Is water baptism necessary for salvation?

[charity]

Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of Thee, and comest thou to me?
And Jesus answering said unto him,
Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.
Then he suffered him.
And Jesus, when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water:
and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him,
and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon Him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.'
(Matthew 3:13-17)
Hello @FHII,

So there were four things that were accomplished by the events of the baptism of Christ and covered by the Lord's words highlighted above regarding the fulfilling of all righteousness:-

1) The lighting of the Spirit of God on Christ made Him known to John the Baptist and by extension, to Israel.
2) Christ’s anointing set Him apart for service to God, (e.g., OT precedent - Exodus 28:41)
3) The voice from heaven showed that Christ was the beloved Son of God.
4) It also showed that this One Who had been baptized was the promised King of Israel.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Enoch111]

Water baptism should be understood in the light of the way that the Jew of Jesus day would have done so, in order to do that reference to the Old Testament is necessary.

That does not apply to Christian baptism. It was John's baptism that was for Israel. But Christian baptism is totally different as regards its significance and its application.

 

[charity]

That does not apply to Christian baptism. It was John's baptism that was for Israel. But Christian baptism is totally different as regards its significance and its application.

Acts 13:23-24
Acts 18:25-28

Hello @Enoch111,

This is a very interesting subject, and one worthy of a thorough Scriptural investigation.

Though baptism identifies the One baptised with the Word which he has received and believed: whether the Word given is that preached by John, and the medium used being water; or the Word of God concerning the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son; which is in spirit, and by the operation of the Spirit.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Enoch111]

Though baptism identifies the One baptised with the Word which he has received and believed: whether the Word given is that preached by John, and the medium used being water; or the Word of God concerning the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son; which is in spirit, and by the operation of the Spirit.

You are trying to unnecessarily complicate baptism. John the Baptist's baptism was strictly for Israel in order to prepare the Jews to receive Christ as their Messiah. Christian baptism follows the baptism with the Holy Spirit, and Christ is the Baptizer with the Spirit. And we see the contrast in the way that the disciples of John were given the truth in the book of Acts.

The problem with Hyper Dispensationalism is that it teaches Christians that Christian baptism is no longer valid. AND THAT IS TOTALLY FALSE.

I will post separately (in my next post) the errors of Hyper Dispensationalism or Bullingerism.

 

[Enoch111]

Beware of Hyper Dispensationalism

Hyper (or Ultra) Dispensationalism simply means going above and beyond Dispensationalism in order to create new and bizarre doctrines. Their teachers claim to be “rightly dividing the Word of Truth” when in fact they are teaching false doctrines. The names of Bullinger, Stam, O’Hair, Welch, Sellers, Knoch, Baker, Stauffer, etc are connected with this kind of Bible interpretation. Here are some of their bizarre ideas:

1. The four Gospels are entirely Jewish and contain no direct teaching for the churches.

2. The book of Acts is also largely Jewish and the Church is not present until the end (or close to the end of Acts)

3. There are two different churches in the book of Acts, the “Kingdom Church” and the true “Pauline church” only started after Acts 9, 13, or 28.

4. The mysteries given to Paul are a different revelation from that given to Peter and the other Apostles, and only Paul’s prison epistles are directly for the church today.

5. The gospel preached by Peter in the early part of the book of Acts is different from the gospel preached by Paul, and Paul is the only apostle given to the Church.

6. Baptism and the Lord’s Supper were given to Paul before he received the church age mysteries; thus they are not for the churches today. (All are not agreed on both points).

7. The one baptism of Ephesians 4 automatically cancels water baptism.

8. There are different ways of salvation in the Old Testament and during the Tribulation.

9. The general epistles from Hebrews to Revelation, while containing some church age applications, are actually written for Great Tribulation saints!

10. The Bride of Christ is not the Body of Christ but Jewish.

Not one of these teachings is true, and it would take numerous posts to show this from Scripture. But the only problem is that those who hold to false doctrines refuse to give them up even after they see the Scriptures which refute their beliefs. So it is up to each one to search the Scriptures for themselves.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

This preceded literal water baptism, which is for a showing of a good conscience toward God.

In fact,
Ernest T. Bass said: ↑

--It is commanded, disciples have been commanded to go and baptize and men have been commanded to be water baptized Acts of the Apostles 10:47-48.

One Baptism

GE said:

Inserting here Acts 10:47-48 simply is inopportune and tactless. With doing so you treat the foregoing EVENT OF REAL APOSTOLIC BAPTISM as of no consequence or Gospel authenticity, "44 WHILE Peter YET SPAKE THESE WORDS, THE HOLY SPIRIT fell on all them which HEARD THE WORD .. because was POURED OUT THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST" even the REBIRTH unto eternal Life "46 WHEREFORE Peter exclaimed: 47 NO WATER NOR ANY MAN can prevent that these which received the Holy Ghost ARE (not) BAPTISED", thus identifying the Gift or Pouring Out of the Holy Ghost with apostolic baptism commissioned by the risen Lord Jesus WHILE IN GALILEE (v37) when He showed Himself to the apostles after "the third day He rose from the dead" -- a DIRECT reference to the 'great commission' given the eleven apostles in Matthew 28 and Mark 16.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Psalm 22:14 KJV
[14] I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
This is a Messianic reference to the sufferings of Christ. (I don't see baptism here at all.)

Correct!

 

[Waiting on him]

In fact,
Ernest T. Bass said: ↑

--It is commanded, disciples have been commanded to go and baptize and men have been commanded to be water baptized Acts of the Apostles 10:47-48.

One Baptism

GE said:

Inserting here Acts 10:47-48 simply is inopportune and tactless. With doing so you treat the foregoing EVENT OF REAL APOSTOLIC BAPTISM as of no consequence or Gospel authenticity, "44 WHILE Peter YET SPAKE THESE WORDS, THE HOLY SPIRIT fell on all them which HEARD THE WORD .. because was POURED OUT THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST" even the REBIRTH unto eternal Life "46 WHEREFORE Peter exclaimed: 47 NO WATER NOR ANY MAN can prevent that these which received the Holy Ghost ARE (not) BAPTISED", thus identifying the Gift or Pouring Out of the Holy Ghost with apostolic baptism commissioned by the risen Lord Jesus WHILE IN GALILEE (v37) when He showed Himself to the apostles after "the third day He rose from the dead" -- a DIRECT reference to the 'great commission' given the eleven apostles in Matthew 28 and Mark 16.

So Peter is saying no need for the literal water.
Why do so many read that and say Peter is commanding them to go be submerged?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

So Peter is saying no need for the literal water.
Why do so many read that and say Peter is commanding them to go be submerged?

Because just about every and all translators are believers in water-baptism. They translate biased and disregard precise word- and grammar meanings, and context, due to all-time uncontested Roman Catholic doctrinal intimidation.

 

[Grams]

Eph. 2:
7
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Marymog]

Baptism is required. Water 'baptism', an element of this non-eternal world, 'baptism' is not. Only Jesus can baptize us into His body, His kingdom realm. Jesus, God, is Spirit. Therefore, all must be 'immersed' into Jesus Christ and maintain 'immersion' into Jesus Christ. That's what true 'baptism' is. Not a one-time sprinkle, dunk, or etc. But a continual 'immersion' spiritually.

A true baptism is ALSO a sprinkle or a dunk in/with water. Scripture makes that very clear.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

A true baptism is ALSO a sprinkle or a dunk in/with water. Scripture makes that very clear.

You love the word, 'ALSO'...
Colossians 2:12 buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
"In baptism buried" is "buried" in the "baptism wherein also ye are risen with Him". Both "buried" and "raised" are true in the one and only "baptism .. of the operation of God, who hath raised Him from the dead." You die with, that is, in Christ "of the operation" or of the <mortification> "of God" -- of the God who is <The Spirit> that <mortifies> ... or you don't in which case therefore you shall not "ALSO be raised / risen with / in Him", Christ. The idea water would mean anything is arbitrary and irrelevant and superfluous-- the working of God in Christ cannot be improved upon or added to.

The believer is "buried", viz., <mortified> "with Him in baptism through the faith of the operation of God", viz., <The Spirit>, AS MUCH AS he is "also raised / risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God", viz., <The Spirit>! No less mortified by the Holy Spirit than revived or resurrected by the Holy Spirit. Only Jesus has the Power to lay down life as well as take up life again, his own as well as yours and mine.

 

[charity]

You are trying to unnecessarily complicate baptism. John the Baptist's baptism was strictly for Israel in order to prepare the Jews to receive Christ as their Messiah. Christian baptism follows the baptism with the Holy Spirit, and Christ is the Baptizer with the Spirit. And we see the contrast in the way that the disciples of John were given the truth in the book of Acts.

The problem with Hyper Dispensationalism is that it teaches Christians that Christian baptism is no longer valid. AND THAT IS TOTALLY FALSE.

I will post separately (in my next post) the errors of Hyper Dispensationalism or Bullingerism.

Hello @Enoch111,

Thank you for your response, and it's follow-up entry (#565): but I do not wish to get into a debate about what is termed Hyper-dispensationalism, not in this thread, for it will derail it.

I believe that believer's baptism is of the spirit, and by the Holy Spirit, and that water plays no part in it. (That is also what Dr E.W. Bullinger believed) It is the One Baptism of Ephesians four, which is part of the sevenfold unity of the Spirit which Paul told the Ephesian believers to endeavour to keep.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[reformed1689]

In another thread, the subject of water baptism has intervened into the subject of the thread, and threatens to divert (The Hope Of The World). This subject can be a contentious one, but I hope it can be approached with love on all sides.

On the side of the necessity for water baptism for salvation, certain verses were quoted in that thread by a participant, which could provide a starting point.

John 3:5, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:21

Simply put...no.

 

[historyb]

A true baptism is ALSO a sprinkle or a dunk in/with water. Scripture makes that very clear.

Not many evangelicals understand what baptism is so go to perdition by make up fairy tales like "Baptism isn't necessary just believe" when demons just believe.

 

[charity]

Not many evangelicals understand what baptism is so go to perdition by make up fairy tales like "Baptism isn't necessary just believe" when demons just believe.

Hello there, @historyb & @Marymog,

Baptism is of the spirit, and performed by the Holy Spirit, it is not an option that we can choose to 'do' or not to 'do'. It is a work of God in Christ Jesus, by which we are sealed. There is no water involved, be it complete immersion or sprinkling. Religious flesh glories in anything it can do, it panders to it's sense of self-righteousness: it is something that can be boasted of. Believer's baptism does not give the flesh anything to glory in: save in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ; Who is his Saviour and Lord, by which he is identified with Christ, in His death, burial, quickening and resurrection to life everlasting.

The believer's life is 'hid' with Christ in God, and when He (Christ) appears in glory, he will appear with Him there (Colossians 3:2).

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Marymog]

Hello there, @historyb & @Marymog,

Baptism is of the spirit, and performed by the Holy Spirit, it is not an option that we can choose to 'do' or not to 'do'. It is a work of God in Christ Jesus, by which we are sealed. There is no water involved, be it complete immersion or sprinkling.
Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Charity.

So the NT Christians say water was involved. The historical writings from the 1st century Christians, who walked and talked with the Apostles, say water was involved but you say water wasn't involved.

Now I am in a dilemma. Should I believe them our you?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Not many evangelicals understand what baptism is so go to perdition by make up fairy tales like "Baptism isn't necessary just believe" when demons just believe.

Only a Roman Catholic

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Hello there, @historyb & @Marymog,

Baptism is of the spirit, and performed by the Holy Spirit, it is not an option that we can choose to 'do' or not to 'do'. It is a work of God in Christ Jesus, by which we are sealed. There is no water involved, be it complete immersion or sprinkling. Religious flesh glories in anything it can do, it panders to it's sense of self-righteousness: it is something that can be boasted of. Believer's baptism does not give the flesh anything to glory in: save in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ; Who is his Saviour and Lord, by which he is identified with Christ, in His death, burial, quickening and resurrection to life everlasting.

The believer's life is 'hid' with Christ in God, and when He (Christ) appears in glory, he will appear with Him there (Colossians 3:2).

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

God be with you and protect you and richly bless you with his grace and love.

This is the most able and humblest and most honest testimony and confession of SCRIPTURE TRUTH I have seen in my entire life. Glory to God, He lives and still rules all his creation as all True Believers.

 

[charity]

Hi Charity.

So the NT Christians say water was involved. The historical writings from the 1st century Christians, who walked and talked with the Apostles, say water was involved but you say water wasn't involved.

Now I am in a dilemma. Should I believe them our you?

Hello @Marymog,

No dilemma! Thank you for your further reply.

* Water baptism was used in conjunction with baptism by the Spirit during the Period covered by the book of the Acts of the Apostles, and recorded in the epistles of Paul written during that period:- i.e., 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Romans and Hebrews, and the other apostolic writings of the time. However in chapter 4, and verse 5 of the epistle to the Ephesians (written after that period), the Apostle Paul clearly says that only ONE Baptism should have part in the unity of the Spirit, which they were to keep.

* I cannot tell you why the 1st century Christians chose to continue the use of water baptism, but it could have something to do with the fact that many would not receive the word, given to Paul by revelation (see quote below) concerning the church which is His Body (Ephesians 1:22-23), for it was 'unsearchable' (Ephesians 3:8), therefore 'unverifiable' by recourse to the Old Testament Scriptures having been 'hid in God' since the foundation of the world (Ephesians 3:9).

'Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.
(2 Timothy 1:13-15 - Paul's last letter before his death)

* John the Baptist himself told of a baptism other than water baptism, which the Lord would perform, which superseded his own:-

'I indeed have baptized you with water:
but He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.'
(Mark 1:8)

'For John truly baptized with water;
but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.'
(Acts 1:5)

* Also baptism without water is the subject of such Scriptures as, 1 Corinthians 10:2, in which there is no water, for Moses and the children of Israel went over dry-shod, so it is not without precedent (Matthew 20:22-23) Here again baptism is spoken of in terms of identification.

* You must do what you must do, Marymog,

I leave you within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.

Chris