No one can be righteous and trash at the same time. God does not work with such nonsense. Nor can you be 100 percent of one thing and 100 percent of something else. That would just make you a 200 percent something.
Is there a higher walk for believers in Christ?
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Are you thinking these are saying something different? I don't see that. To me they are saying exactly the same thing. You are either living in holiness in which case you are abounding in love towards others, or you are not.
Holiness is to live according to God's intent, and not your own, which is to abound in love towards others.
Much love!
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Some Scriptures referencing the Pre-incarnate Christ
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.
Col 1:15-17 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. (16) For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. (17) He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Rev 1:10-13 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, (11) saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last," and, "What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea." (12) Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, (13) and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band.
Rev 1:17 When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. But He placed His right hand on me and said, “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last,
Rev 2:8 To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of the First and the Last, who died and returned to life.
Rev 3:14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, 'These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
There are sins unto death and sins not unto death. 1 John 5:16-17. Catholics call them mortal sins and venial sins. The first thing Jesus does in authoring our salvation is take away the sins unto death to put us on the path of eternal life. To stay on that road we need to abide in Him. 1 John 3:24.
Next as we abide in Jesus He works on maturing the fruit of the Spirit in us. Just recently I noticed I didn't react to something in the same way. I noticed without knowing it I matured in another fruit of the Spirit. My hope is I live long enough to see perfection.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, I remember 2/9/77 when I was born again of the Spirit, I actually felt a heaviness leave my body and all desire to commit adultery left with it.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Did you read #845 in answer to one of your questions about snatching out of God's hands?
Here's some data on your first one... At the last super, the disciples were trying to find out who would deny the Christ. They said literally, "Not I am, Lord" Matthew 26:22, 25. No one would say the disciples were trying to deny they were God because they were using the phrase "Not I am." "I am" was a common way of designating oneself and it did not mean you were claiming to be God. The argument is made that because Jesus was "before" Abraham, Jesus must be God. Jesus figuratively existed in Abraham's time. He did not actually physically exist as a person, but rather he existed in the mind of God as God's plan for the redemption of man. In order for the Trinitarian argument that Jesus' "I am" statement in John 8:58 makes him God, his statement must be equivalent with God's "I am" statement in Exodus 3:14. The two statements are very different. The Greek phrase in John does mean "I am." The Hebrew phrase in Exodus means "to be" or "to become." God was saying "I will be what I will be."
You have stepped so far off the Scriptures (in my opinion) that I can't even respond to this
No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of The Father, He has made Him known John 1 vs 18
Jesus proceeded out of the bosom of The Father so that we might be taught by God. He came to His own and they knew Him not. Who's own, God's own. Blessings!
Jesus proceeded out of the bosom of The Father so that we might be taught by God. He came to His own and they knew Him not. Who's own, God's own. Blessings!
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Funny!
Heb 1:1-4 God, who at many times and in many ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, (2) has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds, (3) who being the shining splendor of His glory, and the express image of His essence, and upholding all things by the word of His power, through Himself cleansing of our sins, He sat down on the right of the Majesty on high, (4) being made so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
He has by inheritance ha? The Bible says Jesus is an “heir” of God (Hebrew 1:2), and a “joint-heir” with us (Romans 8:17). But if Christ is a co-eternal “Person” in the “Godhead” then he cannot be an heir “of God” because being God would put him into a position to be a full owner of everything and that would mean there would be nothing he could “inherit” which is why Jesus cannot be God and an heir of God at the same time.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
It's normal for a son to be an heir.
The Sonship of Christ is a great doctrine to heed, along with the doctrine of The Sending of the Son by the Father.
I gave a warning, so the thread wasn’t locked.i was only trying to help as I thought quite a few didn’t know that it’s against the rules to discuss the trinity on here, that was all.....
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We were grafted into the vine, when we became Born Again of imperishable seed...
I think there are those called the tares , that graft themselves into the true vine, God knows who they are.
Knowing who you are in Christ Jesus gives you the assurance of receiving His utmost promise to you. Like Peter who set this world aside and had no fear what so ever of losing his own life in exchange for the promise of the joy set before him after he received power when God poured out His spirit upon him in the upper room.
Abraham had a much higher walk than just crossing a dessert:
Hebrews 11:10
10 for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. Abraham set this world aside to see that city.
Heb 12:2
2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for "the joy set before him" endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Jesus set this world and His suffering aside to attain that Joy, to set us free so we can be where He is also.
Mathew 25:34-40
34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You as a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of Mine, you did it for Me.’
These represent the greater walk and what we must line up with when looking ahead, past the cares and worries of this world and lusts of our flesh.
Everyday wake up and be mindful of who you are in Christ Jesus and don't let the cares of this world get you down and make you sick with anxiety and diseases. Always be grateful for an opportunity from the Holy Spirit to help someone in need. Leave your cares in the world, DO NOT BRING THEM HOME. That is the sanctuary of your family. Guard them with the full Armor of God.
Abraham had a much higher walk than just crossing a dessert:
Hebrews 11:10
10 for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. Abraham set this world aside to see that city.
Heb 12:2
2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for "the joy set before him" endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Jesus set this world and His suffering aside to attain that Joy, to set us free so we can be where He is also.
Mathew 25:34-40
34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You as a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of Mine, you did it for Me.’
These represent the greater walk and what we must line up with when looking ahead, past the cares and worries of this world and lusts of our flesh.
Everyday wake up and be mindful of who you are in Christ Jesus and don't let the cares of this world get you down and make you sick with anxiety and diseases. Always be grateful for an opportunity from the Holy Spirit to help someone in need. Leave your cares in the world, DO NOT BRING THEM HOME. That is the sanctuary of your family. Guard them with the full Armor of God.
Living according to God's intent is righteousness, not holiness. Holiness is being present with the Lord where He is. Righteousness is based on behaviour/obedience to God's laws in the moment. Holiness is based on the presence of God in a moment by moment walk in an eternal life.
The OT is based on righteousness. The NT is based on holiness. Holiness (for us) is built on righteousness. The NT is built on the OT.
Having the 2 testaments is God's doing.
You said that believers are not holy, unless we are walking in what you're calling a higher walk. I'm refuting that by pointing out that scripture says if the first fruits are holy the whole lump is holy. Firstfruits is an offering that the Israelites brought to the priests who offered it on their behalf, which sanctified their whole harvest. It is an ALLEGORY. Jesus is our high priest who offered Himself (His blood) on our behalf.....and we in effect bring Him to be offered when we in acknowledge our sins....in effect acknowledging that our sins put Him on the cross...and accept His sacrifice on our behalf. Christ is our firstfruits offering that makes us holy.Being grafted INTO the vine is what I'm trying to get people to understand. Believing INTO Christ to be where He is. Many see the sample of grace as the whole product.
Jesus is not OUR offering. Jesus offered Himself up to the Father. You may have misappropriated something not meant for you to control.
Others deny that Jesus is holy. That one can sin and still be in Christ. I do not believe that's the case. I hold to the standard of Christ that must be won...as Paul so earnestly sought, forsaking all in order to win Christ. You disagree with this seeking of the Lord to claim you are improving yourself with what you already have. That will never happen. Seek the kingdom. Win Christ. You think you have everything and are rich, in need of nothing. But read the condition of Laodicea. They were VERY certain that Christ was in them. And to a degree...they were...otherwise Jesus would not have to spit them out. But they are still in the mouth...not swallowed. Learn what is means to be either a good fig or a bad tasting fig (From Jeremiah)
It wouldn't be called deception if people could easily see through it.
(The Jews "brought" Him to be offered in a more literal sense by having Him put to death, sacrificed. Hard to fathom, but it was necessary that they did that....their sin put Him on the cross in a literal way, that we might be saved.....God in His incredible wisdom and mercy! )
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
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True. We don't make ourselves holy, God makes us holy. Holy means separate from sin. We were freed from its bondage. The Holy Spirit sanctified us ( separated us), justified us and soon will glorify us. Christ did the work. It was His righteousness ( fulfilling the Law) that saves us, not ours.
And as the subject of imputation has come up a lot and it is likewise very important foundational understanding of the gospel, the following must be pointed out which irrefutably proves what GOD means by the word “imputed” biblically:
Rom 4:16-22
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Imputed, reckoned, counted….is God calling those things which be not as though they are. It is the yes but not necessarily yet seen of spiritual things. Like where scripture says: All things have been put under the feet of Christ, but we not yet necessarily “see” all things put under. Praise the Lord for His wonderful gracious ways!
That's faulty reasoning. A sample is holy so then the whole product is also holy. Having begun in the Spirit we are made complete in Him...in holiness.
Why do you argue the firstfruits AGAINST the whole lump?
You are not seeing God's purpose in giving us a sample of grace in order that we buy the whole lump. Taste and see that the Lord is good.
Do you listen to Jesus?
Do you realize that the parables of the kingdom are trying to relate something important in regards to how God sees things...and not just what a self-interested religious indoctrination produces?
When a new product is introduced, a free sample is the way we get to know what it is we are meant to purchase. NOBODY would seek the Lord for the higher kingdom walk (the whole lump or the full measure) without a sample of His grace...in holiness.
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