Is there a higher walk for believers in Christ?

[Stumpmaster]

I would comment on this if I knew what it was referring too.

Have a go . . . Jesus Christ is God incarnate.

Php 2:5-8 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, (6) who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, (7) but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. (8) And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

 

[Peterlag]

Have a go . . . Jesus Christ is God incarnate.

Php 2:5-8 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, (6) who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, (7) but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. (8) And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Vine’s Lexicon has under “form”: “properly the nature or essence, not in the abstract, but as actually subsisting in the individual…it does not include in itself anything ‘accidental’ or separable, such as particular modes of manifestation.”a Using lexicons like Vine’s, Trinitarians boldly make the case that the “nature” underlying Jesus’ human body was God. Trinitarian scholars like Vine contrast morphē, which they assert refers to an “inner, essential nature,” with schema, (in Phil. 2:8, and translated “fashion”) which they assert refers to the outward appearance. We admit that there are many Trinitarian scholars who have written lexical entries or articles on the Greek word morphē and concluded that Christ must be God. A Trinitarian wanting to prove his point can quote from a number of them. However, we assert that these definitions are biased and erroneous. In addition, we could not find any non-Trinitarian scholars who agreed with the conclusion of the Trinitarian scholars, while many Trinitarian sources agree that morphē refers to the outward appearance and not an inner nature.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Vine’s Lexicon has under “form”: “properly the nature or essence, not in the abstract, but as actually subsisting in the individual…it does not include in itself anything ‘accidental’ or separable, such as particular modes of manifestation.”a Using lexicons like Vine’s, Trinitarians boldly make the case that the “nature” underlying Jesus’ human body was God. Trinitarian scholars like Vine contrast morphē, which they assert refers to an “inner, essential nature,” with schema, (in Phil. 2:8, and translated “fashion”) which they assert refers to the outward appearance. We admit that there are many Trinitarian scholars who have written lexical entries or articles on the Greek word morphē and concluded that Christ must be God. A Trinitarian wanting to prove his point can quote from a number of them. However, we assert that these definitions are biased and erroneous. In addition, we could not find any non-Trinitarian scholars who agreed with the conclusion of the Trinitarian scholars, while many Trinitarian sources agree that morphē refers to the outward appearance and not an inner nature.

John 1:18

 

[Peterlag]

John 1:18

Good verse.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I think they both mean the same thing.

A legalist says we must live up to some standard or do special works. or we are not saved..

Salvation is a person, not a formula.
Do the vows have equality with the marriage?
If they do, it is shallow and legal.

 

[rebuilder 454]

This is so. The Jews never would have dreamed to make God's Spirit into a separate person than Himself. As Paul says...is the spirit of a man different from a man?

Nope.
Basically you belief is heresy... because the bible EASILY refutes that.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You folks like to think you are trash... a sinner and therefore garbage in God's eyes. I like to think I'm the called of God, among the ones He invited into this extraordinary liberation from the slavery of sin nature, and therefore was able to transform us into a more excellent beauty. I would like to point out we can only be glorified because it's God’s superiority, and exalted light that has magnified the Christ to shine in such beauty as an image of light, with divine praise, honor and dignity. It's the Christ who blazed a trail to God’s heart of love, and therefore was the first who was transformed into a more splendid and excellent beauty.

Paul did both.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is no verse anywhere that says God humbled Himself or let anyone spit on Him or beat Him up. Nowhere.

Is Jesus God?
Is he creator, or created?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Vine’s Lexicon has under “form”: “properly the nature or essence, not in the abstract, but as actually subsisting in the individual…it does not include in itself anything ‘accidental’ or separable, such as particular modes of manifestation.”a Using lexicons like Vine’s, Trinitarians boldly make the case that the “nature” underlying Jesus’ human body was God. Trinitarian scholars like Vine contrast morphē, which they assert refers to an “inner, essential nature,” with schema, (in Phil. 2:8, and translated “fashion”) which they assert refers to the outward appearance. We admit that there are many Trinitarian scholars who have written lexical entries or articles on the Greek word morphē and concluded that Christ must be God. A Trinitarian wanting to prove his point can quote from a number of them. However, we assert that these definitions are biased and erroneous. In addition, we could not find any non-Trinitarian scholars who agreed with the conclusion of the Trinitarian scholars, while many Trinitarian sources agree that morphē refers to the outward appearance and not an inner nature.

What cult are you a part of?
Jehovah witness????

 

[Hepzibah]

It is my belief that a new movement is gaining traction in the church, but I do not have contact with any others at present who are discerning it, so I have not been saying much about it. Until that is, that I have found that Wesley spoke about it and split from it and it was known as Zinzendorf(ism) after the leader of the group that said sinlessness came at the first coming to Christ, as opposed to Wesley's second blessing.

I have come across three individuals now on forums who are teaching this, saying that it was when they realized it that they were now sinless and even could never sin again. They all say that they do not sin, not by coming up through the flaming sword as in Fox, in traditional holiness teaching but they in effect climbed over the walls.

Some of the traits I see in them is first, they have some Calvinism included in their theology. Calvinism has been worming its way for quite some time but basically it says this: that God created nearly all of mankind apart from a select few, who would spend all of eternity roasting in hell, at His good pleasure with no say at all in the matter. It is evil with its once saved always saved. I am an exCalvinist.

George Fox I believe had the most balanced view in that God has an appointed time for every man who comes into the world, to give him light that is as scripture says, calls him to give him a chance. I find this backed up by the many people who have said to me while hearing the gospel 'Oh I nearly did believe at one time'.

I also find that they are very ignorant of scripture and unable to quote it freely but I say this guardedly as I only know a few so far.

 

[ChristisGod]

Hebrews 2:11
For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

We are positional sanctified in Christ. Perfected forever, set apart

We are conditionally being sanctified every day..

Thats why scripture says we are sanctified. but also asays we are being sanctified

Amen

 

[Episkopos]

Nope.
Basically you belief is heresy... because the bible EASILY refutes that.

Only an indoctrination can be so certain of what is not found in the bible. The Jews rejected Jesus as God. But when in all the OT did the Jews think that the Spirit of God was a separate Being than God? God is Spirit. God is ONE Spirit. Read your bible to see how many Spirits are in God. Is the Spirit of Christ a separate person from Christ? Is the Spirit of God a separate person from God?

The heresy is to separate God from His Spirit.

God is ONE Spirit in TWO Persons, Father and Son.

That was the apostolic teaching until 325 AD when Constantine forced a compromise on the bishops who were present on the council. They settled for the trinity for 2 main reasons. To refute Arianism. And to maintain control of men over the church based on reducing the Holy Spirit to being in name only ...NOT IN POWER...(Which no man can control) Ever since then we rarely see an outbreak of actual resurrection life based on the empowering of the Spirit of God. Instead we have settled for a Babylon of captivity to religious dogmas and ideologies that don't bring life.

Ecclesiastical hierarchies bring religion not life.

 

[ChristisGod]

I don't read much in the Bible that says we are in the process of being sanctified. Where do you read that?

Look at my question above. I wrote in the process of being sanctified. You give me 1 Corinthians 1:2 that says nothing about in the process. Do you have a verse that says in the process because the first one you give says...

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus,...

1 Thessalonians 3:12
to the establishing your hearts blameless in sanctification before our God and Father, in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

Strong's Concordance
hagiasmos: consecration, sanctification
Original Word: ἁγιασμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hagiasmos
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-as-mos')
Definition: consecration, sanctification
Usage: the process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 38 hagiasmós (a masculine noun derived from 40 /hágios, "holy") – sanctification (the process of advancing in holiness); use of the believer being progressively transformed by the Lord into His likeness (similarity of nature). See 40 /hagios ("holy").

We are to live holy in this present life and below we read there is a past, present and future aspect to our sanctification.

1 Corinthians 1:30
“From him we are in Christ Jesus, who has become wisdom to us from God, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption.”

Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 3:12
to the establishing your hearts blameless in sanctification before our God and Father, in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 N-NMS
GRK: θεοῦ ὁ ἁγιασμὸς ὑμῶν ἀπέχεσθαι
NAS: of God, your sanctification; [that is], that you abstain
KJV: [even] your sanctification, that ye
INT: of God the sanctification of you to abstain

1 Thessalonians 4:4 N-DMS
GRK: κτᾶσθαι ἐν ἁγιασμῷ καὶ τιμῇ
NAS: vessel in sanctification and honor,
KJV: vessel in sanctification and honour;
INT: to possess in holiness and honor

1 Thessalonians 4:7 N-DMS
GRK: ἀλλ' ἐν ἁγιασμῷ
NAS: us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification.
KJV: but unto holiness.
INT: but in sanctification

2 Thessalonians 2:13 N-DMS
GRK: σωτηρίαν ἐν ἁγιασμῷ πνεύματος καὶ
NAS: through sanctification by the Spirit
KJV: through sanctification of the Spirit
INT: salvation in sanctification of [the] Spirit and

1 Timothy 2:15 N-DMS
GRK: ἀγάπῃ καὶ ἁγιασμῷ μετὰ σωφροσύνης
NAS: and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
KJV: charity and holiness with sobriety.
INT: love and sanctification with self-restraint

Hebrews 12:14 N-AMS
GRK: καὶ τὸν ἁγιασμόν οὗ χωρὶς
NAS: with all men, and the sanctification without
KJV: all [men], and holiness, without which
INT: and the holiness which apart from

1 Peter 1:2 N-DMS
GRK: πατρός ἐν ἁγιασμῷ πνεύματος εἰς
NAS: the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit,
KJV: through sanctification of the Spirit,
INT: [the] Father by sanctification of [the] Spirit unto

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

Only an indoctrination can be so certain of what is not found in the bible. The Jews rejected Jesus as God. But when in all the OT did the Jews think that the Spirit of God was a separate Being than God? God is Spirit. God is ONE Spirit. Read your bible to see how many Spirits are in God. Is the Spirit of Christ a separate person from Christ? Is the Spirit of God a separate person from God?

The heresy is to separate God from His Spirit.

God is ONE Spirit in TWO Persons, Father and Son.

That was the apostolic teaching until 325 AD when Constantine forced a compromise on the bishops who were present on the council. They settled for the trinity for 2 main reasons. To refute Arianism. And to maintain control of men over the church based on reducing the Holy Spirit to being in name only ...NOT IN POWER...(Which no man can control) Ever since then we rarely see an outbreak of actual resurrection life based on the empowering of the Spirit of God. Instead we have settled for a Babylon of captivity to religious dogmas and ideologies that don't bring life.

Ecclesiastical hierarchies bring religion not life.

God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit- 3 Divine Persons, not 2.

Jesus used personal pronouns when referring to the Holy Spirit:

"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you. "(John 16:7-15).

The Holy Spirit below does things that only a person can do,

1-He leads (Matt. 4:1).
2-He is called God (Acts 5:3-4).
3-He helps and comforts (John 14:16, 16:7).
4-He convicts of sin (John 16:17).
5-He gives testimony of Jesus (John 15:26).
6-He teaches, guides and brings to remembrance (John 14:26, 16:13).
7-He speaks and instructs (Acts 8:29; 10:19; John 16:13).
8-He hears and speaks (John 16:13, Acts 28:25-27).
9-He can be lied to and tested (Acts 5:3-4,9).
10-He sends and gives life (Acts 13:4, John 3:6, Gen 1:3).
11-He is a witness (Acts 5:32)
12-He restrains (2 Thess. 2:7).
13-He prevents (Acts 16:6-7).
14-The Spirit "said" to Philip and Peter(Acts 8:29, 10:19).
15-Peter said he was "told" by the Spirit (Acts 11:12).
16-The Holy Spirit "solemnly testifies" (Acts 20:23).
17-He made some of the early Christians overseers to shepherd the Church. (Acts 20:28).
18-He wills (Acts 13:2).
19-He interprets our prayers (Rom. 8:26).
20-He knows and communicates (1 Cor. 2:11; Rom. 8:27).
21-He reveals (Eph. 3:5).
22-He has a will-He decides, chooses and distributes the Gifts to the church (1 Cor. 12:11).
23-He can be grieved (Eph. 4:30).
24-He can be stifled, quenched ( 1 Thess 5:19)
25-He contends with man ( Gen 6:3 )

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

There can be no higher walk when one denies the True and Living God. That would be what is known as an oxymoron. . By definition its a flesh walk, a lower walk and has nothing to do with the Person of the Holy Spirit . That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is Born of the Spirit is Spirit.

No Holy Spirit-no new birth. Just mans religion like the pharisees who had the higher walk over everyone else living in the flesh and lording their religion over others.

And we know what Jesus thought of them. The truth was hidden from them.

 

[Episkopos]

God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit- 3 Divine Persons, not 2.

Jesus used personal pronouns when referring to the Holy Spirit:

Not so. You are undoubtedly a uni-lingual English speaker. So you don't know about gender in other languages. If you would become less ignorant about this I can help you.

In Greek autos can mean either "he" or "it". In Greek the word "spirit" is masculine in gender..... The same thing occurs in Hebrew whereby wisdom is a she (feminine). Pay attention to these passages...they actually fit with this discussion on more than one level.

Prov 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Is wisdom a woman? No. We read this in Proverbs whereby the translators chose to retain the gender of the Hebrew noun. Why? Who knows?

In modern latin-based languages like French, a house and a table are feminine. Are they people? no.

On a hot day, we say "Il fait chaud" It's hot....(literally "he makes hot")

So then your understanding is based on a lack of understanding.

"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you. "(John 16:7-15).

The Holy Spirit below does things that only a person can do,

1-He leads (Matt. 4:1).
2-He is called God (Acts 5:3-4).
3-He helps and comforts (John 14:16, 16:7).
4-He convicts of sin (John 16:17).
5-He gives testimony of Jesus (John 15:26).
6-He teaches, guides and brings to remembrance (John 14:26, 16:13).
7-He speaks and instructs (Acts 8:29; 10:19; John 16:13).
8-He hears and speaks (John 16:13, Acts 28:25-27).
9-He can be lied to and tested (Acts 5:3-4,9).
10-He sends and gives life (Acts 13:4, John 3:6, Gen 1:3).
11-He is a witness (Acts 5:32)
12-He restrains (2 Thess. 2:7).
13-He prevents (Acts 16:6-7).
14-The Spirit "said" to Philip and Peter(Acts 8:29, 10:19).
15-Peter said he was "told" by the Spirit (Acts 11:12).
16-The Holy Spirit "solemnly testifies" (Acts 20:23).
17-He made some of the early Christians overseers to shepherd the Church. (Acts 20:28).
18-He wills (Acts 13:2).
19-He interprets our prayers (Rom. 8:26).
20-He knows and communicates (1 Cor. 2:11; Rom. 8:27).
21-He reveals (Eph. 3:5).
22-He has a will-He decides, chooses and distributes the Gifts to the church (1 Cor. 12:11).
23-He can be grieved (Eph. 4:30).
24-He can be stifled, quenched ( 1 Thess 5:19)
25-He contends with man ( Gen 6:3 )

hope this helps !!!

A telephone also speaks to us. Do we look at a phone thinking it is a person because it can speak with us, guide us, and direct us?

I think spiritually many are still at a caveman level of understanding.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Vine’s Lexicon has under “form”: “properly the nature or essence, not in the abstract, but as actually subsisting in the individual…it does not include in itself anything ‘accidental’ or separable, such as particular modes of manifestation.”a Using lexicons like Vine’s, Trinitarians boldly make the case that the “nature” underlying Jesus’ human body was God. Trinitarian scholars like Vine contrast morphē, which they assert refers to an “inner, essential nature,” with schema, (in Phil. 2:8, and translated “fashion”) which they assert refers to the outward appearance. We admit that there are many Trinitarian scholars who have written lexical entries or articles on the Greek word morphē and concluded that Christ must be God. A Trinitarian wanting to prove his point can quote from a number of them. However, we assert that these definitions are biased and erroneous. In addition, we could not find any non-Trinitarian scholars who agreed with the conclusion of the Trinitarian scholars, while many Trinitarian sources agree that morphē refers to the outward appearance and not an inner nature.

Good morning. So what was Jesus if not God or man? He was only in the FORM OF these.

 

[ChristisGod]

Not so. You are undoubtedly a uni-lingual English speaker. So you don't know about gender in other languages. If you would become less ignorant about this I can help you.

In Greek autos can mean either "he" or "it". In Greek the word "spirit" is masculine in gender..... The same thing occurs in Hebrew whereby wisdom is a she (feminine). Pay attention to these passages...they actually fit with this discussion on more than one level.

Prov 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Is wisdom a woman? No. We read this in Proverbs whereby the translators chose to retain the gender of the Hebrew noun. Why? Who knows?

In modern latin-based languages like French, a house and a table are feminine. Are they people? no.

On a hot day, we say "Il fait chaud" It's hot....(literally "he makes hot")

So then your understanding is based on a lack of understanding.

A telephone also speaks to us. Do we look at a phone thinking it is a person because it can speak with us, guide us, and direct us?

I think spiritually many are still at a caveman level of understanding.

Calling the Trinity “ caveman”. Blasphemy

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Salvation is a person, not a formula.
Do the vows have equality with the marriage?
If they do, it is shallow and legal.

Yes.

But saying you believe in Christ

And saying you believe in the death burial and resurrection.

are both the same.

When you say you believe in Christ you are saying yes to all he did..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There can be no higher walk when one denies the True and Living God. That would be what is known as an oxymoron. . By definition its a flesh walk, a lower walk and has nothing to do with the Person of the Holy Spirit . That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is Born of the Spirit is Spirit.

No Holy Spirit-no new birth. Just mans religion like the pharisees who had the higher walk over everyone else living in the flesh and lording their religion over others.

And we know what Jesus thought of them. The truth was hidden from them.

Amen

When you do not even acknowledge who he is or what he does.

how can you say you have faith in him.. let alone walk like him