It all fits within Ezekiel 39

[grafted branch]

@Douggg

I’ve been doing some more digging at trying to find a previous reference to Gog prior to Ezekiel’s and found it in Numbers 24:7.

Numbers 24:7 (KJV) He shall pour the water out of his buckets, and his seed shall be in many waters, and his king shall be higher than Agag, and his kingdom shall be exalted.

Numbers 24:7 (LXX) There shall come a man out of his seed, and he shall rule over many nations; and the kingdom of Gog shall be exalted, and his kingdom shall be increased.

Agag and Gog are one and the same. Apparently there are some LXX manuscripts that use the word “Gogite” instead of “Agagite” in Esther 3:1 and Esther 9:24 (Lewis B. Paton, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Book of Esther, page 194).

What this means is that Haman in the book of Esther could very well be the Gog that Ezekiel is referring to, not some future military event.

 

[Behold]

Is saying "peace and safety" an indication of someone being in tribulation ?

Just look at Israel.
This is the SIGN.

Is there peace there?
How is it going there, = how close is the Trib to beginning.

 

[Douggg]

Just look at Israel.
This is the SIGN.

Is there peace there?
How is it going there, = how close is the Trib to beginning.

Hi Behold, it will be the whole world saying "peace and safety" in 1Thessalonians5:3 since the sudden beginning of the Day of the Lord affects the whole world.

What is close is the Gog/Magog event. Which will be followed by the 70th week. With most of the first half, the world thinking it has entered the messianic age of peace and safety.

 

[grafted branch]

@Douggg

In Ezekiel 38:2 Gog is referred to as the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.

Esther 3:1 After these things did king Ahasuerus promote Haman the son of Hammedatha the Agagite, and advanced him, and set his seat above all the princes that werewith him. 2 And all the king's servants, that were in the king's gate, bowed, and reverenced Haman: for the king had so commanded concerning him. But Mordecai bowed not, nor did him reverence.

Haman was a “chief prince” just as Gog was.

Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

The resting place of the army that invaded Israel is called Hamongog. The name “Hamon” is obviously quite similar to “Haman”. It is very plausible that Ezekiel 39:11 is simply saying that the place was called “the Valley of Haman the Agag”.

 

[Behold]

Hi Behold, it will be the whole world saying "peace and safety

Currently the world does not believe that its a safe place.

But, there is one coming, who will begin the Trib as a "man of peace", who will convince the world that "its all going to be fine".

So, for that one to come and talk about "peace", you have to have a world on fire.

Look outside.... as its just about to blaze, and then "In comes the Devil".

 

[Jay Ross]

There is no "guess".

The Trib is next.

The final 3 signs are in place.

1.) World Wide Jew Hatred

2.) Gog-Magog = Russia China Iran, they are on the way

3.) Worldwide Homosexuality on the rampage, . .and that includes "Transgender".

God's promise to Israel when they repent and are redeemed can be found in Ezekiel 34:20-31 and for a season Israel will live in peace upon the earth and then the tribulation will come after the judged Heavenly Hosts, i.e., the beasts and the Judged Kings of the earth are released from the Bottomless pit at the end of the season period. Yes the Great Tribulation will occur, but not in the immediate future. What we are witnessing at the moment is the time of Jacob's Troubles after which there will be a time of peace upon the earth for Israel and all people groups.

Ezekiel 34:20-31: - 20 'Therefore thus says the Lord God to them: "Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them — My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the Lord, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the Lord, have spoken.

25 "I will make a covenant of peace with them and cause the evil beasts to cease from the earth; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places all around My hill a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing. 27 Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase. They shall be safe within my fertile field; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke and delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. 28 And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the earth devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid. 29 I will raise up for them a garden of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger on the earth, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. 30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people," says the Lord God.'"

31 "You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God," says the Lord God.

This passage debunks your guess.

 

[Behold]

God's promise to Israel when they repent and are redeemed can be found in Ezekiel 34:20-31 and for a season Israel will live in peace upon the earth

There will be no more peace on the earth, until Jesus comes to reign for that 1000 yrs.

Till then :

"wars and rumors of wars"..

See ISRAEL for the update on that reality check.

 

[grafted branch]

Gog/Magog takes place in the latter years, latter days - as it says in Ezekiel 38:8 and Ezekiel 38:!6.

The phrase “in the end of days” <319> sometimes means in the end of the days that the speaker is referring to, context is everything. Ezekiel 38-39 taking place in the latter years/days doesn’t mean it has to take place during the end of the world’s existence, it can take place long before then.



Brown-Driver-Briggs on Ezekiel 38:16 in the end of the days, a prophetic phrase denoting the final period of the history so far as the speaker's perspective reaches; the sense thus varies with the context, but it often = the ideal or Messianic future.



Genesis 49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days <319>.

The phrase “in the last days” is the same phrase used in Ezekiel 38:16, but here it isn’t talking about the end of the world. These events happened in the lifetime of his sons, we don’t anticipate a future fulfillment.

 

[Keraz]

God's promise to Israel when they repent and are redeemed can be found in Ezekiel 34:20-31

The people 'Israel' is never mentioned in Ezekiel 34:11-31 Only the Land called Israel; the holy Land.
It is a mistake to think the current Jewish State of Israel will be redeemed and this Prophecy applies to them.

It refers to the faithful 'sheep' of the Lord, who are the Christian peoples. John 10:1-27
THEY will inherit the Land; Psalms 37:29, Ephesians 1:11-14

 

[Jay Ross]

There will be no more peace on the earth, until Jesus comes to reign for that 1000 yrs.

Till then :

"wars and rumors of wars"..

See ISRAEL for the update on that reality check.

Again, another guess as to what is to happen in our future.

The people 'Israel' is never mentioned in Ezekiel 34:11-31 Only the Land called Israel; the holy Land.
It is a mistake to think the current Jewish State of Israel will be redeemed and this Prophecy applies to them.

It refers to the faithful 'sheep' of the Lord, who are the Christian peoples. John 10:1-27
THEY will inherit the Land; Psalms 37:29, Ephesians 1:11-14

Presenting your replacement theology again. How sad it is.

 

[Douggg]

The phrase “in the end of days” <319> sometimes means in the end of the days that the speaker is referring to, context is everything. Ezekiel 38-39 taking place in the latter years/days doesn’t mean it has to take place during the end of the world’s existence, it can take place long before then.

I agree that the latter days, latter years does not mean the end of the world's existence, i.e. of this present world and the works therein destroyed right before the Great White Throne Judgment.

But the latter days, latter years right before the messianic age, Jesus's return, Second Coming, in Ezekiel 39:21-29..

If we take it to a higher level, the latter days, latter years, is when the mystery of God in Revelation 10:7 will be finished. The mystery of God is His dealings to end Satan and his angels collective activities to damage His creation.

 

[Douggg]

The people 'Israel' is never mentioned in Ezekiel 34:11-31 Only the Land called Israel; the holy Land.
It is a mistake to think the current Jewish State of Israel will be redeemed and this Prophecy applies to them.

It refers to the faithful 'sheep' of the Lord, who are the Christian peoples. John 10:1-27
THEY will inherit the Land; Psalms 37:29, Ephesians 1:11-14

keras (Keraz), could you provide the entire Ezekiel 38:8 verse from the 1989 reb -Bible translation you are using ?

 

[Douggg]

@Douggg

I’ve been doing some more digging at trying to find a previous reference to Gog prior to Ezekiel’s and found it in Numbers 24:7.

Numbers 24:7 (KJV) He shall pour the water out of his buckets, and his seed shall be in many waters, and his king shall be higher than Agag, and his kingdom shall be exalted.

Numbers 24:7 (LXX) There shall come a man out of his seed, and he shall rule over many nations; and the kingdom of Gog shall be exalted, and his kingdom shall be increased.

Agag and Gog are one and the same. Apparently there are some LXX manuscripts that use the word “Gogite” instead of “Agagite” in Esther 3:1 and Esther 9:24 (Lewis B. Paton, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the Book of Esther, page 194).

It appears that you have been doing a lot of research. Interesting that the LXX has Gog instead of Agag in the KJV.

What this means is that Haman in the book of Esther could very well be the Gog that Ezekiel is referring to, not some future military event.

The Gog/Magog event in Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39 is a lock as an endtimes event because of Jesus's return, Second Coming, in Ezekiel 39:21-29.

 

[Douggg]

@grafted branch

I think I may have found our answer to Ezekiel 38:17 about the prior mention Gog coming against Israel.

Ezekeil 38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

In Numbers 11, Moses was wore down being the sole leader of Israel, so God appointed 70 elders to help Moses - thus, beginning in verse 25 about the elders began prophesying.

24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.

25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

There were two of the elders, named Eldad and Medad, who prophesid in the camp, instead of near the tabernacle.

26 But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

So from those verses we know that prophesying was going on. But we are not told what.


Ezekiel 38:17 is actually in the form of a rhetorical question. 17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

So, although we don't have specific verse with Gog in it, it appears that possibly the 70 elders, some of them, had prophesied about Gog. Verse 17, appears to be saying that God had foretold about Gog to his prophets about Gog's aggression. That it was not just something that takes place by happen stance.

 

[grafted branch]

The Gog/Magog event in Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39 is a lock as an endtimes event because of Jesus's return, Second Coming, in Ezekiel 39:21-29.

Ezekiel 39:21-29 is one of the strongest argument for an ancient fulfillment of Ezekiel 38-39.

Ezekiel 39:29 (NIV) I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.

The next event after the events of Ezekiel 38-39 is the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the house of Israel. According to Peter, that event happened at Pentecost in Acts 2. Therefore, the events of Ezekiel 38-39 must have taken place before Pentecost.

 

[grafted branch]

@grafted branch

I think I may have found our answer to Ezekiel 38:17 about the prior mention Gog coming against Israel.

Ezekeil 38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

In Numbers 11, Moses was wore down being the sole leader of Israel, so God appointed 70 elders to help Moses - thus, beginning in verse 25 about the elders began prophesying.

24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.

25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

There were two of the elders, named Eldad and Medad, who prophesid in the camp, instead of near the tabernacle.

26 But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

So from those verses we know that prophesying was going on. But we are not told what.


Ezekiel 38:17 is actually in the form of a rhetorical question. 17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

So, although we don't have specific verse with Gog in it, it appears that possibly the 70 elders, some of them, had prophesied about Gog. Verse 17, appears to be saying that God had foretold about Gog to his prophets about Gog's aggression. That it was not just something that takes place by happen stance.

Yea, that would be a possibility. This probably fits with the idea that Gog was only spoken of verbally and not written down but that would favor an ancient fulfillment rather than a future fulfillment since we currently don’t know what those prophecy’s were.

 

[Keraz]

Presenting your replacement theology again. How sad it is.

You seem incapable of reading, let alone understanding Matthew 21:43
Christians bear the fruit of the Spirit, The Jews have lost the Kingdom and are never said to get it back.

 

[Douggg]

Ezekiel 39:21-29 is one of the strongest argument for an ancient fulfillment of Ezekiel 38-39.

Ezekiel 39:29 (NIV) I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign Lord.

The next event after the events of Ezekiel 38-39 is the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the house of Israel. According to Peter, that event happened at Pentecost in Acts 2. Therefore, the events of Ezekiel 38-39 must have taken place before Pentecost.

Take a look at this one though.

Ezekiel 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

The Jew don't currently believe that Jesus is the LORD their God. But going forward from the day that Jesus returns, they will change.

------------------------------------------------

In Ezekiel 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

In Ezekiel 39:17-20 the Armageddon event, which the kings of the earth, take council (Revelation 16:14-16) and gather their armies to make war on Jesus, results in those armies being destroyed in Revelation 19:21 and Zechariah 14:12.

Psalms 2
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. (Jesus's return)

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

In Ezekiel 39:21 again. Jesus sets his glory among the heathen. It is talking about His return with power and great glory (Matthew 24:30b).

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

 

[Jay Ross]

You seem incapable of reading, let alone understanding Matthew 21:43
Christians bear the fruit of the Spirit, The Jews have lost the Kingdom and are never said to get it back.

Keraz, you are living in a glass house and throwing stones at others. Be careful that no stones are thrown in your direction.

As for the Parable that you are referencing, the verses you are interpreting does not indicate who the "other people" are. You just want the "other tenants" to mean "Christians" and this is coming out of the silence of the passage.

Matt 21:40-44: - 40 When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” 41 They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord’s doing,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. 44 And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.”

Perhaps, Keraz, you need to understanding the context of the verses above and not jump to wrong conclusions in haste.

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them.

 

[Douggg]

God's promise to Israel when they repent and are redeemed can be found in Ezekiel 34:20-31 and for a season Israel will live in peace upon the earth and then the tribulation will come after the judged Heavenly Hosts, i.e., the beasts and the Judged Kings of the earth are released from the Bottomless pit at the end of the season period. Yes the Great Tribulation will occur, but not in the immediate future. What we are witnessing at the moment is the time of Jacob's Troubles after which there will be a time of peace upon the earth for Israel and all people groups.

Ezekiel 34:20-31: - 20 'Therefore thus says the Lord God to them: "Behold, I Myself will judge between the fat and the lean sheep. 21 Because you have pushed with side and shoulder, butted all the weak ones with your horns, and scattered them abroad, 22 therefore I will save My flock, and they shall no longer be a prey; and I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will establish one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them — My servant David. He shall feed them and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the Lord, will be their God, and My servant David a prince among them; I, the Lord, have spoken.

25 "I will make a covenant of peace with them and cause the evil beasts to cease from the earth; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places all around My hill a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing. 27 Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase. They shall be safe within my fertile field; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke and delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. 28 And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the earth devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid. 29 I will raise up for them a garden of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger on the earth, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. 30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people," says the Lord God.'"

31 "You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God," says the Lord God.

This passage debunks your guess.

Hi Jay, in Matthew 24:15-30 is about the great tribulation, and Jesus's return.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand : )

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Then we have Jesus's return in Matthew 24:30

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So the great tribulation and Jesus's return are both close. It all fits within Ezekiel 39.