Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

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bbyrd009

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Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

ok oops the def of "salvation" most ppl are working with here would still be "going somewhere special after i have literally died" i guess right charity?
 

CovenantPromise

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Precisely the kind of answer I expected from a person with your profound ignorance . . .
Prove that with scripture please. It would seem you are not too hip to that. Phallic symbols and everything and God does not care, it is okay.
Job 22:23
If thou return to the Almighty, thou shalt be built up, thou shalt put away iniquity far from thy tabernacles.

2 Corinthians 6:15-17
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? …

Deuteronomy 16:?
21Do not set up any wooden Asherah pole next to the altar you will build for the LORD your God, 22and do not set up for yourselves a sacred pillar, which the LORD your God hates.
But according to BOL (BUNCH OF LTES) God changed His mind and decided He loves them. I guess there is a thin line between love and Hate.:rolleyes: Imaaaagine. Back to reality :confused:NOT!
 

bbyrd009

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Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

ok oops the def of "salvation" most ppl are working with here would still be "going somewhere special after i have literally died" i guess right charity?
i'd like to open the Q to all who hold to the ritual baptism, any literalists reading here; what does the pastor say as you are descending, and then ascending?

may i ask why you dont take that literally?
 
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BreadOfLife

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Prove that with scripture please. It would seem you are not too hip to that. Phallic symbols and everything and God does not care, it is okay.
Job 22:23
If thou return to the Almighty, thou shalt be built up, thou shalt put away iniquity far from thy tabernacles.

2 Corinthians 6:15-17
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? …

Deuteronomy 16:?
21Do not set up any wooden Asherah pole next to the altar you will build for the LORD your God, 22and do not set up for yourselves a sacred pillar, which the LORD your God hates.
But according to BOL (BUNCH OF LTES) God changed His mind and decided He loves them. I guess there is a thin line between love and Hate.Imaaaagine. Back to reality NOT!
Is there an altar of the Lord next to the obelisk in St. Pater’s Square??
Nope.

YOUR problem is that you don’t understand these verses that have to go with pagan worship that the Israelites were guilty of many times over. R*E*A*D your Bible and you will see for yourself. God was constantly telling them not to engage in this – and even articulated it in the First Commandment.

Like I said before – you watch too many movies and don’t read enough Scripture.
 

bbyrd009

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New International Version
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

New Living Translation
And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

English Standard Version
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Berean Study Bible
And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Berean Literal Bible
which also prefigures the baptism now saving you, not a putting away of the filth of flesh, but the demand of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

New American Standard Bible
 

Ernest T. Bass

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BreadofLife said:

Wrong
.

Original Sin is a stain we are ALL marked with. If it weren’t – Christ wouldn’t have had to come down and sacrifice His very self. The evidence of this our flawed condition as humans - and death.


Rom. 5:12-21 sums this up

Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, AND THUS DEATH CAME TO ALL, INASMUCH AS ALL SINNED— for up to the time of the law, sin was in the world, though sin is not accounted when there is no law.

BUT DEATH REIGNED FROM ADAM TO MOSES, EVEN OVER THOSE WHO DID NOT SIN AFTER THE PATTERN OF THE TRESPASS OF ADAM, WHO IS THE TYPE OF THE ONE WHO WAS TO COME.

Grace and Life through Christ.
But the gift is not like the transgression. For if by that one person’s transgression the many died, how much more did the grace of God and the gracious gift of the one person Jesus Christ overflow for the many.

And the gift is not like the result of the one person’s sinning. For after one sin there was the judgment that brought condemnation; but the gift, after many transgressions, brought acquittal.

For if, by the transgression of one person, death came to reign through that one, how much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of justification come to reign in life through the one person Jesus Christ.

In conclusion, JUST AS THROUGH ONE TRANSGRESSION CONDEMNATION CAME UPON ALL, so through one righteous act acquittal and life came to all.

For just as through the disobedience of one person the many were made sinners, so through the obedience of one the many will be made righteous.

The law entered in so that transgression might increase but, where sin increased, grace overflowed all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through justification for eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Here, Paul explains Original Sin better than anybody else. ALL were condemed because of Adam's sin.

The man made idea of original sin is usually attributed to Augustine and made more popular by men like John Calvin. From Wikipedia " Augustine's formulation of original sin after 412 CE was popular among Protestant reformers, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, who equated original sin with concupiscence (or "hurtful desire"), affirming that it persisted even after baptism and completely destroyed freedom to do good. Before 412 CE, Augustine said that free will was weakened but not destroyed by original sin.[2] But after 412 CE this changed to a loss of free will except to sin"

Original sin was never taught by Christ, nor His Apostles nor any Bible prophet.

Romans 5 refutes original sin:

Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

"have sinned" shows one's personal culpability in sinning and not how was passively born a sinner against his will.

++++++++++++

Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

If everyone was born having passively inherited Adam's sin, then all would be guilty of the same sin. Yet verse 14 speaks of those whom death reigned over yet they committed transgressions different from Adam. Hence they died as a result of their own sinning and not as a result of inheriting sin from Adam. If they died as a result of Adam's sin, then there would be no difference made between Adam's sin and their sin.

There would have been no need for Paul to spend the first three cahpters of Romans proving both Jew and Gentile are sinners and quoting many verses to prove they were if all were born dead having inherited Adam's sin. Yet nowhere in the frist three chapters of Romans where Paul concludes all have sinned does Paul even mention the idea of original sin. There would not be a more apt context than Romans chapters 1-3 for Paul to declare all are sinners for having inherited Adam's sin. Yet Paul shows in those chapters that sin is a transgression (1 John 3:4) men choose to commit not something passively inherited against their will.

++++++++++

Romans 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Paul does NOT say man were made sinners UNCONDITONALLY by Adam's transgression as he did NOT say many shall be UNCONDTIONALLY made righteous by Christ's perfect obedience. Calvinists read the idea of UNCONDITIONALLY made sinners into the verse.

1) Rom 5:19 is a if - then type statement. IF it is true that all are UNCONDITIONALLY made sinners by Adam's transgression, THEN it is equally true that same many will have UNCONDITONALLY inherited Christ's righteousness and you have created Universalism.

2) men are made sinners as Adam was made a sinner. Adam chose to sin and transgress God's law. Likewise, men today choose to transgress God's law (1 John 3:4) therefore conditionally made sinners for having chosen to sin (Romans 5:12). Men are conditionally made righteous for having chose to obey (Romans 6:16 - "obedience unto righteousness"). There is no example in the Bible of one declared righteous by God without first conditionally obeying God's righteous commands.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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WRONG.
And this is proved by verses like John 21:21-23 and Exod. 33:19.

God's will have mercy on WHOMEVER He wills - not who YOU think He should.

The verse does NOT say there is no basis as to why God will have mercy upon one person and not another. God does not act in a capricious manner in extending His mercy. Just because Romans 9:18 does not give a basis does not mean no basis exists at all.

Jeremiah 18:7-10:
At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them
.

Obedience to God's will is the basis as to whether one will receive God's mercy or not. The king of Nineveh obeyed God and received mercy (Jonah 3) while Pharaoh did not obey God and did not receive mercy.


=========

Hebrews 6:18 "That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie,..."

It is impossible for God to lie, impossible for God to break a promise. So when God says faith saves, then God will not save the faithless else He lies. When God says repentance saves then He cannot save the impenitent else He lies. When God says baptism saves He will not save the unbaptzed else He lies. When God says He will show mercy to those that obey Him then He will not show mercy to the disobedient else He lies.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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i'd like to open the Q to all who hold to the ritual baptism, any literalists reading here; what does the pastor say as you are descending, and then ascending?

may i ask why you dont take that literally?
I know of no words that must be spoken over the one being baptized. Baptism "in the name of Jesus Christ" (Acts 2:38) with the phrase "in the name of" meaning by the authority of Jesus Christ. One is saved for having obediently submitted to God's command to be water baptized where they will have all their sins washed away by the blood of Christ. They are not saved by some formula of words being spoken over them while they are being baptized.

Is a Word Formula Required in Administering Baptism?
 

Nancy

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'One Lord, one faith, one baptism,'
(Eph 4:5)

Hi @CNKW3,

The question is not mine, for I have no doubt that water baptism ceased to be a requirement when Israel went away into blindness at the end of the Acts period, during which time two baptisms ran together (water and spirit): but in Ephesians (written following that event) the instruction, concerning the unity of the Spirit, makes clear that there is ONE baptism only, and that has to be of the Spirit.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Totally agree here Chris, I see water baptism confession with our words.

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved". Romans 10:9

This is actually what happens with water baptism...a confession among others of our new faith in Christ.
xo
 
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bbyrd009

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I know of no words that must be spoken over the one being baptized.
I didn't say anything about any words that must be spoken at all, m bass?
nor about what you know?
So imo you are not replying for a good reason, i guess
which is your right, preach on bro
("nevermind that, what about this?")
 

Helen

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i'd like to open the Q to all who hold to the ritual baptism, any literalists reading here; what does the pastor say as you are descending, and then ascending?
may i ask why you dont take that literally?


Haha!! Good point. In the 60's when I was baptized...the old pastor used ...the dead to the old, alive to the new verses...but it took me about two decades to really understand the truth of that. My life in the Lord would have been much smoother IF I had believed it then.

And no...as you probably guessed, I am not a hard and fast- "must be baptised in water to be fully saved."

It wasn't God ( as such) that told me to get baptised in water ...it was the pastor...so I did! lol
 
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Nancy

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Haha!! Good point. In the 60's when I was baptized...the old pastor used ...the dead to the old, alive to the new verses...but it took me about two decades to really understand the truth of that. My life in the Lord would have been much smoother IF I had believed it then.

And no...as you probably guessed, I am not a hard and fast- "must be baptised in water to be fully saved."

It wasn't God ( as such) that told me to get baptised in water ...it was the pastor...so I did! lol

Hi Helen,
I agree water baptism is not going to save anyone. At my Church, when someone baptizes someone (and it in not always the Pastor doing it) They ask the person to claim with their mouths their commitment to Christ, before dunking them, they say something to the effect of "You have been buried with Christ...(and as they are about to dunk them) they say ... and are raised with newness of life, Christ Life." I do love to watch them...before hand, they each give their testimony.
 
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BreadOfLife

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The verse does NOT say there is no basis as to why God will have mercy upon one person and not another. God does not act in a capricious manner in extending His mercy. Just because Romans 9:18 does not give a basis does not mean no basis exists at all.

Jeremiah 18:7-10:
At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

Obedience to God's will is the basis as to whether one will receive God's mercy or not. The king of Nineveh obeyed God and received mercy (Jonah 3) while Pharaoh did not obey God and did not receive mercy.

=========

Hebrews 6:18 "That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie,..."

It is impossible for God to lie, impossible for God to break a promise. So when God says faith saves, then God wi
ll not save the faithless else He lies. When God says repentance saves then He cannot save the impenitent else He lies. When God says baptism saves He will not save the unbaptzed else He lies. When God says He will show mercy to those that obey Him then He will not show mercy to the disobedient else He lies.
And the Thief on the cross was obedient - at the end. God showed mercy on him because he was penitent but did not have the opportunity to be Baptized. He would have had he not been hanging on a cross.

John 21:21-23 and Exod. 33:19 are about letting God do what HE wills - and not what YOU will.