Of course! But does that somehow mean that God doesn't work through our votes?
Much love!
Isaiah 3:14
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Much love!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
No it doesn't mean that God doesn't work through peoples votes.....it means that God's choices in these matters are authoritative.Of course! But does that somehow mean that God doesn't work through our votes?
Much love!
God's chosen people, the children of Israel, should have been under the control of God alone. That they were not was according to their own choice. When they had one man of God [Moses or Joshua] as a leader, and they followed their human leader and God faithfully, they were blessed. When they had judges, similarly when they followed God faithfully they were blessed. When Samuel, perhaps the best and last of the judges was getting old and running close to his end, the people they insisted on having a king like the all of the heathen around them. They had been mostly blind throughout the time since leaving slavery in Egypt as to how special they were and how blessed they could have been... if they had followed God faithfully. That was the root of their problem. Their problem was not the type of government they had. Their problem was because they insisted on choosing mammon so much of the time instead of God. Same kind of problem we should be able to see today, if we can see at all. Many seem to be blind.
Democracy is not the answer. A pure democracy would be ruled absolutely by the majority. The majority cannot be trusted to protect the rights of the minority opposition. Some or even many of the founding fathers of the United States recognized that when they attempted to provide protections for the minorities against the majority.
They recognized the potentially tyrannical nature of a majority in power and what that majority could and would do against minorities not in power. The first ten amendments to the Constitution were written in particular to prevent a belligerent or angry or careless or ignorant or stupid or selfish Congress and/or populace from easily voting away the rights of minorities.
Today, if you know a little history and you look around you, you will see that over time those protected rights have in spite of the protections eroded considerably from when we became a sovereign nation until today.
It was flawed from the beginning because men ruled instead of God. Men, ever so smart have found a way to get what they wanted... and here we are. God has had a lot of mercy on the United States, but like Israel of old, the sand of time is just about to run out.
There are many examples of the erosion of rights beginning from long before the Civil War, but for a recent glaring example, look at the Patriot Act passed into law in 2001 after the attack on the twin towers in NYC. It effectively diluted and in some cases eliminated the right to due process under law even for natural born citizens. I am not a lawyer, but that law was and is unconstitutional and should have been so declared. It was not the first breach nor the last. The barn door is already open and the animals, the beasts called men, are already passing through to freedom...? Ha! What some may call freedom! Where is freedom? Where is liberty?
The only answer for men today is God, but don't expect the majority of even those bearing the label of Christian to follow II Chron 7:14!
'If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."
If a majority of the people really strived to be like Jesus, it would one thing. But look around you! How much like Jesus are most of your friends and neighbors and family? Yes, we can vote, but God is not running for office... Whose fault is that? Help us dear Lord!
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I've been thinking about this thread this morning and how much unbelief I've seen in it. (And some true faith also!) If you cant believe Him about earthly/temporal things, like that He controls the course of world events and sets rulers in place and removes them, He will never be able to tell you about heavenly/eternal things.
If you will cling to the idea that men are the ones who control world events (by their vote), you have to remember that God can send a LYING spirit to influence men.
As for the earlier defense of Hitler and Pol Pot as some sort of proof that God does NOT control the course of world events, I find that I do not want to argue it at all. If you cannot believe God when He says He controls the course and sets in place and removes rulers, if you cannot listen to Him and believe He speaks true, there is certainly not anything I could say that would convince you. You will just continue to think your own arm and the arms of other men do these things.
If you will cling to the idea that men are the ones who control world events (by their vote), you have to remember that God can send a LYING spirit to influence men.
As for the earlier defense of Hitler and Pol Pot as some sort of proof that God does NOT control the course of world events, I find that I do not want to argue it at all. If you cannot believe God when He says He controls the course and sets in place and removes rulers, if you cannot listen to Him and believe He speaks true, there is certainly not anything I could say that would convince you. You will just continue to think your own arm and the arms of other men do these things.
I'm not sure you are understanding the distinction.
Are you thinking that all people should trust God by not voting for anyone? And to know that whomever it was that took over, by whatever means it turned out to be, that was God's choice?
Or do you mean that the believers shouldn't vote, and should let the voting all be done by the unbelievers, knowing whomever was elected by the ungodly is God's choice?
Or just that the rest of us less spiritual believers can vote, clinging to the idea that we, not God choose our leaders?
But the true idea is that we vote with the wisdom God provides, as an act of love towards our fellows, knowing that God chooses our leaders, and that this is a part of the process.
It's like Esther, I think, that if she wouldn't be a part of the solution, make no mistake, God would bring it from somewhere else but she wouldn't be saved by it.
Now, thankfully, God deals with us a children. But we certainly shouldn't disregard such things.
Much love!
Yes, I am thinking that all people should trust God.
Concerning voting, it's what the world does, so I expect men will vote. But I dont labor under any delusion that Gods kingdom is tied to or married to political kingdoms on earth. How would that be possible?
Sometimes His choice I guess. Other times His permitting. But whichever, it doesnt really matter because He works it all together for the good of those called by Him, who love Him. What anyone intends for evil, doesnt matter, not if He intends it for good. Darkness doesnt overcome Light. Darkness can not scatter or snuff out light, it doesnt work that way. Light scatters and snuffs out darkness.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I have wondered why Jesus never engaged the religious folk in lengthy debate.....I figure he knew it was pointless unless they had a heart for truth......anything else is just yada yada.
Behold
Well-Known Member
How about a Christian calling in to work, saying they are "sick", when in fact they are not, and just want a day off?
How about a Christian filing a Tax Return, and they lied?
How about, a Christian at work, who wastes time, does not do a good job, and still get the same pay as if they were a really good employee.
How about a Christian who is too lazy to take the food buggy and put it back in the parking lot buggy rack, and instead just leaves it in the parking spot for someone else to deal with, and then they just drive away.
Luke 2:46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
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