Is true Christianity a religion?

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May 25, 2017
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Your definitions are correct but that is not what was said. What was said by you is that faith has a tangible result component and I have already expressed my opinion that faith is not tangible. If faith has a tangible component then it is not faith.

To say you have faith in something intangible, not seen or felt, it is faith in things not seen, felt or tangible. My statement = faith, (belief, trust, confidence) is not tangible or capable of being touched. What you are indicating is that an intangible activity brings about a tangible results and I disagree with you. Since I disagree with you that makes my argument ""nonsensical and intangible."" === what ever!

The scripture says that God is a Spirit and those that worship Him must do so in the spirit (faith). Without faith it is impossible to please God. It does not say that a person must worship God with tangible activities. You are saying that.

Dear H. Richard, you have made a couple of mistakes in your post. Strictly speaking faith is persuasion, if you want to know what you believe, all you, or anyone, must do is look at your works; your works are the perfect mirror image of your faith. Second, spirit is the active force that causes someone to move, while faith is the persuasion that motivates someone, while they are similar, they are not the same.

Faith without works is dead (or that is to state: "persuasion without works, is to not be persuaded"); faith absolutely has a tangible component: it is one's works.

Be at peace my friend.
 
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skypair

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Under the Abraham covenant any one blessing the Jews were promised a blessing from God.
Still true today.

Nothing was said to Cornelius about the shed blood of Jesus atoning for his sins or having faith in the work of Jesus on the cross.. No, Cornelius was not saved under grace. He became a proselyte under the Jewish Law of Moses.
Are you talking about Acts 10? No, Cornelius was NEVER a proselyte of the Jews. He as under the everlasting gospel placed there by God who he acknowledged, worshiped, and thanked, Ro 1:20. Then when Peter visited him at God's command, Peter preached the gospel of Jesus Christ to him and he and his household were saved under grace.

See, this is how messed up the "mid-Acts" view is.

If you can prove by the scriptures that Jesus and His apostles told the Jews they did not have to keep the Law of Moses you can win this argument. But it is not there so I win.
In Matthew 3:2, you will see what they preached .. "Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." That is NOT calling them to the law. And even under that new covenant, "repentance unto life" (Ro 11:18, Acts 2:38, 3:19, 17:30/Paul, 26:20/Paul) is commanded.

As I see it you are mixing what Jesus and Peter said to the Jews in with the gospel of grace as Paul taught it.. If you are comfortable with that then continue to do so. But I will not do it. The scriptures tell us that we must RIGHTLY DIVIDE the word of God, not blend it all together.
You are correct to make the difference between the gospels (before the cross, "gospel of the kingdom") and the epistles and Acts (after the cross, "gospel of Jesus Christ"), you should know that both were centered 1) in Christ (coming or has come), 2) on repentance from sin, and 3) on turning to God in faith.

But, like you say, it is your choice .. but heaven and hell are in the balance.

skypair
 

justaname

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Your definitions are correct but that is not what was said. What was said by you is that faith has a tangible result component and I have already expressed my opinion that faith is not tangible. If faith has a tangible component then it is not faith.

To say you have faith in something intangible, not seen or felt, it is faith in things not seen, felt or tangible. My statement = faith, (belief, trust, confidence) is not tangible or capable of being touched. What you are indicating is that an intangible activity brings about a tangible results and I disagree with you. Since I disagree with you that makes my argument ""nonsensical and intangible."" === what ever!

The scripture says that God is a Spirit and those that worship Him must do so in the spirit (faith). Without faith it is impossible to please God. It does not say that a person must worship God with tangible activities. You are saying that.
No you are nonsensical and intangible because of your interchange of concepts and topics. Semantics...

But rather than doing this he said she said thing, with you continually building straw-men lets look to this passage...

"Look at Galatians 5:6, a crucial text in seeing Paul and James in harmony with each other. "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love." So when Paul dealt with the abuse of his doctrine of justification by faith alone, he said: It's not added works like circumcision that will win God's favor. What then? It is "faith working through love." Notice very carefully what he says. What counts with God? "Faith." But what kind of faith? Faith that "works through love." He does not say that what counts with God is "faith" plus a layer of loving works added to faith. He says that what counts with God is the kind of faith that by its nature produces love. But it is faith that gives us our right standing with God. The love that comes from it only shows that it is, in fact, real living, justifying faith."

Taken from:
Does James Contradict Paul? | Desiring God

I used the word tangible faith, here the author uses justifying faith. My friend there is only one gospel given by Jesus and the apostles. Christ is not divided.
 

Frank N

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By any meaningful, common-usage definition, Christianity is definitely a religion. To say otherwise is dishonest. It's theistic and is based on a concept of a supernatural domain.
 

Frank N

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"Christianity is the only "religion" that is NOT based on belief alone, but is founded upon an infrastructure of first-hand witnesses who "know" the facts." -- Christianity was the first religion in the ANE to be about what you believe, not what you do. All the other religions were about the sacrifices and other rituals. Only Christianity had a belief as an absolute requirement.

I'm afraid we have no credible first-hand witness to Christianity. The gospels are anonymous hearsay, written at least 4 decades after the fact. None even claims to be eyewitness. Even Paul never met Jesus, but instead had a dream / vision. The ancients considered them to be sources of knowledge.
 

Frank N

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Under the Abraham covenant any one blessing the Jews were promised a blessing from God. ...

If you can prove by the scriptures that Jesus and His apostles told the Jews they did not have to keep the Law of Moses you can win this argument. But it is not there so I win.

Not quite. Genesis 12 was to all the descendants of Abraham, thus the Arabs as well as the Jews.

According to the synoptic gospels, Jesus never taught anything contrary to Torah. If one of his disciples (direct students) contradicted that, they would quickly cease to be a disciple. Paul, on the other hand, taught much which blatantly contradicted Torah. The most blatant was that there was no need to offer any sacrifices. That alone wipes out a large share of Torah.
 
May 25, 2017
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No you are nonsensical and intangible because of your interchange of concepts and topics. Semantics...

But rather than doing this he said she said thing, with you continually building straw-men lets look to this passage...

"Look at Galatians 5:6, a crucial text in seeing Paul and James in harmony with each other. "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love." So when Paul dealt with the abuse of his doctrine of justification by faith alone, he said: It's not added works like circumcision that will win God's favor. What then? It is "faith working through love." Notice very carefully what he says. What counts with God? "Faith." But what kind of faith? Faith that "works through love." He does not say that what counts with God is "faith" plus a layer of loving works added to faith. He says that what counts with God is the kind of faith that by its nature produces love. But it is faith that gives us our right standing with God. The love that comes from it only shows that it is, in fact, real living, justifying faith."

Taken from:
Does James Contradict Paul? | Desiring God

I used the word tangible faith, here the author uses justifying faith. My friend there is only one gospel given by Jesus and the apostles. Christ is not divided.

Actually, Paul's gospel differs from Jesus's gospel.

While Jesus preached the gospel from the moment he came out of the wilderness, and it had nothing to do with the cross, Paul states very clearly to preach not the gospel of Jesus, but to preach his own. in Romans 2 verse 16 we read: "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

And again, Paul tells Timothy, in 2 Timothy 2 verse 8: "Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel."

The problem is that Jesus told the Apostles to go an preach the gospel to all nations. The gospel Jesus is referring to is not the gospel of Paul, but is the one he started preaching when he came out of the wilderness.

Paul preached a gospel based upon the resurrection, while Jesus preached one based on forgiveness: through turning from sin, to his teachings of mercy and forgiveness, love to all (especially your enemies) and detachment of and from materialism, but make no mistake this is not Paul's gospel, for Paul hardly utters Jesus's words at all.
 
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eldios

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Where did you get that definition?

From God. No created man is going to sit around and worship the INVISIBLE source of life called God but everything that comes from that source of life is what we experience with our created senses. Those who worship Satan and the beast are of this world until it is destroyed on the day of the Lord. Then we will all be worshiping according to the knowledge of God called Christ, the eternal information that will be processed into all the visible images and invisible thoughts in the next generation after the day of the Lord.
 

eldios

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Actually, Paul's gospel differs from Jesus's gospel.

While Jesus preached the gospel from the moment he came out of the wilderness, and it had nothing to do with the cross, Paul states very clearly to preach not the gospel of Jesus, but to preach his own. in Romans 2 verse 16 we read: "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

And again, Paul tells Timothy, in 2 Timothy 2 verse 8: "Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel."

The problem is that Jesus told the Apostles to go an preach the gospel to all nations. The gospel Jesus is referring to is not the gospel of Paul, but is the one he started preaching when he came out of the wilderness.

Paul preached a gospel based upon the resurrection, while Jesus preached one based on forgiveness: through turning from sin, to his teachings of mercy and forgiveness, love to all (especially your enemies) and detachment of and from materialism, but make no mistake this is not Paul's gospel, for Paul hardly utters Jesus's words at all.

There is only ONE voice ( gospel ) of God and that is the voice that all us servants called prophets and saints have heard speaking directly into our minds. The voice of God then speaks commands into our minds to get us ready to start speaking for God so we become the voice of God so that other chosen believers can hear His voice speaking to them. Believers don't hear the voice of God speaking directly into their minds but they can hear us servants preach it to them but only if they are chosen to listen to Him.

II Thesalonians 2:
13: But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
14: To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Even Abraham heard the voice of God speaking directly into his mind;

Galations 3
8: And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."
 
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There is only ONE voice ( gospel ) of God and that is the voice that all us servants called prophets and saints have heard speaking directly into our minds. The voice of God then speaks commands into our minds to get us ready to start speaking for God so we become the voice of God so that other chosen believers can hear His voice speaking to them. Believers don't hear the voice of God speaking directly into their minds but they can hear us servants preach it to them but only if they are chosen to listen to Him.

II Thesalonians 2:
13: But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
14: To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Even Abraham heard the voice of God speaking directly into his mind;

Galations 3
8: And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."

Eldios, can you tell me what the gospel is? What is the good news: according to Jesus? Notice I am not looking for Paul's version, so please quote Jesus, not Paul.
 

eldios

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Eldios, can you tell me what the gospel is? What is the good news: according to Jesus? Notice I am not looking for Paul's version, so please quote Jesus, not Paul.

The gospel of God is the voice of God which first speaks directly in the minds of us chosen servants who end up being used to write and speak words for Him but not until we go through a justification process. This process is necessary to stop the influence of Satan and the beast within the mind before we can start testifying to the words formed in our mind from the information called Christ.

The false gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John do not contain any knowledge about the beast which is the most important information to understand to learn how we're created. None of these false gospels contain all the knowledge about the day of the Lord when everything on earth will be destroyed and they don't contain any knowledge about how we're going to live after the day of the Lord. Without this hidden knowledge that us servants testify to called Christ, it's impossible for anyone to know what the Truth is and how it was created. The Truth is not a human being named Jesus but Jesus was the first servant used to start the millennium reign of Christ that all us chosen servants testify to during this reign of Christ.

I am the last servant to be used to testify to this knowledge called Christ that revealed the last details of how we're created. Now that we know exactly what the Tree of Life is, we wait for the day of the Lord that will end this first temporary generation with a cataclysmic destruction with the fire of God, which is hot molten lava that will melt everything on earth back to the original state of the earth before anything existed on it.
 
May 25, 2017
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The gospel of God is the voice of God which first speaks directly in the minds of us chosen servants who end up being used to write and speak words for Him but not until we go through a justification process. This process is necessary to stop the influence of Satan and the beast within the mind before we can start testifying to the words formed in our mind from the information called Christ.

The false gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John do not contain any knowledge about the beast which is the most important information to understand to learn how we're created. None of these false gospels contain all the knowledge about the day of the Lord when everything on earth will be destroyed and they don't contain any knowledge about how we're going to live after the day of the Lord. Without this hidden knowledge that us servants testify to called Christ, it's impossible for anyone to know what the Truth is and how it was created. The Truth is not a human being named Jesus but Jesus was the first servant used to start the millennium reign of Christ that all us chosen servants testify to during this reign of Christ.

I am the last servant to be used to testify to this knowledge called Christ that revealed the last details of how we're created. Now that we know exactly what the Tree of Life is, we wait for the day of the Lord that will end this first temporary generation with a cataclysmic destruction with the fire of God, which is hot molten lava that will melt everything on earth back to the original state of the earth before anything existed on it.

"Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of."
 

JesusIsFaithful

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Maybe you misunderstand what is true Christianity is. Who defines Christianity? Paul or Jesus?

There is only one gospel. Paul has said what Jesus has led him to say.

Jesus stated to go into all the world and make disciplines of all nations.

One can say that the disciples that He had said this to, had done so at Pentecost because devout Jews from all nations under heaven were there.

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

There is evidence that His commandment is not literal as they were led by the Spirit not to preach at a nation or two at a certain time.

Acts 16:16 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

So God knows who is seeking Him from those that are not which is why we are to be led by Him to preach the gospel He knows are seeking Him.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

So God is keeping His promise to get the gospel to the ones seeking Him in Macedonia whereas it would be a waste of time elsewhere where no one was seeking Him at that moment in time in Acts 16th chapter.

A disciple is one disciplined in the teachings of a master. Jesus didn't stop with those words, rather he went on to state: "teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you". The teachings of Jesus are his commandments. Jesus is suppose to be our king and his words are to be the laws which govern our behavior.

Yes, true Christianity is a religion, but the church(I speak broadly of the majority of professed Christians) doesn't follow Jesus and they are not really Christians (followers of Christ).

Jesus began a good work in us and He will finish it. We are required to believe in Him that He is our Saviour that we are saved and now that we have been reconciled with God thru Jesus Christ, we are to believe in Him in being our Good Shepherd that He will help us to follow Him because we can only live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ as it is written, that the just shall live by faith.

If you find that following Jesus that the yoke is hard and the burden is heavy, then you need to trust Him today as your Good Shepherd in learning of Him as to why His yoke is easy and His burden is light; why little children are free to come to Him; and that is because all we can do is believe Him; trust Him at His word that He will help us to follow Him since He is in us and is with us always. What you cannot do.. you trust Him to help you to do.

That is how we get to know Him and the power of His resurrection when we believe in Him in trusting Him as our Good Shepherd and not just as our Saviour. Even I need His help to keep my eyes on Him as He helps me to walk with Him in this valley of death to fear no evil for He is with me always.
 

justaname

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Actually, Paul's gospel differs from Jesus's gospel.

While Jesus preached the gospel from the moment he came out of the wilderness, and it had nothing to do with the cross, Paul states very clearly to preach not the gospel of Jesus, but to preach his own. in Romans 2 verse 16 we read: "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

And again, Paul tells Timothy, in 2 Timothy 2 verse 8: "Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel."

The problem is that Jesus told the Apostles to go an preach the gospel to all nations. The gospel Jesus is referring to is not the gospel of Paul, but is the one he started preaching when he came out of the wilderness.

Paul preached a gospel based upon the resurrection, while Jesus preached one based on forgiveness: through turning from sin, to his teachings of mercy and forgiveness, love to all (especially your enemies) and detachment of and from materialism, but make no mistake this is not Paul's gospel, for Paul hardly utters Jesus's words at all.

8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."
9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. - Galatians 3:8-9

There is one gospel congruent through all the ages. The OT saints looked forward to the coming Christ, the prophet promised by Moses:

17 And the LORD said to me, 'They are right in what they have spoken.
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.
19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him. - Deuteronomy 18:17-19

while the NT saints look back to Christ crucified. Jesus preached the Kingdom of God, of which He is King. Once resurrected the mission Jesus proclaimed changed, but the gospel itself remained the same. It is in and through faith we are justified, both Jew and Gentile.

Jesus is Paul's Lord, and all Scripture is God breathed. One, and only one gospel was given by God to be proclaimed by man amongst the nations. Christ is not divided.

18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." - Matthew 28:18-20

Note: This is the resurrected Christ speaking. So what is it that Jesus is speaking about concerning "all I have commanded you"? We know this:

He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God. - Acts 1:3

And by Paul's account we know:

Paul, an apostle-not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead- - Galatians 1:1

11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel.
12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. - Galatians 1:11-12

So then these commands Jesus describes must align with Paul's apostolic mission.

And speaking to the commandments John explains:

23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. - 1 John 3:23-24

This then also agrees with Paul's gospel of faith working through love:
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love. - Galatians 5:6

The gospel is not divided. You are confused.
 
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8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."
9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. - Galatians 3:8-9

There is one gospel congruent through all the ages. The OT saints looked forward to the coming Christ, the prophet promised by Moses:

17 And the LORD said to me, 'They are right in what they have spoken.
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him.
19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him. - Deuteronomy 18:17-19

while the NT saints look back to Christ crucified. Jesus preached the Kingdom of God, of which He is King. Once resurrected the mission Jesus proclaimed changed, but the gospel itself remained the 4:eme. It is in and through faith we are justified, both Jew and Gentile.

Jesus is Paul's Lord, and all Scripture is God breathed. One, and only one gospel was given by God to be proclaimed by man amongst the nations. Christ is not divided.

18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." - Matthew 28:18-20

Note: This is the resurrected Christ speaking. So what is it that Jesus is speaking about concerning "all I have commanded you"? We know this:

He presented himself alive to them after his suffering by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God. - Acts 1:3

And by Paul's account we know:

Paul, an apostle-not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead- - Galatians 1:1

11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel.
12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. - Galatians 1:11-12

So then these commands Jesus describes must align with Paul's apostolic mission.

And speaking to the commandments John explains:

23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. - 1 John 3:23-24

This then also agrees with Paul's gospel of faith working through love:
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love. - Galatians 5:6

The gospel is not divided. You are confused.

One of us is confused... Jesus clearly stated in John 12: 46I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Again in John 3 we read: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Jesus came to turn men to the light by changing their "deeds" and now we read in Matthew 5: 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of "these" least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Which commandments is Jesus referring to ,when he states "these" commandments? He is referring to his words, that he uses to usurp the 10 commandments with, and all the other commandments he issued during the sermon on the mount..

Again we read in John 12, continuing from the verse mentioned above:


47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

The teachings of Christ are his commandments.

When Jesus came out of the wilderness Matthew states in chapter 4:From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand...And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom...
When one understands that Jesus is King, as the term Christ references exactly that, then the picture of Matthew 4 and Matthew 5 as shown in the verses above come into focus.

The reason the kingdom of heaven was at hand was because Jesus is the Christ/King; the gospel of the kingdom are his words as he is the King: his words are his commandments.

You ask: "So what is it that Jesus is speaking about concerning "all I have commanded you"? " Then you go and use Paul's word to base your beliefs on and disregard all of the words of Christ.

Jesus stated his words will judge mankind on the last day, but you totally disregard Jesus and make a belief contrary to his. It is belief in the authority of Christ that saves a man, but how can you believe in his authority if you don't submit to it? Why call me Lord Lord and do not the things that I say? You have a belief not based upon Christ as King, but based upon your own created belief system, that has nothing to do with Jesus as Christ.
 
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