Is wearing jewellery with the cross or crucifix a form of idolatry?

[epostle1]

YOU did not answer my question. Is the Edict of Milan a False Document? a simple yes or no will do!

The Edict of Milan of 313 AD is not a false document. It is a CIVIL law, not a CHURCH law. It was proclaimed by the SECULAR government, not the CHURCH. Contrary to the psychotic babbling of anti-Catholics, especially the Baptist "Trail of Blood" there was no council in 313 AD. Most of the Edict is about returning property stolen from Christians, and freedom of religion was granted to all, not just Christians. The Church went from being persecuted to being protected.

Read it for yourself:
Internet History Sourcebooks Project

 

[epostle1]

You should read about Nehushtan. In itself it was not evil. Its purpose was not evil when it was made. Quite the contrary, yet when Hezekiah was king he had it broken into pieces.

That's true. The bronze snake was made under God's command. It was a physical object. Hezekiah had it destroyed when people started worshiping it. It's really sad when people refuse to make the distinction between an object made under God's command and lumping every object in sight as an idol, including a crucifix. (which is a fulfillment of the bronze snake to begin with)

According to radical iconoclasts, these Christian CDs is idolatry, because their "graven image" of the artists is on the cover:

The brain is a physical object, therefore using it would be idolatry. That's no less silly than the objection to crosses.

 

[epostle1]

No exceptions for what is in nature. Artifacts are man-made.

You are perfectly correct. Only those artifacts which take on a spiritual or superstitious meaning are to be avoided.

I Kings 6:23-36; 7:27-39; 8:6-67 – Solomon’s temple contains statues of cherubim and images of cherubim, oxen and lions. God did not condemn these images that were used in worship. According to you, these man made artifacts, with spiritual meaning, makes God an idolatror. Your radical iconoclasm is anti-biblical, self defeating, illogical, and absurd.

You must never watch a movie or TV, that would be staring at a series of graven images.

 

[Truth]

The Edict of Milan of 313 AD is not a false document. It is a CIVIL law, not a CHURCH law. It was proclaimed by the SECULAR government, not the CHURCH. Contrary to the psychotic babbling of anti-Catholics, especially the Baptist "Trail of Blood" there was no council in 313 AD. Most of the Edict is about returning property stolen from Christians, and freedom of religion was granted to all, not just Christians. The Church went from being persecuted to being protected.

Read it for yourself:
Internet History Sourcebooks Project

Thank You ! At least I know it is a True Document, at least according to you. I will look into the link!

 

[GUANO]

Technically speaking, it's Idolatry and Talismanic Magic/Witchcraft. With that being said, it's the least of our concerns in today's day and age where magical rite/ritual is engrained into our every transaction... So much for 'secular' society.

If your conscience is bothering you about it then you should take heed. A crucifix is certainly a 'highly charged' talisman which can evoke a great many different types of spirits depending on who is doing the viewing...

 

[epostle1]

Technically speaking, it's Idolatry and Talismanic Magic/Witchcraft. With that being said, it's the least of our concerns in today's day and age where magical rite/ritual is engrained into our every transaction... So much for 'secular' society.

If your conscience is bothering you about it then you should take heed. A crucifix is certainly a 'highly charged' talisman which can evoke a great many different types of spirits depending on who is doing the viewing...

It's always wise to review the previous posts, instead of jumping in at the end with a wrecking ball.
The iconoclastic aversion to anything physical regarding crosses, statues, paintings, stained glass windows etc. is not in the Bible, it's a false man made tradition. If you think these things invoke spirits, you should tell your doctor, you have a mental illness.

 

[GUANO]

It's always wise to review the previous posts, instead of jumping in at the end with a wrecking ball.
The iconoclastic aversion to anything physical regarding crosses, statues, paintings, stained glass windows etc. is not in the Bible, it's a false man made tradition. If you think these things invoke spirits, you should tell your doctor, you have a mental illness.

Did you really just argue that "aversion to man-made beliefs and institutions is a man-made tradition?" That doesn't make any sense. I think you're using your apologetics jargon incorrectly.

Here it is, in simple terms:

1) Spirit is defined as an attitude or principle that inspires, animates, or pervades thought, feeling, or action

2) Offense is a "spirit" characterized by annoyance or resentment brought about by a perceived insult to or disregard for oneself or one's standards or principles.

3) The Crucifix is offensive to some

If you intentionally wear something that is meant to manipulate your own thoughts or feelings or the thoughts or feelings of another you are defacto practicing witchcraft/sorcery. It's a very tough pill for many to swallow.

Many Christians don't realize that even giving a person a "dirty look" was considered witchcraft in a court of law in many nations for thousands of years... And it should be, because that's what it is... Now, should people be punished for that? Not my decision.

 

[Enoch111]

God did not condemn these images that were used in worship.

None of those artifacts were used in worship. So you have once again misrepresented what is in Scripture.

Indeed, only the high priest could enter into the Holy of Holies (wherein was the Ark of the Covenant with the cherubim) and that too ONLY ONCE A YEAR (on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement). And only very briefly.

 

[epostle1]

Did you really just argue that "aversion to man-made beliefs and institutions is a man-made tradition?" That doesn't make any sense. I think you're using your apologetics jargon incorrectly.

Here it is, in simple terms:

1) Spirit is defined as an attitude or principle that inspires, animates, or pervades thought, feeling, or action

2) Offense is a "spirit" characterized by annoyance or resentment brought about by a perceived insult to or disregard for oneself or one's standards or principles.

3) The Crucifix is offensive to some

If you intentionally wear something that is meant to manipulate your own thoughts or feelings or the thoughts or feelings of another you are defacto practicing witchcraft/sorcery. It's a very tough pill for many to swallow.

Many Christians don't realize that even giving a person a "dirty look" was considered witchcraft in a court of law in many nations for thousands of years... And it should be, because that's what it is... Now, should people be punished for that? Not my decision.

Simple jewelry, especially a cross, doesn't manipulate thoughts or feelings. That's paranoia. It's a mental illness. I have little patience with ignorant funnymentalist Bible cults who lean towards the false religion of Manicheanism, and are not even aware of it.

If a crucifix is offensive, then perhaps they should see an exorcist.

2 Sam. 6:7 – the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Would that be idolatry or witchcraft?

2 Sam. 6:16 King David leap for joy before the Ark. To you he is practicing witchcraft or idolatry.

Deut. 5:8 – God’s commandment “thou shall not make a graven image” is entirely connected to the worship of false gods. God does not prohibit images to be used in worship, but He prohibits the images themselves to be worshiped. This is too deep for paranoid iconoclasts to grasp.

Exodus 25:18-22; 26:1,31 – for example, God commands the making of the image of a golden cherubim. This heavenly image, of course, is not worshiped by the Israelites. Instead, the image disposes their minds to the supernatural and draws them to God.
Did God command the making of idols or could there be something wrong with your interpretation?

Num. 21:8-9 – God also commands the making of the bronze serpent. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that lifts the mind to the supernatural. Such things are forbidden your system. BTW, the bronze serpent foreshadows the crucified Christ. Hyperliteralism resists the concept of foreshadow, or typology.

I Kings 6:23-36; 7:27-39; 8:6-67 – Solomon’s temple contains statues of cherubim and images of cherubim, oxen and lions. God did not condemn these images that were used in worship, but your system despises any physical devotional aid.

1 Chron. 28:18-19 – David gives Solomon the plan for the altar made of refined gold with a golden cherubim images. These images were used in the Jews’ most solemn place of worship. Is that idolatry, or witchcraft? DUH!

 

[GUANO]

Simple jewelry, especially a cross, doesn't manipulate thoughts or feelings. That's paranoia. It's a mental illness. I have little patience with ignorant funnymentalist Bible cults who lean towards the false religion of Manicheanism, and are not even aware of it.

Cool. I'll let you know if I find any duelist fundies then.

 

[Philip James]

why do you believe that wearing the cross or crucifix is not committing idolatry?

The crucifix is a beautiful symbol to remind us of just how much Jesus loves us, and how much we are called to love each other (and our enemies!)

It would be idolatry if I believed the crucifix WAS God, and worshipped it as such....

Peace!

 

[GUANO]

If a crucifix is offensive, then perhaps they should see an exorcist.

What you think about it doesn't matter. What matters is tempting others to offense.

2 Sam. 6:7 – the Ark is so holy and pure that when Uzzah touched it, the Lord slew him. This shows us that the Ark is undefiled. Would that be idolatry or witchcraft?

At the time, the Ark was not a deified object. It did not represent, to them, some mystical principle (an image of some thing in heaven) or some earthly creature (an image of some earthly thing). A crucifix does. For the record, I have no problem with crucifix's or any other religious "talisman"

2 Sam. 6:16 King David leap for joy before the Ark. To you he is practicing witchcraft or idolatry.

That's just ridiculous.

Deut. 5:8 – God’s commandment “thou shall not make a graven image” is entirely connected to the worship of false gods. God does not prohibit images to be used in worship, but He prohibits the images themselves to be worshiped. This is too deep for paranoid iconoclasts to grasp.

Scripture says this:
1) Do not make one
2) Do not worship one

The crucifix falls into multiple categories:
1) It is "a likeness of a thing that is in heaven" (An image that depicts a spiritual principle)
2) It is "a likeness of a thing that is under the earth" (An image related to ancestors/tradition)

Exodus 25:18-22; 26:1,31 – for example, God commands the making of the image of a golden cherubim. This heavenly image, of course, is not worshiped by the Israelites. Instead, the image disposes their minds to the supernatural and draws them to God.
Did God command the making of idols or could there be something wrong with your interpretation?

That's a great question. Perhaps if the image is directly inspired by God it is thus a true and honest representation of a spiritual principle rather than something that came from the abyss of the human imagination. What do you think? It's not the same thing? It's clearly the same thing, they're making images of things in heaven.

My own opinion is that they didn't actually understand what they were doing and that the rites and rituals of the Hebrews present a prophecy about Jesus Christ among other things that they could have not even possibly known—it was inspired.

Num. 21:8-9 – God also commands the making of the bronze serpent. The image of the bronze serpent is not an idol to be worshiped, but an article that lifts the mind to the supernatural. Such things are forbidden your system. BTW, the bronze serpent foreshadows the crucified Christ. Hyperliteralism resists the concept of foreshadow, or typology.

I don't have a "system", I've just studied ritual and ceremonial magic and am familiar with many 'systems'.

Again, this certainly looks no different than the practices of the pagan cultures that lived around them at the time. How do you rectify that? Either there is an exception if the practice is inspired or we stick our heads in the sand and claim that there is no similarity and thus miss out on the opportunity to understand what idolatry truly is.

I Kings 6:23-36; 7:27-39; 8:6-67 – Solomon’s temple contains statues of cherubim and images of cherubim, oxen and lions. God did not condemn these images that were used in worship, but your system despises any physical devotional aid.

1 Chron. 28:18-19 – David gives Solomon the plan for the altar made of refined gold with a golden cherubim images. These images were used in the Jews’ most solemn place of worship. Is that idolatry, or witchcraft? DUH!

I don't have a problem with any "physical devotional aid". You're assuming a lot about me. My main point is that we should all pay very close attention to everything we do, the objects we hold dear, the things we say to and about others, etc...

If you're questioning something in your spirit (such as the OP is), question it. Make up your own mind. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Perhaps you were "set off" by the words that I used—because I spoke of it as being akin to witchcraft. Maybe you should see an exorcist so you're not offended by mere words (yes, sarcasm itself could be lumped in with "dark speech" but it's also used in Scripture as well... so?)...

 

[epostle1]

The crucifix falls into multiple categories:
1) It is "a likeness of a thing that is in heaven" (An image that depicts a spiritual principle)

No, Jesus died once on earth, not in heaven. His death was very physical.

2) It is "a likeness of a thing that is under the earth" (An image related to ancestors/tradition)

That has nothing to do with a cross/crucifix.

A crucifix is not some mystical principle (an image of some thing in heaven) or some earthly creature (an image of some earthly thing), you have been deceived. It is a reminder of Christ's love for us. If you don't like them, that's your business, but you have no right to impose a man made scruple on those who appreciate a cross/crucifix for what it is, not your conjured up definitions.

 

[epostle1]

STATUE OF JOHN CALVIN, WHO BANNED ALL STATUES

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