Is Truth Relevant? True and False are opinions. - True or False?

[St. SteVen]

You think distorting scripture is a small thing?

Where did I say that?

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[St. SteVen]

Excerpt from OP.

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?​

Jesus said to Pilate,
"... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.
Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - (John 18:37-38)

Still a good question.

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

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[St. SteVen]

From the OP.

Jesus said to Pilate,
"... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.
Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - (John 18:37-38)

Still a good question.

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Should we be as frightened of the word "truth" as we are of the word "false"?

- Someone may claim the something is false. But that's only their opinion. Even if they claim it is "biblical".
- Someone may claim the something is true. But that's only their opinion. Even if they claim it is "biblical".

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[MatthewG]

It really just depends on one’s perspective. In the end the truth objectively , say like the people written the Bible were the ones waiting of Jesus to return, but tradition continues to say Jesus is still coming. Which one is the truth? Does it boil down to faith again? Will Yahavah help you understand? It’s said “Yahavah gives wisdom to those who seek him out and he gives it willingly to all who do.

Do I believe my teachers? Do I believe what other people say? Do I believe John’s words when it comes to him sharing the words of Jesus when he is returning quickly which must mean without delay, not 2000 years later?

What is truth? Can you seek truth? Yes. Do we desire to get as close to the truth as we can?

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

Does the Bible contradict itself? - Reader Poll (and discussion)

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[St. SteVen]

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?​

Jesus said to Pilate,
"... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.
Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - (John 18:37-38)

Still a good question.

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

[

 

[Lambano]

My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless - I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice - was full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.

I never could follow Lewis's argument here. I don't see how being able to conceive of meaningfulness proves that meaningfulness must exist, or how it necessarily follows there must be a God or god for the concept of meaningfulness to exist.

 

[Lambano]

Is Truth Relevant?​

Truth is relevant if it corresponds to reality.

 

[Lambano]

I found the history of non-Euclidean geometry to be interesting. Euclid's system held up for a thousand years and was a paradigm for how Western philosophy should work because it was "applicable to tables and beer mugs", to quote one of the authors. Theorems derived from basic definitions, some assumed postulates, and the rules of logic. However, Euclid's fifth postulate, "If a straight line falling on two straight lines makes the interior angles on the same side less than two right angles, then the two straight lines, if produced indefinitely, will meet on that side" is kinda clunky, so a Jesuit priest named Giovanni Saccheri decided to assume the postulate was false and see if it led to a contradiction of the other 4 postulates. It turns out that what is now called "hyperbolic geometry" is just as valid a system as the Euclidean geometry we learned in school. That upset Father Saccheri because having two mutually contradictory but "true" systems is an attack on the concept of Absolute Truth, which would be the same as an attack on the existence of God himself. (Saccheri was a Christian first, mathematician second.) So, he found an imaginary flaw and published a paper defending Euclid. Other mathematicians developed the hyperbolic system more fully.

So what's the reality? One of our deep space probes went out beyond the orbit of Pluto (where the Sun's gravity well doesn't warp space as much) with a laser experiment designed to see if the angles of a triangle add up to less than 180 degrees, which is logically equivalent to Euclid's fifth postulate. Note that the experiment couldn't prove Euclid; it could only disprove him. The experiment showed that 180 degrees fell within the precision of the measuring equipment, so the jury is still out on which "truth" corresponds to reality.

And Euclid still applies to "tables and beer mugs".

 

[Wick Stick]

I never could follow Lewis's argument here. I don't see how being able to conceive of meaningfulness proves that meaningfulness must exist, or how it necessarily follows there must be a God or god for the concept of meaningfulness to exist.

Isn't it just relativity? All measurements are made relative to something. There has to be a yardstick by which to measure.

Should one remove the objective standard, only a subjective standard exists. Measurements made using a subjective standard aren't meaningful to society.

By that logic, if we measure truth or righteousness, ethics trump morals.

 

[lforrest]

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?​

Jesus said to Pilate,
"... the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.
Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?" - (John 18:37-38)

Still a good question.

Absolute truth - Do we know what it is?

[

Truth is immutable and original, unbound by time. Some things may be factually true but only with a certain understanding. Anything which requires some other requisite understanding in order to be true, is not original truth. I'd bet that most everything considered true today requires a requisite understanding which is conditional.

The only thing I can think of that could be free of needing any prior understanding are the words spoken by God to create all things. They must be true because reality was made according to his dictate.

 

[Gottservant]

I have a disagreement with the idea that it is the "relevance" of the truth, that needs to be weighed.

The truth is people would rather agree than disagree about the truth; the thing is coming to agreement about the truth, takes more than mere words.

If you focus on "relevance", but you don't address 'experience' (can we agree on what the experience of truth is?) then you are just adding words to words?

 

[St. SteVen]

New Topic.

How does your life experience inform your theology and doctrines?

On another thread I made this observation: "I find it interesting that our life experience informs our theology and doctrines." The person I was speaking with had a completely different life experience than mine. And these experiences had shaped their theology and doctrines. Have you given...

www.christianityboard.com

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