Jesus Commands Trust and Love, not the Mosaic Law

[Bob Estey]

Actually, while Jesus did tell people to "sin no more", in this verse, He's actually saying something a little different, to repent, which is to have a new mind.

While I don't discount "avoiding trouble" as a reason to not sin, I don't think it's the best reason. I think the very best reason to not sin is because you are too busying caring for others to commit sins. And when faced with circumstances which may test us, test our faith in Jesus' ability to deliver us, we just continue to trust Jesus, and His care for us.

We care for others, we allow Jesus to care for us, and as we do these things, our lives are as Jesus makes them. Which will not include sin.

Much love!

If you've repented of your sin, then you know the transformation that takes place when you do.

 

[marks]

Don't forget the first and great commandment - to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul (Matthew 22:34-40).

I'm curious . . . are you able to fairly and accurately restate my view that I'm expressing? Whether you agree or not, can you show me that you actually understand what I'm saying by saying it back to me in your own words?

I believe that you are saying our obedience to God is informed by the commandments throughout the Bible, specifically certain ones of them, that have universal application, showing God's values and nature. God doesn't change, so what He says is wrong in one time is wrong in all times, including our times. Knowing His commandments in all times gives us a foundation to base our obedience on, and our obedience is to conform to His commandments, not concerning ourselves with when they were given, or to whom. If we fail to maintain this standard, we can expect to have trouble in our lives because of that.

Is that correct?

Much love!

 

[marks]

If you've repented of your sin, then you know the transformation that takes place when you do.

OK.

 

[Iconoclast]

Having them in us is not meaningful if we do not also obey them. How does a person do that?

As we yield ourselves to the Holy Spirit within us, the Holy Spirit will guide and strengthen the new man of us to kill the old man of us. This is why Apostle Paul admonishes us:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?" James 4:1

The battles rage within each of us to sin or not to sin. The power of God never loses, but we have authority over God within us. That is what men call "free will".

We can keep hold of our reins [effectively giving in to the old man] or we can surrender to God [giving the reins to the Holy Spirit within us]. Leading ourselves, we will lose. The Holy Spirit leading us, we will win. How many battles must we fight? Until all of those things which would lead us to sin have been finally overcome. When that is done, then the old man is dead and we with Jesus may say:

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father..." John 17:11

When Jesus prayed that prayer he had not yet gone to the cross but he had overcome the last temptation of his own old man [man of fleshly desires as per those listed in I John 2:16].

We [each one of us] are still in our own little world of temptation. When and if we have overcome the last obstacle fighting against the new man, we will be where Jesus was when he spoke of having overcome the world [John 16:33] even if we are still on planet Earth. Jesus was certainly still on planet Earth when he prayed that prayer [John 17].

No.
The old man has been crucified.
You do NOT have authority over God anywhere.

 

[amadeus]

No.
The old man has been crucified.
You do NOT have authority over God anywhere.

So then God is now a respecter of persons?
So now all believers have already overcome all of their temptations and no longer sin?
So then no man is able to quench the Spirit of God within himself and sin?

I do disagree with you, but only God gives any increase that ultimately really matter:

"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:6-7

 

[Bob Estey]

I'm curious . . . are you able to fairly and accurately restate my view that I'm expressing? Whether you agree or not, can you show me that you actually understand what I'm saying by saying it back to me in your own words?

I believe that you are saying our obedience to God is informed by the commandments throughout the Bible, specifically certain ones of them, that have universal application, showing God's values and nature. God doesn't change, so what He says is wrong in one time is wrong in all times, including our times. Knowing His commandments in all times gives us a foundation to base our obedience on, and our obedience is to conform to His commandments, not concerning ourselves with when they were given, or to whom. If we fail to maintain this standard, we can expect to have trouble in our lives because of that.

Is that correct?

Much love!

No, I can't.

 

[Bob Estey]

OK.

For instance, how can you understand this verse without first repenting of your sin?:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17 RSV

 

[marks]

No, I can't.

Do you want to understand better what I'm saying? Have you ever practiced "Active Listening" or "Reflective Listening"?

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, I can't.

Was I correct in my restatement of your view?

Much love!

 

[marks]

For instance, how can you understand this verse without first repenting of your sin?:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17 RSV

What does "repent" mean to you?

My understanding is from original work "metanoia", which is the "after mind", that is, the mind you now have, having exchanged your mind. I understand our repentance to be when we realize Jesus is in fact our necessary Savior, and we choose to trust in Him.

We've repudiated our flesh, who we were before knowing Jesus, though we may not have all the theology on that. We've repudiated our sinfulness, and chosen new life in Christ. This is when God regenerates us, making us new, and we truly have the "after mind", the new mind of Christ.

When I think about common ideas of repenting, there is to stop a sin, repudiate ongoing sin, repudiate inner sinfulness, repudiate myself the sinner. The latter two have more to do with my idea of metanoia. The first two I think reflect the meaning of the corresponding Hebrew word.

Much love!

 

[Bob Estey]

Do you want to understand better what I'm saying? Have you ever practiced "Active Listening" or "Reflective Listening"?

Much love!

I'm too old to read long posts in their entirety.

 

[Bob Estey]

Was I correct in my restatement of your view?

Much love!

No - my posts are concise.

 

[Bob Estey]

What does "repent" mean to you?

My understanding is from original work "metanoia", which is the "after mind", that is, the mind you now have, having exchanged your mind. I understand our repentance to be when we realize Jesus is in fact our necessary Savior, and we choose to trust in Him.

We've repudiated our flesh, who we were before knowing Jesus, though we may not have all the theology on that. We've repudiated our sinfulness, and chosen new life in Christ. This is when God regenerates us, making us new, and we truly have the "after mind", the new mind of Christ.

When I think about common ideas of repenting, there is to stop a sin, repudiate ongoing sin, repudiate inner sinfulness, repudiate myself the sinner. The latter two have more to do with my idea of metanoia. The first two I think reflect the meaning of the corresponding Hebrew word.

Much love!

Some might argue "repent" meants to change. Is Jesus, then, commanding us to change? No. He is commanding us to change for the better - stop sinning.

 

[marks]

Some might argue "repent" meants to change. Is Jesus, then, commanding us to change? No. He is commanding us to change for the better - stop sinning.

I'm more talking about the meaning of the word that's used.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No - my posts are concise.

In what part was I mistaken? The reason I ask is so I can correctly understand your point of view. It sounds like I don't.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I'm too old to read long posts in their entirety.

OK, me too. But is that a "not interested" on the reflective listening thing?

Much love!

 

[Bob Estey]

I'm more talking about the meaning of the word that's used.

Much love!

Simple: Stop sinning. A lot of people prefer, "Regret your sin, but not so much as to stop doing it."

 

[Bob Estey]

In what part was I mistaken? The reason I ask is so I can correctly understand your point of view. It sounds like I don't.

Much love!

Your were mistaken in that you used too many words.

 

[Bob Estey]

OK, me too. But is that a "not interested" on the reflective listening thing?

Much love!

Reflective listening thing? Can you be more concise?

 

[marks]

Your were mistaken in that you used too many words.

You seem adverse to a clear answer.

Much love!