You avoid the sacred text like the plague! This sums up Pretrib. The Word forbids your error, and you know it. That is why you avoid it.
It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial
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Destruction of the wicked and unbelieving when he comes. But to those who look for Him, salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
It is appointed to all men to die once....after that, then the judgment.
In order for men to be judged, (as in that final judgment), they must first die.
All are raised up, believers have the resurrection of life, unbelievers the resurrection of damnation.
God made it simple to understand, but men corrupt what He said.
Hebrews 9
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
It is appointed to all men to die once....after that, then the judgment.
In order for men to be judged, (as in that final judgment), they must first die.
All are raised up, believers have the resurrection of life, unbelievers the resurrection of damnation.
God made it simple to understand, but men corrupt what He said.
Hebrews 9
Greatness of Christ’s Sacrifice
23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be [j]purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are [k]copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
The restrainer (the Holy Spirit) is NOT removed. That is what your teachers have wrongly taught you. Antichrist is revealed before the catching away. The catching away is the end.
The restrainer (the Holy Spirit) steps back. We are there now. The Lord is letting men be who they want to be, and go where they feel most comfortable. He is letting them be who they want to be. He is letting them do what they want to do. Of course, all within boundaries. But, the restraint is off.
2 Thessalonians 2:7-12: “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
2 Thessalonians 2:7 speaks of the emergence of the beast (called the mystery of iniquity) from his restraint before the end. This is indeed said to happen before “that day.” The beast here arises from his restrained prison to perpetrate his evil designs for a little season before the second coming. This is the devil’s last throw. The removal of the restraint upon the mystery of iniquity before Christ’s return, corresponds with the releasing of the beast from his prison and his ascension out of the abyss in Revelation.
This will initiate an unprecedented falling away of professing believers and uprising of the wicked near the end as the restraining power of the Holy Spirit upon man is lifted. I believe we are there. What is going to mark the last days? The movement of the mystery of lawlessness. This will be so close in that he will even sit in the temple of God (or amongst the people of God) as if he is God. Lawful authority is going to be challenged and removed and replaced with anarchy. You will see it move from the home, to the church and then to society. Authority, rules, and restraint will be gone.
I had used to believe God withdrew Himself from the world, and that caused the rapture, but then think clearly, as the saints are on the earth till the Last Day, as revelation clearly teaches, and God said He will never leave us or forsake us. The saint's on the last day are gathered to him and this HE SAYS
Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
So God's Spirit is still here on earth among His people always and for all time to come, and is not removed from the world..
Also it says
Jeremiah 23:24
Can anyone hide himself in secret places, So I shall not see him?” says the Lord; “Do I not fill heaven and earth?” says the Lord.
Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
So God's Spirit is still here on earth among His people always and for all time to come, and is not removed from the world..
Also it says
Jeremiah 23:24
Can anyone hide himself in secret places, So I shall not see him?” says the Lord; “Do I not fill heaven and earth?” says the Lord.
The catching away is likened unto the consummation of a marriage.
Revelation 19:7-10, which Pretribs attempt to attribute to a so-called third coming of Christ. A close look at this chapter will show it to relate to the one and only coming of Christ for His people. It tells us, “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come [Gr. erchomai], and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are ‘called’ [Gr. kaleō] unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.”
This word “called” as in “called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb” comes from the Greek word kaleō meaning to be invited or bidden. This refers to the catching away of the saints when those on earth are bidden to meet Christ in the air.
Clearly “the marriage of the Lamb” to “his wife” is referring to the final consummation of the relationship between Christ and His bride – the Church – at the second coming. This woman with her innate purity is such a contrast to the whore in the introductory verses that is judged. The two women couldn’t be more diverse. One is judged the other is blessed. The status of the Lamb’s wife is outlined in the passage and confirms her honoured status; “And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.” The wife is the body of believers down through the years, which have placed their trust and eternity on the blood of Christ, whether in the old or the new economy.
The marriage union is the glorification feat where we are eternally changed in order to enjoy God forever – this is the final act of redemption. This is the marriage of the Lamb. In short, a prepared bride is made ready to unite with a prepared bridegroom. For this climactic event she is arrayed in the righteousness of Christ. This is her worthiness for marriage.
You quoted Revelation 19 and then jumped elsewhere for your answer. That's because Revelation 19 teaches the opposite to what you are claiming.LOL. You quoted Revelation 19 and then jumped elsewhere for your answer. That's because Revelation 19 teaches the opposite to what you are claiming.
Revelation 19:11-21 outlines: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant [Gr. loipoy or remaining ones or those left behind] were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”
Please see that the wicked are destroyed by the sword of His voice. This is complete wholesale total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!
This passage powerfully and solemnly reveals the full extent of the devastation that is to be focused upon the wicked on the day of God’s wrath. In perfect keeping with the rest of Scripture, this narrative graphically shows us that the destruction that occurs will be immediate, absolute and total and that, at this stage – after “the marriage of the Lamb” (Rev 19:7) – everyone left behind will be completely consumed; the birds of heaven filling themselves with “the flesh of all men.” Significantly, the suffix “both free and bond, both small and great” is added in order to fully impress the enormity and all-inclusive nature of this feast.
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17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the [h]supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, [i]free and slave, both small and great.”
It is the Day of wrath of God.
None are excluded, they are all killed, which is appropriate, as they are all children of wrath following the prince of the power of the air, and seek to do his will. All who are not with Him are against Him, so they are all antichrists.
Ephesians 2
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
It is the Day of wrath of God.
None are excluded, they are all killed, which is appropriate, as they are all children of wrath following the prince of the power of the air, and seek to do his will. All who are not with Him are against Him, so they are all antichrists.
Ephesians 2
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Your negative accusations and judgements toward me (who DOES NOT AGREE with your Limited Understanding…)
Has Zero Affect on my Relationship with my Lord God…my having Received Salvation and my Deliverance from the wrath to come.
Sure the Lord Shall Divide / Separate, Those ON the Earth during Last Days Tribulations.
Sure God Shall Divide / Separate, Those ON the Earth during Last days Tribulations.
You simply LACK Understanding…
Those ALREADY Divid-ED / Separat-ED UNTO and WITH The Lord God…
are NOT “ON” the Earth during the Last days Tribulations.
Taken
Well-Known Member
How about embracing the Word, instead of fighting it? There is no rebuttal to the truth.
You cannot handle the truth. It is the truth that demolishes your theory.
That is lies. Pretribbers believe in two future comings (parousias) of Jesus Christ. They believe the first is to the sky and the second is to the earth.
Then how can they take the mark of the beast??? You say they're all dead. But then again I suppose it's all symbolic. Right????
Then Paul was a pre-tribber.....so was John.....and all the others. So were the early church fathers..then amillennialism of Origen and Augustine came along....and your felt board Sunday School teachers told you everything else was a lie and you'd burn in hell if you believed in a pre-tribulation rapture.
Not true. They all taught a climactic return of Christ. No Pretribber on this thread has been able to show one Scripture that teaches a rapture of the Church followed by a tribulation, followed by 3rd coming. In fact, none has showed a rapture followed by a tribulation period. It is false teaching. It is a Jesuit invention.
Where are your Scriptures? Nowhere!
Taken
Well-Known Member
Yes…all men MUST Die once.
Yes…Salvation Offered IS ONLY Given AFTER a bodily death.
What do you suppose, a man’s body “Crucified With Jesus’ body” IS / MEANS?
