Agreed.
The term "sleep" is foundational to the belief that when people die, they are no longer conscious.
Those who disagree with this position believe that the term is euphemistic for death of the physical body, which resembles sleep.
Jesus makes it clear when He uses this term:
John 11:1-14
Note especially:
John 11
[sup]11[/sup]These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
[sup]12[/sup]Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
[sup]13[/sup]Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. [sup]14[/sup]Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Jesus uses the familiar term for death yet the disciples mistake this for the taking of rest...
It is a term like we would use today, such as, "passing away." That is how many view this term.
I agree.
Is it not a place of torment? To be separated from your loved ones, and worse...to know you are separated from God, and have come to understand that the God they did not believe in or rejected is real?
It is the grave....
Both death and hell represent the grave? Many faithful servants of God have gone into the grave, but not one of them have gone into hell. This speaks of the resurrection of the dead, in which they will be reunited with their physical bodies which will be suited for eternal damnation in the lake of fire.
I don't agree with this statement. Again hell represents the grave..
Now, the only spirit that returns to God is the (breath of life) given to a man so he can live.
Agreed. So it amazes me that the New Testament revelation concerning resurrection and the disposition of the dead is ignored.
There is no new revelation concerning resurrection or disposition of the dead. What was taught in the old is was also taught in the new. Job knew about the same teaching Paul taught.
Job :14:[sup]10[/sup]But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? [sup]11[/sup]As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
[sup]12[/sup]So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Job knew about going to the grave, and not rising til the heaven be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
[sup]13[/sup]O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
Listen to what he said, hide me in the grave, until the appointed time.
Job14:[sup]14[/sup]If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait,
till my change come.
[sup]15[/sup]Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
He said "days of my appointed time, till his change comes". vs 15 "thou shall call,and I will answer thee"
1 Thess. 4:[sup]13[/sup]But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. [sup]14[/sup]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[sup]15[/sup]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[sup]16[/sup]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[sup]17[/sup]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
read what Job said, and compare it to what Paul said. Same doctrine, same spirit, different time. God true doctrine doesn't change.
I see a confusion of firstborn and firstfruit, for one.
The OP states that no-one goes to heaven or hell, which contradicts many scriptures.
You have yet to prove any is in heaven or hell. I have shown from both new and old testaments to prove men go to the grave until they are call from the grave by the Lord at the resurrection.
Just so you know, my intention is to discuss this, rather than argue. I understand the position you have taken, and hey, that is your belief. I do not think it something that necessarily means one is heretical, or that it might change whether one is in Christ or not, it is one of those things that we all must come to a conclusion to on our own.
Hope we can debate doctrine in a brotherly fashion.
GTY
I don't mind debating in brotherly fashion. I hope you and Anastasia consider the scriptures I have provided. People need to know the truth, not fables about people being judge as soon as they die. If the righteous spirit goes to heaven, and the unrighteous go to hell, then that means they are judged already. That is not scriptural, and spirit of error. Considered false doctrine.