Is there a higher walk for believers in Christ?

[Episkopos]

And as the subject of imputation has come up a lot and it is likewise very important foundational understanding of the gospel, the following must be pointed out which irrefutably proves what GOD means by the word “imputed” biblically:


Rom 4:16-22

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

God can do that. But we can't. When we call something which is not as if it was....that's called lying. Messiah complexes aside...we are not God. You have to learn your place. Or...you can bear false witness.

Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:

He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

His faith was imputed to him for righteousness. And Phinehas' killing of the offenders was likewise imputed to him for righteousness.

But a religious indoctrination has taken what God justifies COMPLETELY out of context. We are justified by BOTH faith and works.

But only faith can take you into the higher walk which is in the righteousness of God. That's what Paul was saying. No amount of good works or any effort can translate a person into the kingdom realm. It is ONLY by faith that grace can be unleashed.

People twist the bible to mean that God is looking for a religious belief in a salvation scheme that requires a religious belief. A circular reasoning.

But the kingdom realm of the Spirit is real. To get there we need to please God with a WHOLE-hearted faith. From there God TRANSLATES us the rest of the way in His keeping power in order that we might walk as Jesus walked in the higher kingdom realm of the Spirit. That's the gospel. The gospel is about POWER. The power to translate us into a reconciliatory walk in God's love by grace through faith. But people have reduced that to God tolerating our sins in order to guarantee an afterlife (think..Valhalla).

Imputed, reckoned, counted….is God calling those things which be not as though they are.

False. Abraham WAS righteous...and God attested to it. You are not understanding righteousness. God calls it as HE sees it. No fictional religion as you make it seem. With what Abraham was given, he did the right thing. Abraham did what few people can do....trust God. Trusting is obedience. Phinehas also obeyed God by killing two people. He stayed the plague. And God counted Phinehas as righteous...just like Abraham. Phinehas did the right thing.

Study the bible for what is actually written.

A mathematician knows how to count. Even non-mathematicians know how to count. If you can add one plus one...does that make you a mathematician? Well, logically. it doesn't not make you a mathematician. So then even while we are limited in our flesh...we can still obey God at that level. That is what righteousness is all about.

Was the "good" Samaritan filled with the Spirit? Was he saved? Or...did he simply treat another as himself? Did he do what was right?

 

[Lizbeth]

That's faulty reasoning. A sample is holy so then the whole product is also holy. Having begun in the Spirit we are made complete in Him...in holiness.

Why do you argue the firstfruits AGAINST the whole lump?

You are not seeing God's purpose in giving us a sample of grace in order that we buy the whole lump. Taste and see that the Lord is good.

Do you listen to Jesus?

Do you realize that the parables of the kingdom are trying to relate something important in regards to how God sees things...and not just what a self-interested religious indoctrination produces?

When a new product is introduced a free sample is the way we get to know what it is we are meant to purchase. NOBODY would seek the Lord for the higher kingdom walk without a sample of His grace...in holiness.

You will need to take it up with the Lord, Epi if you think His reasoning is faulty. It is HIS word, not mine. Actually it really is faulty, thankfully for us.....foolishness to the carnal mind.

It isn't that we don't still need to be running the race so as to win it, and be apprehending that for which He apprehended us....we do. But it is from the foundation and fount of that which He has already accomplished in us....it's not possible to apprehend otherwise. We are apprehending what He has already deposited in us. The earnest/down payment of the spirit is an allegory...it is not quite literally how a down payment works in the world, so we need ears to hear to hear what the spirit is saying by it.

Scripture speaks and teaches in THIS vein, and I'm sorry but it isn't in the same vein as how you are explaining things:

Rom 6:1-7

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

 

[Episkopos]

You will need to take it up with the Lord, Epi if you think His reasoning is faulty. It is HIS word, not mine.

It's your faulty reasoning...not His.

Actually it really is faulty, thankfully for us.....foolishness to the carnal mind.

A religious scheme that has no power. A carnal mind is required to take away the power of the gospel in exchange for a "progressive sanctification" scheme based on lies.

It isn't that we don't still need to be running the race so as to win it, and be apprehending that for which He apprehended us....we do. But it is from the foundation and fount of that which He has already accomplished in us....it's not possible to apprehend otherwise. We are apprehending what He has already deposited in us. The earnest/down payment of the spirit is an allegory...it is not quite literally how a down payment works in the world, so we need ears to hear to hear what the spirit is saying by it.

LOL. You are trying very hard to miss the truth. A downpayment is exactly an apprehending in order to further apprehend. Maybe you have never purchased anything substantial before. Do you live in an apartment?

Scripture speaks and teaches in THIS vein, and I'm sorry but it isn't in the same vein as how you are explaining things:

Rom 6:1-7

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

You are a master of avoiding wisdom, knowledge and understanding. So be it.

 

[Lizbeth]

God can do that. But we can't. When we call something which is not as if it was....that's called lying. Messiah complexes aside...we are not God. You have to learn your place. Or...you can bear false witness.


His faith was imputed to him for righteousness. And Phinehas' killing of the offenders was likewise imputed to him for righteousness.

But a religious indoctrination has taken what God justifies COMPLETELY out of context. We are justified by BOTH faith and works.

But only faith can take you into the higher walk which is in the righteousness of God. That's what Paul was saying. No amount of good works or any effort can translate a person into the kingdom realm. It is ONLY by faith that grace can be unleashed.

People twist the bible to mean that God is looking for a religious belief in a salvation scheme that requires a religious belief. A circular reasoning.

But the kingdom realm of the Spirit is real. To get there we need to please God with a WHOLE-hearted faith. From there God TRANSLATES us the rest of the way in His keeping power in order that we might walk as Jesus walked in the higher kingdom realm of the Spirit. That's the gospel. The gospel is about POWER. But people have reduced that to God tolerating our sins in order to guarantee an afterlife (think..Valhalla).


False. Abraham WAS righteous...and God attested to it. You are not understanding righteousness. God calls it as HE sees it. No fictional religion as you make it seem. With what Abraham was given, he did the right thing. Abraham did what few people can do....trust God. Trusting is obedience. Phinehas also obeyed God by killing two people. He stayed the plague. And God counted Phinehas as righteous...just like Abraham. Phinehas did the right thing.

Study the bible for what is actually written.

A mathematician knows how to count. Even non-mathematicians know how to count. If you can add one plus one...does that make you a mathematician? Well, logically. it doesn't not make you a mathematician. So then even while we are limited in our flesh...we can still obey God at that level. That is what righteousness is all about.

Was the "good" Samaritan filled with the Spirit? Was he saved? Or...did he simply treat another as himself? Did he do what was right?

What don't you understand about "He calleth those things which be not as though they were."? It means what it says.. However.....now that He has been so indescribably gracious to us to do that....what manner of persons ought we now to be and what should our conversation be and how should we now walk to be pleasing to the Lord? That is the vein in which the scriptures speak. Not the way you are saying things by denying the foundation and what the cross has wrought for us. If holiness is the goal here.....it is simply not necessary to deny the foundation......in fact that foundation is necessary to keep, because it is the source from which the rest of the building must spring up and grow.

And as the fountains of the deep spring forth, the rain also pours down at the same time....(they are essentially one and the same...because Christ in us is the same Christ who is in heaven....His Spirit). We see this in the account of Noah. It is deep calling unto deep. And also this beautiful passage:

Psa 85:9-12

Surely his salvation is near those who fear him, that his glory may dwell in our land.

Love and faithfulness meet together; righteousness and peace kiss each other.

Faithfulness springs forth from the earth, and righteousness looks down from heaven.

The LORD will indeed give what is good, and our land will yield its harvest.

 

[ChristisGod]

That's faulty reasoning. A sample is holy so then the whole product is also holy. Having begun in the Spirit we are made complete in Him...in holiness.

Why do you argue the firstfruits AGAINST the whole lump?

You are not seeing God's purpose in giving us a sample of grace in order that we buy the whole lump. Taste and see that the Lord is good.

Do you listen to Jesus?

Do you realize that the parables of the kingdom are trying to relate something important in regards to how God sees things...and not just what a self-interested religious indoctrination produces?

When a new product is introduced, a free sample is the way we get to know what it is we are meant to purchase. NOBODY would seek the Lord for the higher kingdom walk (the whole lump or the full measure) without a sample of His grace...in holiness.

Do you still sin ? Yes or no

 

[Lizbeth]

It's your faulty reasoning...not His.


A religious scheme that has no power. A carnal mind is required to take away the power of the gospel in exchange for a "progressive sanctification" scheme based on lies.


LOL. You are trying very hard to miss the truth. A downpayment is exactly an apprehending in order to further apprehend. Maybe you have never purchased anything substantial before. Do you live in an apartment?

You are a master of avoiding wisdom, knowledge and understanding. So be it.

Your fruits are showing again. Are they good fruits? My only desire is to help you, not insult and belittle you. I advise you to lay your reasoning on the altar and ask God to sift it. Whenever I have done this He has been so faithful to answer....it takes willingness though....and can take time, so we need to be patient and let Him answer and tweek our understanding in His own time.

Any wisdom and understanding that I have comes from the Lord, though we only know in part.

 

[Episkopos]

What don't you understand about "He calleth those things which be not as though they were."? It means what it says.. However.....now that He has been so indescribably gracious to us to do that....what manner of persons ought we now to be and what should our conversation be and how should we now walk to be pleasing to the Lord? That is the vein in which the scriptures speak. Not the way you are saying things by denying the foundation and what the cross has wrought for us. If holiness is the goal here.....it is simply not necessary to deny the foundation......in fact that foundation is necessary to keep, because it is the source from which the rest of the building must spring up and grow.

And as the fountains of the deep spring forth, the rain also pours down at the same time....(they are essentially one and the same...because Christ in us is the same Christ who is in heaven....His Spirit). We see this in the account of Noah. It is deep calling unto deep. And also this beautiful passage:

Psa 85:9-12

Surely his salvation is near those who fear him, that his glory may dwell in our land.

Love and faithfulness meet together; righteousness and peace kiss each other.

Faithfulness springs forth from the earth, and righteousness looks down from heaven.

The LORD will indeed give what is good, and our land will yield its harvest.

There's drought in the wilderness walk. But one can try relying on the mirages of what is not, that make it appear that good fruit is proceeding from the dust clouds of our mind.

 

[Episkopos]

Your fruits are showing again. Are they good fruits? My only desire is to help you, not insult and belittle you. I advise you to lay your reasoning on the altar and ask God to sift it. Whenever I have done this He has been so faithful to answer....it takes willingness though....and can take time, so we need to be patient and let Him answer and tweek our understanding in His own time.

Any wisdom and understanding that I have comes from the Lord, though we only know in part.

A tweak or a whole other realm?

 

[Lizbeth]

There's drought in the wilderness walk. But one can try relying on the mirages of what is not, that make it appear that good fruit is proceeding from the dust clouds of our mind.

I'm praying for you Epi, that you will accept and receive what Christ has done for you. He loves you. And then maybe other things will fall into proper place. Yes, it is sometimes just like a tweek, because the difference between flesh and spirit is only a thin fine line, so to speak.

 

[Episkopos]

I'm praying for you Epi, that you will accept and receive what Christ has done for you. He loves you.

I'm praying that you will return the love that God has for you. Go to Him...stop waiting for Him to return and ...seek the kingdom.

And then maybe other things will fall into proper place. Yes, it is sometimes just like a tweek, because the difference between flesh and spirit is only a thin fine line, so to speak.

A thin line, and yet an uncrossable chasm that can only be bridged by grace through faith.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Born

rebuilder 454 said:
Is Jesus God?
Is he creator, or created?

Your slippery reply; "born"

 

[rebuilder 454]

No one can be righteous and trash at the same time. God does not work with such nonsense. Nor can you be 100 percent of one thing and 100 percent of something else. That would just make you a 200 percent something.

take it up with him

I am only a reporter.
"...i am not worthy to be called an apostle"
"...wretched man am i "
"...i am the chief of sinners"

All off the top of my head.
I am sure there is more but it does not matter to you.
You keep craftily reframing most everything

 

[Ritajanice]

rebuilder 454 said:
Is Jesus God?
Is he creator, or created?

Your slippery reply; "born"

Jesus is God in the flesh.....

 

[Lizbeth]

I'm praying that you will return the love that God has for you. Go to Him...stop waiting for Him to return and ...seek the kingdom.

A thin line, and yet an uncrossable chasm that can only be bridged by grace through faith.

A thin fine line.....but a world of a difference.

Romans 4 is very consistent and it says blessed is the man whose sins are covered and to whom righteousness is imputed WITHOUT WORKS, as others have been trying to tell you. It couldn't be more clear what imputed means. Except for those who are blinded by something else.

I don't believe God expects that we will never err or make mistakes, but that we need to remain soft and maleable clay in the Potter's hands, teachable, correctable, willing to let Him sort us out. Humble and contrite, not hardened clay.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Heheheh...Love my older Sis.xoxo

I didn't highlight all the times John used "give" in John 17. I wanted you to find them and notice how John makes it a "key word" by its frequency that will direct your memory back to John 10 and John's meaning of who are chosen. Even Judas was chosen for his purpose. I know this is new for you, but even if you do not accept it now, you may eventually.

Also, see how Calvinists have created a false doctrine based on one verse of Scripture meant for only the Apostles? It is very helpful to know what the apostle means through understanding Semitic writing styles that most westerners are clueless about. That verse in John 10 is why Martin Luther wrote in his letter to a friend that "even if I were to commit murder and adultery 1000 times a day, it could not separate me from God." Why? Because "nothing can snatch me out of God's hands." Wrong.

 

[Ritajanice]

I didn't highlight all the times John used "give" in John 17. I wanted you to find them and notice how John makes it a "key word" by its frequency that will direct your memory back to John 10 and John's meaning of who are chosen. Even Judas was chosen for his purpose. I know this is new for you, but even if you do not accept it now, you may eventually.

Also, see how Calvinists have created a false doctrine based on one verse of Scripture meant for only the Apostles? It is very helpful to know what the apostle means through understanding Semitic writing styles that most westerners are clueless about. That verse in John 10 is why Martin Luther wrote in his letter to a friend that "even if I were to commit murder and adultery 1000 times a day, it could not separate me from God." Why? Because "nothing can snatch me out of God's hands." Wrong.

I love reading your posts, even though we don’t agree on a few things...I can see the Love you have for the Lord,xoxo

 

[Episkopos]

Why do we run the race? Why did Paul run the race? Unlike so many, he didn't passively receive a promise based on self-love or self-preservation...it was not about being comforted in his carnal state for him...thus burying his talent because he was afraid to lose it. No, he ran to win Christ. Paul was an athlete for Christ....not satisfied with a salvation "status." Paul ran for the love of his Lord was was drawn into the race of faith for the high calling in Christ. Paul was after the resurrection life that brings with it the everlasting peace and joy of the Lord


"Know you not that they which run in a race run all, but one receives the prize? So run, that you may obtain." 1 Cor. 9:24


Paul was also aware of himself. He said..."in my flesh there is no good thing". Paul sought to outpace his own failings, his character flaws, his carnal appetites...Paul feared the Lord. He knew that there is nothing automatic about the kingdom of God. Paul knew that God judges those who have received grace with a stricter judgment.


"Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath," Rom. 2:6


We are exhorted by Paul to patiently run for God's pleasure...laying aside our own will and our own ideas. We are being watched by the host of heaven. Will we succeed in the race, or will we slack off the pace to something we are more comfortable with? Will we allow the deep sleep of complacency to get the better of us. Will we let ourselves be mollycoddled into inaction based on lies from the devil?

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Heb 12:1,2

 

[Peterlag]

take it up with him

I am only a reporter.
"...i am not worthy to be called an apostle"
"...wretched man am i "
"...i am the chief of sinners"

All off the top of my head.
I am sure there is more but it does not matter to you.
You keep craftily reframing most everything

I just put a post on here a couple of days ago about the wretched man am i. Romans 7 I believe...

Here's a little insight on Romans 7 and then a few verses right into Romans 8...

1.) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
He's writing to Israel who knew the Law.

2.) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
He's talking about the Jewish women under the Law.

4.) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
He's telling Israel they are now dead to their Law.

5.) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
By the Law he says. He's talking to Israel.

6.) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
He's telling Israel they are delivered from the Law.

7.) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Is the Law sin? Israel had the Law.

8.) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
By the commandment... the Law. He's talking to Israel.

9.) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
The Law and the commandment. Still about Israel.

12.) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
The Law and the commandment. Still about Israel.

13.) ...by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
By the commandment. It's the Jewish Law he's still talking about.

14.) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
The Law... Israel's.

16.) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Still talking about the Law.

17.) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Under the Law.

18.) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Under the Law.

25.) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
The flesh was under the Law.

1.) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
No more flesh... Hello!!!

2.) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
No more Law of sin and death. Can you see he has now stopped talking about Israel?

3.) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
The Law was weak through the flesh.

4.) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Bingo.

9.) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you...

 

[Peterlag]

rebuilder 454 said:
Is Jesus God?
Is he creator, or created?

Your slippery reply; "born"

Am I wrong? He was born.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Am I wrong? He was born.

Did you know He existed before He was conceived and was born?