IS THERE ONLY WATER BAPTISM?

[Doug]

that is law we live under grace you can have your water baptism salvation which == works we do .i am no longer in this strange fire discussion

Just saying you said it wasnt Biblical, I showed it was, dispensational is another matter altogether
Finally you continue to say I teach water baptism for our salvation, which I do not

 

[Ezra]

I teach water baptism for our salvation, which I do not

when you say water baptism saves that's what your saying. 1peter 1:21
The like figure to this, even baptism, doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,..beyond that i done been called moron because i disagreed .. my good nature wears thin when it becomes name calling.. ..you never did answer why Jesus was baptized immersed in water . i have read and witnessed mockery of how he was baptized

 

[doctrox]

why Jesus was baptized immersed in water . i have read and witnessed mockery of how he was baptized

What of Jesus' baptism? John protested:

But John forbade [Jesus], saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? (Mat. 3:14).

And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. (Mat. 3:15).

Jesus was the perfect spotless Lamb of God; he didn't need his sins washed away. Rather, Jesus asked John to accommodate him, because it made sense for them "to fulfill all righteousness". So John went ahead and baptized Jesus. The end of the old, and the start of the new.

So what does "to fulfill all righteousness" mean?

Well, Jesus was born into a Jewish family; circumcised at 8 days of age; taken to the temple at 12 years of age; raised in all the disciplines of the Jewish religion. And now he does this one final Jewish ritual, marking the end of his Jewishness and the start of a deeper revelation. The end of the old, and the start of the new.

Jesus came to replace, fulfill, render useless, the law of Moses:

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it (Luke 16:16). The end of the old, and the start of the new.

There is only one Lord, one faith, and one baptism via the Holy Ghost!

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body... (1 Cor. 12:13).

 

[Ezra]

There is only one Lord, one faith, and one baptism via the Holy Ghost!

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body... (1 Cor. 12:13).

i agree with you ,,but lol i was wanting doug to answer .he is so heavy on water baptism saves john baptism was of repentance external only Jesus baptism spirit--eternally

 

[doctrox]

i agree with you ,,but lol i was wanting doug to answer .he is so heavy on water baptism saves john baptism was of repentance external only Jesus baptism spirit--eternally

Ok! It's a blessing that it's not our job to convict anyone. We declare the truth and we move on.

 

[Doug]

when you say water baptism saves that's what your saying. 1peter 1:21
The like figure to this, even baptism, doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,..beyond that i done been called moron because i disagreed .. my good nature wears thin when it becomes name calling.. ..you never did answer why Jesus was baptized immersed in water . i have read and witnessed mockery of how he was baptized

Unless I am wrong way back you said we should be water baptized following salvation. I asked why there is no instructions for it if we should do it.
Water baptism washed away Israel's sin NOT OURS. Water baptism saved believing Israel to enter the kingdom on earth

[John 1:31 KJV] "And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water."...........Jesus's water baptism was to make him known to Israel
[Matthew 3:14 KJV] "But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?"
[Matthew 3:15 KJV] "And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.".............Jesus was baptized to fulfill. all righteousness. The law required priest's to be washed with water and Jesus is High Priest. Jesus was baptized along with sinful Israel.
[Matthew 3:16 KJV] "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:"
[Matthew 3:17 KJV] "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."..................Jesus fulfilled the prophets at his baptism...............[Psalm 2:7 KJV] "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

 

[Ezra]

Water baptism washed away Israel's sin NOT OURS. Water baptism saved believing Israel to enter the kingdom on earth

nope no amount of water ever washed any sins away .. it may represent symbolically . beyond that every o.t sacrifice was of the blood .. Cain and Abel sacrifice able brought a yearling--- brought of the first lings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: in the tabernacle there was a blood sacrifice.. the priest did have go through a ceremonial cleaning to enter the tabernacle ,,beyond that it was all Blood even at that in the o.t it was only temporal .. where Christ sacrifice is eternal


Hebrews 9:13
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hebrews 10

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.


4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:.


once again if you hold to water forgiving of sins have at it

 

[Doug]

nope no amount of water ever washed any sins away .. it may represent symbolically . beyond that every o.t sacrifice was of the blood .. Cain and Abel sacrifice able brought a yearling--- brought of the first lings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: in the tabernacle there was a blood sacrifice.. the priest did have go through a ceremonial cleaning to enter the tabernacle ,,beyond that it was all Blood even at that in the o.t it was only temporal .. where Christ sacrifice is eternal


Hebrews 9:13
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hebrews 10

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.


4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:.


once again if you hold to water forgiving of sins have at it

[Hebrews 10:4 KJV] "For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins."............The blood of bulls and goats couldnt take away sins yet God accepted it for the forgiveness of Israel's sins..............[Leviticus 17:11 KJV] "For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul."

God accepted the blood of animals and water baptism to forgive their sins based on the shed blood of Christ.

 

[Ezra]

God accepted the blood of animals and water baptism to forgive their sins based on the shed blood of Christ.

sure he has gezz i dont know what doctrine your using ..but it aint Bible ..i am have shot your water baptism down several times.. were done

 

[mailmandan]

18 Because also Christ once for sin did suffer—righteous for unrighteous—that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit, 19in which also to the spirits in prison having gone he did preach, 20who sometime disbelieved, when once the long-suffering of God did wait, in days of Noah—an ark being preparing—in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
21 Also to which an antitype doth now save us—baptism, (not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the question of a good conscience in regard to God,) through the rising again of Jesus Christ, 22who is at the right hand of God, having gone on to heaven—messengers, and authorities, and powers, having been subjected to him.

Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase, he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

So, by Peter saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony in H20. The saving power is in Christ’s resurrection, not in the act of being dipped in water. Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household).

*The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, only the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.

 

[DJT_47]

Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase, he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

So, by Peter saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony in H20. The saving power is in Christ’s resurrection, not in the act of being dipped in water. Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household).

*The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, only the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.

Bottom line is BAPTISM SAVES according to Peter. Why? Does it matter what God's logic is, the why? No! BAPTISM SAVES US.

 

[mailmandan]

Bottom line is BAPTISM SAVES according to Peter. Why? Does it matter what God's logic is, the why? No! BAPTISM SAVES US.

Bottom line JESUS SAVES US according to Peter, as he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

Based on your biased interpretation, you are turning a symbol into a savior.

 

[DJT_47]

Bottom line JESUS SAVES US according to Peter, as he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

Based on your biased interpretation, you are turning a symbol into a savior.

Yes, absolutely I'm biased to what the scriptures ACTUALLY say, and in here it says BAPTISM SAVES US.. That's all you need to know and believe, and it can't be explained away by silly words, secondary explainations, or supplemental dumb logic. BAPTISM SAVES US, so, the converse is or should be as obvious. Without it you're NOT saved. Pretty simple, so simple that even YOU should be able to understand!

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, absolutely I'm biased to what the scriptures ACTUALLY say, and in here it says BAPTISM SAVES US..

You are absolutely biased to what the scriptures say OUT OF CONTEXT and OUT OF HARMONY with the rest of scripture. You heard all you needed to hear from part of that verse then applied your EISEGESIS and discarded the rest.

That's all you need to know and believe, and it can't be explained away by silly words, secondary explainations, or supplemental dumb logic. BAPTISM SAVES US, so, the converse is or should be as obvious. Without it you're NOT saved. Pretty simple, so simple that even YOU should be able to understand!

So, you continue to dissect the part of that verse that tickles your ears and accommodates your biased church doctrine. You even said, "without it you're NOT saved," which demonstrates that you teach a "different" gospel of "dipped or condemned." What did Jesus say? John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The truth is not hard to understand. It's just hard for you to ACCEPT.

 

[DJT_47]

You are absolutely biased to what the scriptures say OUT OF CONTEXT and OUT OF HARMONY with the rest of scripture. You heard all you needed to hear from part of that verse then applied your EISEGESIS and discarded the rest.

So, you continue to dissect the part of that verse that tickles your ears and accommodates your biased church doctrine. You even said, "without it you're NOT saved," which demonstrates that you teach a "different" gospel of "dipped or condemned." What did Jesus say? John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The truth is not hard to understand. It's just hard for you to ACCEPT.

Exactly! The truth is simple and not hard to understand, so simple that in biblical times it was clearly understood audibly by the simple peasants of the day that heard it preached to them verbally. Believe and be baptized to be saved. You are a moron.

 

[mailmandan]

Exactly! The truth is simple and not hard to understand, so simple that in biblical times it was clearly understood audibly by the simple peasants of the day that heard it preached to them verbally. Believe and be baptized to be saved. You are a moron.

Mark 16:16 says he who believes and is baptized will be saved (now read the rest) but he who does not believe will be condemned. Condemnation rests on a lack of belief and not on a lack of baptism. *See John 3:18. You seem to have a pattern of building doctrine on only part of a verse while ignoring the rest.

In (John 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25-26) Jesus connects receiving eternal life with believing (with no mention of baptism). *Hermeneutics. If he who believes will be saved then he who believes and is baptized will be saved as well. However, who did Jesus say would be condemned?

 

[Titus]

Mark 16:15-16,
- and He said to them, go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature,
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved but he that believeth not shall be damned

First Jesus commands His disciples to preach His gospel to the whole world,
- He said to them, go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature...

Next Jesus tells how His gospel saves:
- he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved....

Next Jesus tells who will not be saved:
- but he that believeth not shall be danmed

Question: What verse does Jesus teach how to be saved by
His gospel?
Answer: - he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved

Question: what verse teaches who wont be saved?
Answer: - he that believeth not will be condemned


Now when someone reads Mark 16:16 and has been taught to say you are saved by belief and not baptism by quoting the end of the passage: - he that believeth not will be condemned

They have quoted the  wrong section of the verse where Jesus tells us how to be saved!!!

Quoting the end of the passage while leaving out where Jesus says believing and baptism saves is absolutely taking only part of a verse that applies to your personal beliefs and discarding the rest.

 

[Titus]

But also...

Can someone be saved if they trust baptism washes away sins?
Acts 22:16,
- and now why tarriest thou, arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord

According to the faith only churches like baptists and the like, no you cannot be saved.

Faith onlyist reasoning: " If you put your trust in baptism then you are not putting trust in Jesus Christ fully to save you. You don't believe Jesus can save you on His own."

So the doctrine condemns doing anything other than trusting fully that Christ can accomplish your salvation by His sacrifice alone.

But,
If that be true Biblical doctrine then...

Believing I must believe to be saved is something more, than Jesus saving alone without you needing to do something to be saved.

Believing on Christ is something you must do for Jesus alone to save you.
Likewise,
Believing and being baptized, Mark 16:16, is something you must do for Jesus alone to save you.


So if believing one must be baptized to be saved is not fully trusting in Jesus alone to save.
Then believing I must believe in Jesus for Jesus to save me is also not trusting in Jesus alone to save.

Both require something you must do so that Jesus will save you.

Therefore the doctrine that teaches you do not trust in Jesus if you believe you must do something to be saved also applies to the very men who hold to this doctrinal error.

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus never said the gospel was baptized or condemned. In Mark 16:16, Jesus said - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned.

The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. *NOWHERE did Jesus say, "whoever is not baptized will be condemned."

If the gospel included "baptized or condemned" then God would not make so many statements in scripture in which He promises eternal life to those who simply BELIEVE. (John 1:13; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; 16:31; Romans 4:5-6; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

The gospel that Paul preached did not include "baptized or condemned." Paul said the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Roman 1:16)

In 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul said that Christ did not send him to baptize, but to preach the gospel, which would be redundant for him to say if baptism was a part of the gospel that saves.

Also, in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, Paul stated the gospel that saves is Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures.

It's critical that we read scripture in context and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine. Otherwise we end up with contradictions and a false gospel.

 

[Titus]

The faith onlyist has been taught that Jesus only said - ...he that believeth not will be condemned
Therefore it has been explained to them that Jesus did not include baptism only belief for salvation.

Grammar doesn't need to list everything that is required under faith for it to be apart of Jesus' saving gospel.

For example Jesus told the Jews,
Luke 13:3,
- I tell you, nay but except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish

What is stated is required for the Jews to be saved from destruction.
Therefore we can conclude that what was not stated in this verse is not required?
Is that that right conclusion?

Using this reasoning faith in Jesus is not required because Jesus only stated repentance.

Now using this same reasoning with Mark 16:16,
- ...he that believeth not shall be condemned

It only states believing not will be condemned.
Therefore confession is not required to be saved,
Romans 10:9-10,
- that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thy heart that God has raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved

- for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation

Since the last part of Mark 16:16 only says - he that believeth not shall be condemned
Then repentance is not required to be saved.
Acts 17:30-31,
- and the times of this ignorance God winked at but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent
- because He hath appointed a day in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained whereof He hath given assurance unto all men in that He hath raised Him from the dead

Faith is the first requirement of God in His gospel.
Everything else that God requires is acted upon his faith.

One believes.
One repents because he now has faith in Jesus and the word of God.
One confesses his faith because he now believes.
One is commanded to be baptized, so he is baptized because he believes what Jesus says.
One lives a faithful life to Christ because his faith motivates him to believe Jesus rewards the faithful.

Since all these things flow from ones faith.
One who has no faith will not do any of these requirements God has given.
Therefore when Jesus said,
Mark 16:16,
- ...he that believeth not shall be condemned, Jesus did not need to say anything else!!!
Because without faith it is impossible to please God, Hebrews 11:6.
And without faith being baptized will accomplish nothing.

Jesus requires belief and baptism. Not one or the other!!!

Grammatically Jesus does not need to say, - he that believeth not and is baptized not shall be condemned

Just as grammatically Jesus does not need to say,
- he that believeth not and he that repenteth not and he that confesseth not and he that is baptized not and he that calleth not upon the name of the Lord shall be condemned.

It is understood by reading the whole context of the verse.
Mark 16:16,
- he that believeth and is baptized will be saved; he that believeth not shall be condemned