It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[Taken]

Any Scripture to support this? It seems not. Your posts are totally bereft of the inspired text.

I use Christian Scripture.
If you want to familiarize yourself with the step by step protocols of historic Jewish agreements, betrothals, Price for the bride, from whom to whom, the sealing of the agreement, when the wedding takes place, who is Overseeing, Blessing the marriage, the feast for the guests / witnesses…
Then you go Find and Read the Jewish Holy Books.

Not my job to Read, Learn FOR you.

 

[CrowCross]

Where does the Bible teach a 7 year tribulation after the coming of Christ? And, yes, we are currently in the symbolic 1000 year reign of Christ.

Where is the verse as well as history that shows we are currently beyond Rev 19?

 

[Taken]

Where does the Bible teach a 7 year tribulation after the coming of Christ?

It doesn’t.

And, yes, we are currently in the symbolic 1000 year reign of Christ.

Made up nonsense.
The 1.000 year reign is neither symbolic or in process now.

 

[David in NJ]

At the end of the day, the pre-trib rapture doctrine in unique and stands on its own.

100% AGREE and 100% True

a. the pre-trib rapture doctrine is uniquely FALSE on it's own unique tenets

b.) the pre-trib rapture stands on it's own because it cannot be found coming from the Mouth of God / Scriptures

 

[Taken]

Ok. So, do you not believe in the catching away of the saints when Jesus comes?

Jesus’ coming is one thing.
Jesus’ ARRIVAL IS His Return TO EARTH.

I believe Jesus shall descend from High Heaven to the clouds and Summon up to Him His Bride…

Do you think coming to the Clouds IS His Return to Earth?

lol… The Clouds are Not Earth!

 

[CrowCross]

It doesn’t.

Daniel 9:20-27 speaks of the seven year tribulation.
Perhaps you tend to read it differently and do the math differently than most people.

Made up nonsense.
The 1.000 year reign is neither symbolic or in process now.

I agree. The literal 1,000 year reign is still future. We haven't stepped into Rev 6 yet...and they want to jump to the end of Revelation.

 

[WPM]

Where is the verse as well as history that shows we are currently beyond Rev 19?

Who said they believe that?

I take it by your avoidance that you have zero scripture for that claim?

 

[WPM]

It doesn’t.

LOL. So, you're trying to get me to prove something that is not in the Bible and is fictional?

Made up nonsense.
The 1.000 year reign is neither symbolic or in process now.

How long is the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is? i.e. is it sixty minutes?

 

[WPM]

Jesus’ coming is one thing.
Jesus’ ARRIVAL IS His Return TO EARTH.

I believe Jesus shall descend from High Heaven to the clouds and Summon up to Him His Bride…

Do you think coming to the Clouds IS His Return to Earth?

lol… The Clouds are Not Earth!

So you do believe in the catching away of the Saints? LOL. Why are you so sheepish about this? Are you ashamed of it?

Where is your Scripture to show a tribulation period following this anywhere in God's Book?

 

[CrowCross]

Who said they believe that?

I take it by your avoidance that you have zero scripture for that claim?

Because Rev 20 comes after Rev 19.

 

[WPM]

Because Rev 20 comes after Rev 19.

Revelation is definitely not a single unfolding sequence of historic events from start to finish. There are many parts of the book that do not run in a linear fashion. It is a series of recaps. It involves a number of repetitions describing the spiritual battle going on during the intra-Advent period from God’s perspective. It unveils a number of distinct visions relating to concurrent events given in a symbolic manner covering the same time period in between the First and Second Advents. This sequence of inspired figurative visions point to the spiritual reality of the victorious rule of Christ over intra-Advent events. Some of these events are looking back, some of these are looking forward. Some of these are currently ongoing.

Revelation lays out its own unique format, letting us know the beginning and ending of each recapitulation. It also shows us the parts that are parenthetical, and gives common and consistent points of reference between the various portions of the book.

It essentially presents different camera views of the same game (mainly, the period between Christ's First Advent and His Second Advent). The visions in the book of Revelation are distinct, recaps and concurrent. Sometimes they are looking back, sometimes they are looking forward. They describe the same time periods in different ways only zooming in on different entities or different events.

 

[WPM]

Because Rev 20 comes after Rev 19.

Revelation is full of recaps. Revelation 20 is the last of 7 recaps pertaining to the intra-Advent period. Revelation 19 is the second coming. It is also the end of the world. The fact is: there are no wicked left to rule over. All flesh is destroyed in Revelation 19 (as in every other Old Testament and New Testament second coming passage). Revelation 20 takes us back to Christ's victory over sin and death at the first resurrection and depicts the enlightenment of the Gentiles. It finishes with the general resurrection/judgment.

Revelation 19 is a picture of the glorious return of Christ. Jesus comes in majesty and power to execute judgment upon all. The all-consuming nature of the destruction and the all-inclusive degree of the judgment described in Revelation 19 fits with multiple Scripture that indicate that all the wicked will be destroyed at the appearing of Christ at the end. He destroys His enemies with the sword of His mouth – His very command. This is the power of His Word. His judgment cannot be thwarted or avoided.

Revelation 19 is the end of the world. All flesh is destroyed in that chapter. There is no one left to inhabit a future Premillennialist millennium. This is another text that forbids Premil.

 

[WPM]

Daniel 9:20-27 speaks of the seven year tribulation.
Perhaps you tend to read it differently and do the math differently than most people.

I agree. The literal 1,000 year reign is still future. We haven't stepped into Rev 6 yet...and they want to jump to the end of Revelation.

1. Where is the rapture of the Church mentioned in Daniel 9?
2. Where is a seven-year tribulation mentioned in Daniel 9?
3. Where is a third coming mentioned in Daniel 9?

 

[CrowCross]

1. Where is the rapture of the Church mentioned in Daniel 9?
2. Where is a seven-year tribulation mentioned in Daniel 9?
3. Where is a third coming mentioned in Daniel 9?

Where is Adams fall mentioned in Daniel 9?

 

[WPM]

Where is Adams fall mentioned in Daniel 9?

Nobody that I know claims that. It is Pre-trib that claims this passage is referring to the rapture followed by some seven year tribulation followed by some third coming. The reality is it's not there. The avoidance shows that. I'm just exposing what is not there.

 

[CrowCross]

Nobody that I know claims that. It is Pre-trib that claims this passage is referring to the rapture followed by some seven year tribulation followed by some third coming. The reality is it's not there. The avoidance shows that. I'm just exposing what is not there.

LOL...You missed the point....Just like Gen, Daniel 9 isn't about the rapture. LOL!!!

 

[Taken]

100% AGREE and 100% True

a. the pre-trib rapture doctrine is uniquely FALSE on it's own unique tenets

b.) the pre-trib rapture stands on it's own because it cannot be found coming from the Mouth of God / Scriptures

The Rapture is unique that it Only Applies to Those The Lord Jesus “has” Saved…

Salvation men receive during the Trib,. Is by, through, of God the Father.

The new better testament, Good News Gospel… was 2,000+ years ago… a new offering, a “Door opening”….for men to be Accounted dead (crucified with Jesus)…thus Able to Receive their Gift of Salvation “before mortal death”.

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of abetter testament.

Jesus’ Offering has been in effect via An OPEN DOOR for 2,000+ years…

Once Christ Jesus, calls, summons, retrieves, gathers, HIS Bride UNTO Him…and is Together meeting His Bride IN His Fathers House… The Groom and Bride are Wed in the Grooms Fathers presence and With His Blessing…

By Natural Reasoning, you should Know… more and more “Brides” do not Magically show up …
The Readied and Prepared and summoned Brides are the Ones Wedded to Their Groom…
And that is NOTICE… Those Not readied, prepared, Not Summoned…
Are “OUTSIDE” of a SHUT Door… with no Option to be included IN Christ Jesus’ Offer of Salvation.

Any and all men, NOT having TAKEN Jesus’ Offering of Salvation…
Are IN the Same circumstance, as Before Jesus Arrived on Earth…

Their Option for Salvation, IS by, through, of God… and Requires the Mans Heartful Belief….AND his mortal bodily Death, before he can Receive Gods Gift of Salvation.

The DOOR… open…reveals Entering in is possible.
The DOOR….shut….reveals Entering in is Not Possible.

It is parallel to… what already WAS and shall be Again..
Noah (and family)…
Gen 7:1 a prepared secure place
Gen 7:4 7 days secure, before destruction begins.
Gen 7:16 door shut, no more entering.
Gen 7:20 lifted up above the mountain tops, in the clouds.
Gen chapter 8: Noah, family, animals, return to Earth and Praise God.

The Bride / Church Christ Jesus shall return to Earth with Jesus…

Those Saved by God… from the Beginning, through the Trib… Bodily do Not Rise Up OFF the Earth.

God bless,
Taken

 

[JimKnox]

Pretrib can't stand without preconceived assumptions.
Posttrib can't stand without preconceived assumptions.

After receiving my Divinity degree from an IFB Bible College, I set about to strengthen my pretrib training and convictions.

I landed squarely on MIDTRIB PREMIL eschatology. It's the only thing that stands.

 

[WPM]

LOL...You missed the point....Just like Gen, Daniel 9 isn't about the rapture. LOL!!!

Neither is it the 7-year tribulation. Neither is it the third coming of jesus.

 

[WPM]

Pretrib can't stand without preconceived assumptions.
Posttrib can't stand without preconceived assumptions.

After receiving my Divinity degree from an IFB Bible College, I set about to strengthen my pretrib training and convictions.

I landed squarely on MIDTRIB PREMIL eschatology. It's the only thing that stands.

Where do you get your future comings of Jesus in the Bible then? Where are your proof-texts?