It's coming....they have already indicted some on criminal charges regarding falsifying documents and lying to a Supreme Court.
It's time to impeach the impeachers
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Trump is actually gaining support....the latest polls shows Trump is ahead of all of the Democrat nominees...
USA Today:
WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump, the first modern president to face impeachment during his first term in the White House, now leads his top Democratic rivals in his bid for a second, a new USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll finds.
The national survey, taken as the House of Representatives planned an impeachment vote and the Senate a trial, showed Trump defeating former Vice President Joe Biden by 3 percentage points, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders by 5 points, and Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren by 8 points.
In hypothetical head-to-head contests, Trump also led South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg by 10 points and former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg by 9.
Polls taken nearly a year before an election are hardly a reliable indicator about what the eventual outcome will be, especially when the other nominee hasn't been chosen. But the findings do indicate that impeachment hearings detailing what critics see as Trump's violations of the Constitution and his oath of office haven't undermined his core political support.
Newsweek:
new 2020 poll shows President Donald Trump leading every top Democratic challenger in the key swing state of Iowa.
An Emerson poll released Wednesday had Trump besting four front-runners who are vying for the Democratic Party's nomination: Joe Biden, Pete Buttigieg, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
Newsweek: (publishing a different pollster...and I am trying to be fair in what I am showing here)
new poll shows President Donald Trump losing to every prospective Democratic nominee if the 2020 general election were held today.
A Quinnipiac University survey released Tuesday shows Trump trailing to six Democrats vying for the party's nomination -- Joe Biden, Michael Bloomberg, Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
Former Vice President Biden had the biggest lead on Trump compared to the other Democratic candidates. Fifty-one percent of registered voters polled said they would cast their ballot for Biden while 42 percent said they'd support Trump.
The race was tighter between the president and the other Democrats. Senator Sanders was shown beating Trump by 8 percentage points and Senator Warren was shown defeating him by 7 percentage points.
Not Democrat nominees but Left-Wing Clowns. To call a spade a spade.
I don't understand how these people can claim they represent the will of the people....which ones? Not me, that's for sure.
I don't have time to respond in full to everything you wrote. Perhaps later. I expect people to be better informed, to be blunt. Wikipedia is as dependable as the sources. While anyone can edit there, people generally don't last long and what they post also doesn't if it's too biased. Wikipedia cites their sources, something you I don't see you doing.
It would be a more pleasant conversation if you knew what you were talking about. Most of the Russians charged were in Russia. Do you really think Putin would extradite them? Try to be serious. Try to be more thoughtful. Stop thinking too that the Mueller investigation was all about Trump. I know many Democrats were hoping connections would be made to Trump personally; but Meuller's job was to research how Russia may have interfered with the election. I repeat it wasn't all about Trump although he seemed to take it all very personally, creating an impression he was hiding something.
February, 2018 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/13-russian-nationals-charged-by-mueller-1.4539118
Thirteen Russians and three Russian companies were charged Friday with an elaborate plot to interfere in the 2016 U.S. presidential election through social media propaganda aimed at helping Republican Donald Trump and harming the prospects of his Democratic opponent, Hillary Clinton, prosecutors announced Friday.
The indictment, brought by the office of special counsel Robert Mueller, represents the most direct allegation to date of illegal Russian meddling during the election.
The intent of the meddling, the indictment says, was to "sow discord in the U.S. political system, including the 2016 presidential election."
Maybe it worked at that since people are still at each other's throats over it. Back to the CBC article:
Rosenstein said no contact had been made with Russian authorities regarding the charges so far, but that U.S. officials intended to seek extradition of the defendants. The U.S. does not have an extradition treaty with Russia and the country has not historically responded to such requests.
The election-meddling organization, looking to conceal its Russian roots, purchased space on computer servers within the U.S., used email accounts from U.S. internet service providers and created and controlled social media pages with huge numbers of followers on divisive issues such as immigration, religion and the Black Lives Matter movement.
I did not research the matter enough to assert that all the indicted people had economic sanctions imposed on them. I'd assume the richer ones might have. There could also be international warrants out for them -- I don't know.
Do you think Putin would allow his chef to come the US to testify? Think again. There are sanctions on him, but I doubt US prosecutors will ever see him in an American court.
Story here: February, 2018 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/prigozhin-profile-mueller-probe-1.4540339
Sham impeachment? Why? Trump really is the President! No joke. He really is the President, and Congress really is impeaching him.
I hadn't heard that. I hope so. If they want to investigate someone, they really should not be lying to get warrants. I don't care what the politics parties are -- it's just wrong for people who work for the government to do that.
I get my numbers from Real Clear Politics. My impression is that the Democrats' debates isn't helping them much. I'm not sure if Trump is seen more favorably or if people are seeing the Democrat candidates more unfavorably.
shnarkle
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Take a look at the results of the Mule hair brained investigation, and you'll see that he made himself a laughingstock along with the entire Dumbocratic party.
Bingo!
You're seriously misinformed. The Russians RESPONDED to their indictments. It was widely reported, and it was immediately swept under the rug. Wiki is pure propaganda. They are notorious for fabricating nonsense, and refusing to correct falsehoods. Here's a great Ted talk on the subject:
Hilarious Clinton was clearly behind the Steel dossier. The FBI ignored over 15 blatant errors before they went ahead and started spying on Trump. They had nothing on him, and they still have nothing on him. They're wasting their time on this nonsense when they should be looking at all the idiotic things he is actually doing. This is nothing but political theater now. They won't deal with the real crimes he's engaging in because that would only place them in the spotlight as well. So they make up this nonsense. It's pathetic. Trump knows that if they decide to go after what he's really doing, they're all going down with him.
Insulting language is not a logical argument.
Did any of them come to the US to face the charges?
You keep introducing new things. You seem to be avoiding the real issues.
It got started when the Washington Free Beacon commissioned it. The Clinton campaign then got involved.
What I see is that some people connected with Trump got indicted and convicted.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I hope Pelosi refuses to deliver the articles of impeachment until Democrats win the Senate or the White House.
Taking a page from McConnell’s cut-throat book of morality during Obama’s last year of office - “Let voters decide”
About time Christianity Today spoke up about Trump’s immorality, btw
Trump Should Be Removed from Office
Taking a page from McConnell’s cut-throat book of morality during Obama’s last year of office - “Let voters decide”
About time Christianity Today spoke up about Trump’s immorality, btw
Trump Should Be Removed from Office
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Franklin Graham was not too happy with that OP from Christianity Today.
VictoryinJesus
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Aspen, I’m not good with politics and didn’t know about the impeachment until the day after. I did then watch what happened on YouTube. I tell you of my inexperience with it because maybe my input or opinion is out of not knowing all the facts. I’m shocked though that you feel this way and wish I could understand it. Oddly, when tuning in to see what went down and watching the replay of the impeachment, it all was eerily familiar. Been there and done that on a smaller scale and the law from that point on for other cases was also changed, and not for the better. I’m curious just how often this same thing is happening in our government and legal system. If we think it is only Trump, I’m afraid that is not true. The foundation of how we do and handle things is changing and not for the better.
Trump might be an ass. it may come out that he is completely guilty and America shocked that he did do this or that he is accused of doing. but can you explain to me why they couldn’t just follow “innocent until proven guilty.” Why do you not want this whatever turned over or give Trump an opportunity and also America to have it unfold fairly to get at the truth? There seems to be an whole urgency of fearing the truth might not get them what they want. Trump will move on after all this...but from now on in America something significant has changed in you are now guilty based solely off people with influence saying you are guilty. consider the adulterous woman with her accusers holding stones. Trump appears to be being stoned by those just as guilty as what they allege and we call it good? Again, don’t consider myself necessarily blinded by being in Trumps favor ...but dirty, cheating, lying, and manipulating and saying “screw the process that has always been followed” just became a fair means for accusing someone given no defense.
FAILURE TO DELIVER THE ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT TO THE SENATE MEANS THAT THERE WAS NO IMPEACHMENT.
Did you get that? It was a sham impeachment to begin with.
Actually Christianity Today abandoned the truth and was excoriated by both Franklin Graham and Donald Trump for becoming a Leftist Propaganda publication. Please see my thread on this in the Ethics and Morality Forum, where I have quoted an excellent article from American Thinker (the writer being a Christian).
My question is "Why are some Christians loving the Leftist Liars while treating Trump as guilty before any evidence of guilt has been presented? You are all becoming partakers of their evil deeds.
shnarkle
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The government hasn't pursued the matter. It's all falling apart around them. The charges were blatantly trumped up. Everyone knew it. What these bozo's didn't count on was the Russians responding to the charges, and letting them know that they were perfectly willing to appear and face the music. Trump is doing the same thing now which is why they're going to just continue to shuffle it all under the rug.
They're called "facts"
You're confusing me with the mainstream news media.
You're seeing things. Everything so far has been a enormous exercise in futility. Look at what anyone is getting convicted of so far, and what you see is that it's a whole lot of nothing. Remember when Obama forgot that his mic was still on while he pointed out that he would be able to work with the Ruskies after the next election??? No one batted an eye when he said that, and this doesn't come anywhere near that level of collusion. Trump isn't colluding at all. This is all nonsense. There's no reason why Trump shouldn't be restoring relations with Russia so we can all get back to fixing the economy. Instead the mainstream news outlets are all spouting this nonsense that we can't trust the Russians. Why? Because they abandoned socialism? Yep. Because we need some sort of enemy to warrant having the biggest military budget in the world? Yep. Because Trump is an outsider? Yep. Because reestablishing relations with the Russians would take a big chunk of money away from the money changers in the Fed? Yep. It's going to happen anyways, and will probably signal the end of the Fed's money printing scam.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
If this is a sham impeachment, we need to get rid of impeachment completely. Face it, Trump pushed this impeachment as much as possible in hopes that it would rally suckers like yourself to vote for him again in spite of his failed policies. Like all failures, he looks for a reason to demonize and liberals who were forced into impeachment fit the bill nicely. If the house didn’t impeach when it did, Trump would have continued to up the anti until his committed treason to force their hand. Consider this impeachment a mercy.
also, if Trump doesn’t get re-elected, there will be no need to impeach him, now will there? If he does get re-elected and the Senate goes to the dems like the house did in the last humiliating election, it will be time for Pelosi to deliver those articles
How could the American Justice Department pursue the matter when the Russians are in Russia and apt to remain there? So what if the Russians say they're innocent? What would you expect them to say? You seem about as gullible as Trump when it comes to the Russians. Trump said he'd asked Putin about it and Putin said he was innocent. Trump said he believed Putin.
I was talking about past events first of all and that TED talk secondly. You seem to want to talk about Hillary and Bill or the Mueller investigation instead of the two articles of impeachment. That looks like an attempt to dodge.
Hardly. The media seems to be discussing current events. You appear to want to discuss events that are not relevant to this case, some of which are decades old.
You sound as if you might be on the Russian payroll. The Russians have been outsmarting this administration for some time. It's either that or Trump is a Russian agent. I prefer to think he's naive politically and being outsmarted. His distrust of multilateral agreements is one of his biggest weaknesses. The Russians are masters of complex politics. Putin is very clever.
NATO is in peril with Turkey appearing to be willing to buy military equipment from Russia instead of the US. Trump threatens sanctions, Turkey laughs. I wonder how far Trump would go anyway when he has financial interests in Turkey that could be confiscated? Turkey is even threatening to close down an American military base.
Macron seeing how Trump has undermined NATO spotted his own opportunity to grab some power, saying NATO was brain dead or something like that. Macron wants a new security arrangement for Europe -- naturally with France in the forefront. The UK is leaving the EU; Germany while economically powerful lacks a strong military and nuclear weapons.
Ukraine just signed an agreement with Russia about natural gas supplies. Why not? It looks as if maybe the US isn't a strong ally and can't be depended on. While I think that agreement was needed, it's tragic to me that the US didn't seem involved.
Germany likewise is tilting more and more towards Russia and away from the US. That too is over natural gas. They need energy and Russia can supply it. Merkel expressed her displeasure with the American sanctions. Construction has stopped, at least temporarily, because the company working on it didn't want to run afoul of the US sanctions; but that works only so long. It opens the door for other companies from other countries to do the work. Trump overdoes the sanctions. If I was a foreign corporation, I'd think twice about whether I wanted anything to do with the US in the future. It might be easier to do business with other people.
Was the US at the table for the peace talks about Syria? So far as I know, they were not. That was mostly Turkey and Russia hashing out what they thought should happen in Syria.
Some months ago, Russia and China announced their first joint military exercises. The news this December is that Iran will be joining them for joint military exercises. I think Russia denied it was the start of a new military alliance. How could that be? The three big winners globally during the first three years of the Trump administration has been those three countries. Iran remains the most vulnerable, of course; but it looks as if Russia and China don't mind annoying the US if that means they can cozy up to Iran.
Afghanistan has been another wreck for this administration as it has been for quite a long time. Russia has to be enjoying seeing the US mired down -- the way they had been when the Soviets were there.
North Korea is another example of a missed opportunity. Trump started off well, I thought; but he really doesn't know that diplomacy depends on both sticks and carrots. He depends too much on sticks. Kim isn't impressed and won't be pressured. Iran also isn't impressed. I also agreed for the most part with Trump that the agreement Obama had reached with Iran was highly problematical. What Trump didn't seem to grasp was that he might have won more concessions from Iran by offering them more goodies. The same is true about North Korea. Both have tremendous problems that the US could help fix if both sides were willing to ratchet down the negativity.
If we want to talk about foreign influence on elections, I'd suggest focusing on North Korea and Iran for potential problems. Kim is threatening a Christmas surprise. My guess is both countries could be considering an October surprise for 2020. China and Russia might not have to do much themselves if they can get their surrogates to do it for them; but perhaps the Chinese might have a few tricks up their sleeve for October 2020. Have you noticed how the US stock market vacillates with every little bit of news about the trade negotiations with China? That shows a vulnerability on the part of the US. China think twice about trying to make the American stock market collapse since so many Chinese own stocks in it, at least for now; but as I see it, China now has the cards to collapse the American stock market and possibly the economy -- thus almost guaranteeing Trump's defeat in 2020 if they are pushed too hard. The damage to China could be considerable; but they have great control over the news, and any misery caused in China could be blamed on the US and the Chinese would accept it at true -- or be afraid to dissent if they didn't believe it.
What I don't see is that China will ever want to depend again on American farmers that much. They can buy soybeans and other things from other countries. China will also be doing its best to become less dependent on Americans for manufactured goods. Trump has made things too complicated and unpredictable.
I don't see "increased trade" with either Russia or China as a good thing. We did that already with China. They made a lot of money from it; and now they're using that money to build up their military. Russia took the money they got from selling oil and gas to build up their military too.
We appear to be in situation similar to the one prior to World War I when European countries owned almost everything globally and then began quarreling among themselves over who would be dominant. We are seeing the rise of Russia and China on the global stage. It's about money and dominance; and it's naive to think Russia is on friendly terms with us. Decades ago, good relations with Russia were possible. The Russians wanted to be friendly. They got treated with contempt by the EU, they got threatened by NATO peeling off countries which had traditionally been allied with Russia. I'd say Russia was abused, even betrayed, by the West. Putin is now suspicious of Western politicians who smile at him while plotting against him. They lied to Russia, and Putin figures he needs to lie to them now. Trump did not create the problems; but it seems he does not know how to solve the problem either. He is not a master of negotiations. He understands only bilateral agreements. The world order appears to be crumbling to me. If Trump is re-elected, a "new world order" is almost certain to emerge; and it won't be to America's good. Trump can be right about something but then plot a course for disaster by being too negative in public. He was completely right about NATO members not keeping their commitments; but he sought to embarrass them in public and made negative comments.
Now it looks as if Trump wants to make the WTO irrelevant, just as he has the FEC more or less. He doesn't appoint people. Positions are vacant. Is that the way to reform government, or is it the way to undermine order and create chaos?[/QUOTE]
shnarkle
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The whole government is a sham. They're completely inept.
His failed policies are no different than the failed policies of each and every President before him. The new boss is the same as the old boss. He hasn't done a single thing to fixe the economy. He's simply rubber stamped the same monetary policies that have been shifting wealth from the working class to the elite money changers.
He's the personification of most politicians of the last thirty years. They're all a bunch of psychopathic morons.
He's done plenty of things that were far worse than what they finally settled on. They won't go after him for his real treasonous exploits because they're backing him when it comes to real treason.
They're impeaching him because their constituents are demanding it.
She's only holding because she's not so sure she may have been double crossed. She only went for it after Mitch MaCrackpot said he wasn't going to call any witnesses. That was a clear signal that it would be safe to proceed knowing that no one would be exposing anything they didn't want exposed. Fast forward to their call to impeach, and suddenly the story has changed. Oops.
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