered in Hell.
It’s so twisted, so dark, so psychotic,
it could only come from the pit itself.
Like an evil man sweetly coaxing a group of children
to dance into a barn full of starving lions —
and calling it “blessed hope".
What they’ve done to the Church since 1909 is so twisted,
so diabolical,
it couldn’t have come from man.
This deception bears the fingerprints of the Dragon himself.
Only the enemy of Christ could orchestrate something so brilliant,
so blasphemous —
and sell it as hope.
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The Gospel of Christ
Well-Known Member
It’s like Darby, Scofield, and the Zionist puppeteers sat around in 1899 and said:
“Let’s get them so far from the truth of the Gospel,
so fractured, so divided, so dual-covenant lost —
that they don’t just wander off the narrow road…
they fall off the wide road into total chaos—
right into the arms of the Antichrist.
We'll flood the Church with so many twisted definitions
that no one agrees on anything anymore.
And once they’re drowning in confusion —
we’ll sell them a golden ticket called the Rapture.
A false hope, a sky ride to nowhere…
and by the time they realize it’s a lie —
they’ll be cheering their own damnation.
More of them will go to Hell —
and they’ll thank us for it.
Hahahahahaha…"
That’s not a conspiracy theory.
That’s Dispensationalism.
Wake up.
Return to Calvary while mercy still speaks.
The veil is heavy,
and the hourglass is almost empty.
“Let’s get them so far from the truth of the Gospel,
so fractured, so divided, so dual-covenant lost —
that they don’t just wander off the narrow road…
they fall off the wide road into total chaos—
right into the arms of the Antichrist.
We'll flood the Church with so many twisted definitions
that no one agrees on anything anymore.
And once they’re drowning in confusion —
we’ll sell them a golden ticket called the Rapture.
A false hope, a sky ride to nowhere…
and by the time they realize it’s a lie —
they’ll be cheering their own damnation.
More of them will go to Hell —
and they’ll thank us for it.
Hahahahahaha…"
That’s not a conspiracy theory.
That’s Dispensationalism.
Wake up.
Return to Calvary while mercy still speaks.
The veil is heavy,
and the hourglass is almost empty.
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