Jesus is Jehovah the YHWH of the Old Testament

[Hobie]

Do I need to be a scholar to know that when Jesus mentioned his Father and his God he is talking about Jehovah?

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom you handed over and disowned before Pilate, even though he had decided to release him.

What kind of darkness clouds the minds of so many people so that they do not have even the minimum level of reading comprehension when they read the Scriptures?

2 Cor. 4:3 If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

We have to read all that is in Gods Word, line by line, precept upon precept...

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[ElieG12]

What part of this is not clear enough to you?

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom you handed over and disowned before Pilate, even though he had decided to release him.

 

[Hobie]

What part of this is not clear enough to you?

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom you handed over and disowned before Pilate, even though he had decided to release him.

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

If Christ made all things, He existed before all things. Christ was Jehovah in all its fulness and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity.

Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Colossians 2:9-10
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

 

[ElieG12]

Again: What part of this is not clear enough to you?

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom you handed over and disowned before Pilate, even though he had decided to release him.

... 5:30 The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake. 31 God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler.”

... 13:32 “So we are declaring to you the good news about the promise made to the forefathers. 33 God has completely fulfilled it to us, their children, by resurrecting Jesus; just as it is written in the second psalm: ‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’ 34 And the fact that He resurrected him from the dead never again to return to corruption, He has stated in this way: ‘I will give you the expressions of loyal love promised to David, which are faithful.’

 

[Hobie]

Again: What part of this is not clear enough to you?

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom you handed over and disowned before Pilate, even though he had decided to release him.

You need to read the Bible with eyes that see...
John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

 

[ElieG12]

You need some reading comprehension:

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom you handed over and disowned before Pilate, even though he had decided to release him.

... 5:30 The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake. 31 God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler.”

... 13:32 “So we are declaring to you the good news about the promise made to the forefathers. 33 God has completely fulfilled it to us, their children, by resurrecting Jesus; just as it is written in the second psalm: ‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’ 34 And the fact that He resurrected him from the dead never again to return to corruption, He has stated in this way: ‘I will give you the expressions of loyal love promised to David, which are faithful.’

 

[ElieG12]

It seems evident that you have never studied the relationship between Jehovah and Jesus.

1) Jesus was anointed by Jehovah (Psal. 2:1,2; Acts 4:26,27)

2) Jesus was the prophet "Moses-like" that Jehovah had promised (Dt. 18:15-18; Acts 3:18-22)

3) Jehovah sat Jesus Christ at His right hand when He raised him (Psal. 110:1; Eph. 1:17-23)

4) Jehovah chose Jesus as High Priest in the manner of Melchizedek (Psal. 110:4; Hb. 5:1-6)

5) Jesus is Jehovah's heir (Psal. 2:7,8; Hb. 1:2,3)

6) Jehovah declared Jesus Christ as His Son (Psal. 2:7; Hb. 5:5-7)

 

[The Learner]

Yes

 

[Hobie]

This is a core Christian principle if you truly believe... What did Jesus mean when He said, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30)? | GotQuestions.org

 

[ElieG12]

Jesus prayed to the Father:

John 17:1 Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, 2 just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him. 3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was...."

... praised the Father:

Luke 10:21 In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved.

... asked the Father for help

Matt. 26:39 And going a little way forward, he fell facedown, praying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.”

...obeyed the Father...

Heb. 5:7 During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. 9 And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him

He taught that the Father is his God and the God of his brothers.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

... and he told his brothers that if they resisted to the end, he would take them to serve with him in the temple of his own God:

Rev. 3:12 The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.

To invent a Jesus different from the one Christians learn about in the Bible, is to become an enemy of Jesus Christ.

 

[Hobie]

No, but you should be able to read English. The JW bible says Jesus is God and Hell fire is "forever and ever"!

Why then when you talk with them they say the opposite..

 

[Jack]

Why then when you talk with them they say the opposite..

Talking to a JW is like talking to a brick wall.

 

[The Learner]

Why then when you talk with them they say the opposite..

They have been mistaught by false teachers. Also, the Watchtower has set many dates that did not come to pass.

• 1897 “Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874,” (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
• 1899 ” . . . the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced,” (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
• 1916 “The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ’s Reign, began in 1873,” (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
• 1918 “Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection,” (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
• 1922 “The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914,” (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
• 1923 “Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge,” (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
• 1925 “The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time, God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year,” (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
• 1925 “It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work,” (Watchtower, Sept. 1925, p. 262).
• 1926 “Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything,” (Watchtower, p. 232).
• 1931 “There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah’s faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1914, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time. . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates for the future….” (Vindication, pp. 338, 339).
• 1941 “Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord’s provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon,” (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
• 1968 “True, there have been those in times past who predicted an ‘end to the world’, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The ‘end’ did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? . . . Missing from such people were God’s truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them,” (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).
• 1968 “Why are you looking forward to 1975?” (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494).

 

[Hobie]

It seems evident that you have never studied the relationship between Jehovah and Jesus.

1) Jesus was anointed by Jehovah (Psal. 2:1,2; Acts 4:26,27)

2) Jesus was the prophet "Moses-like" that Jehovah had promised (Dt. 18:15-18; Acts 3:18-22)

3) Jehovah sat Jesus Christ at His right hand when He raised him (Psal. 110:1; Eph. 1:17-23)

4) Jehovah chose Jesus as High Priest in the manner of Melchizedek (Psal. 110:4; Hb. 5:1-6)

5) Jesus is Jehovah's heir (Psal. 2:7,8; Hb. 1:2,3)

6) Jehovah declared Jesus Christ as His Son (Psal. 2:7; Hb. 5:5-7)

The mystery of the Godhead is hard to grasp, but Christ was the one who is our Creator, the one who wrote the Law with His Own finger, who talked with Abraham before Sodom met its end, who told Noah to build the Ark, and led the Children of Israel to the promise land... the great I Am, Jehovah..

 

[APAK]

Jehovah is the Hebrew name for God in the Old Testament. He is given as the Creator of the universe and everything in it. The name Yahweh comes from the Hebrew word for "I am," which was translated as 'Jehovah.' Whenever the name 'LORD' is printed in small caps in the Bible, it means 'YAHWEH'. For ancient Jews, the name 'YAHWEH' was so sacred that they would not speak it nor would they write it in full, but gave it as 'YHWH'.

Now the scriptures is very clear that Jesus Christ is not just our Savior, but is also the Creator of the universe, Jehovah 'YAHWEH' of the Old Testament. Notice carefully:

All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that has been made. John 1:3

He [Jesus] was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not. John 1:10

God, who created all things by Jesus Christ. Ephesians 3:9

For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16

Thus Jesus Christ is our Creator. The One who created, rested. Thus the Sabbath commandment, when correctly understood in the light of both the Old and New Testaments, points to Jesus Christ

Now some may say but God the great Jehovah created the earth in the beginning, but here is were the mystery of the GodHead has to be understood in order to understand who Jesus was.

Jesus is the Jehovah of ALL the Bible. He is the LORD Jehovah that walked in the cool of the day in Eden. Jesus was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jesus was Jehovah God who gave the Ten Commandments. Jesus was Jehovah God who was in the pillar of fire by night and cloud by day. Jesus was Jehovah God who appeared to Moses in the fiery bush and declared I am that I am.

What Jesus claims about Himself - John 8:48-59
48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

With solemn dignity Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Silence fell upon the vast assembly. The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as His own by Jesus.

Lets look at this story of Moses and the burning bush in Exodus...
Exodus 3:14-15..
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Now scripture shows us even more clearly who Christ is, if we just let the Holy Spirit guide us into truth.

THE FIRST AND THE LAST
Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Isaiah 41:4
Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12
Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Now lets look at who is the Savior:

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD ; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Hosea 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

1Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

2Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Philippians 3:20
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Jesus is truly the Creator, Jehovah 'YAHWEH', the First and the Last, our Savior and Lord of the Sabbath. It is His day of worship from Creation, the day of rest, made for man not man for the Sabbath..

Genesis 2:1-2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

The Sabbath was for all mankind which the Creator gave us. Our Lord and Saviour shows us.

You preach and promote a false Jesus, and thus a false Christ and savior. One day the Spirit of God via his son's spirit may open your eyes to the truth.

And why is it that nearly every time there is opposition to say your take on Jesus and his Father and your religious interpretation of scripture, they label them all as JW? Ignorance abounds indeed. A cycle of ignorance that keeps folks from the truth of their creator and savior.

 

[Hobie]

You preach and promote a false Jesus, and thus a false Christ and savior. One day the Spirit of God via his son's spirit may open your eyes to the truth.

And why is it that nearly every time there is opposition to say your take on Jesus and his Father and your religious interpretation of scripture, they label them all as JW? Ignorance abounds indeed. A cycle of ignorance that keeps folks from the truth of their creator and savior.

Please read your Bible and see what it says rather than talk about what you heard from someone, you will see it is scriptural..

 

[APAK]

Please read your Bible and see what it says rather than talk about what is false, you will see it is scriptural..

As I suspected, you have nothing to say in the matters of the spirit.

 

[Wrangler]

The name Yahweh comes from the Hebrew word for "I am,"

No. From Tetragrammaton - Wikipedia: "to be", "to exist", "to cause to become", or "to come to pass"

The VOICE translation uses the word eternal to more closely cover the meaning, which is much more than merely "I am." Aristotle referred to it as the First Mover or Cause.

 

[Wrangler]

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

I never caught that before - his word. I wonder how those who hold Jesus is the word reconciles Jesus observing someone else's word?

 

[Wrangler]

Again: What part of this is not clear enough to you?

I find the intellectual dishonesty stunning! Just sweep away verses they don't like and only allow verses they prefer to discuss. Just stunning.