Jesus is Michael

[ReChoired]

... This is what Bible debates are about, presenting your arguments and allowing the readers here to make up their own minds. ...

Second Offer:

I am officially inviting you for a one to one discussion (or debate if you prefer) in these public forums in the 'debate' section, moderated, with rules agreed upon.

I would like to suggest we do 3 topics of discussion. You choose the first topic and present on it (we can decide how many posts or word limits, etc as needed), and then I present on that subject (no need for debate counterpoints, unless you would like that). Then I choose a subject and present on it (after the same manner as before) and then you present on it. Then we open a public poll for the forum to chose out 3rd topic for us, with majority vote wins, and you may present first on that topic if you like, or if you prefer I go ahead with yourself following is fine. We can include a brief bio or background history of ourselves before the three subjects if you would like.

We can make everything official and in writing before beginning, with both of us and moderation agreeing to terms.

What say you?

I am ready and willing to put my Faith's position in the public arena and publically scrutinized.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Thank you for your time and effort A-Jane. Still disagree with your conclusion.

That is what we all have to do isn't it? Search the word of God and ask for his guidance and direction to understand it. Can we do this without the "faithful and discreet slave" whom Jesus appointed to "feed" his fellow slaves their "food at the proper time"? (Matthew 24:45) This slave was appointed at the time of the end because it is included with all the other "signs" of the end of the age that Jesus gave to indicate that he had returned and was ruling as King.

If God was guiding us, then we would all reach the same conclusions because God does not speak with a forked tongue.....his adversary does however....so "wheat and weeds" are in the world.....we know that for certain. But God's spirit will not speak one thing to one group, and something else to another.

The "wheat" will all agree with one another BECAUSE God is directing them. The "weeds" however will be a confused rabble because everyone thinks that they are right and everyone else is wrong, yet they still claim to be one body of Christians who will all go to heaven, despite the fact that they have no idea why......can you see the bigger picture here?

If Jesus said that "few" are on the road to life, then the "many" are traveling the wrong road....unaware that it's a dead end. (Matthew 7:13-14)
This is why Matthew 7:21-23 will take them by surprise.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Second Offer:

I am officially inviting you for a one to one discussion (or debate if you prefer) in these public forums in the 'debate' section, moderated, with rules agreed upon.

I would like to suggest we do 3 topics of discussion. You choose the first topic and present on it (we can decide how many posts or word limits, etc as needed), and then I present on that subject (no need for debate counterpoints, unless you would like that). Then I choose a subject and present on it (after the same manner as before) and then you present on it. Then we open a public poll for the forum to chose out 3rd topic for us, with majority vote wins, and you may present first on that topic if you like, or if you prefer I go ahead with yourself following is fine. We can include a brief bio or background history of ourselves before the three subjects if you would like.

We can make everything official and in writing before beginning, with both of us and moderation agreeing to terms.

What say you?

I am ready and willing to put my Faith's position in the public arena and publically scrutinized.

Anyone else I might have taken them up on the offer but you...seriously mate, you are so full of your own importance I really can't be bothered being that pedantically "right" and the head space it would use up trying to combat copy and pasted novels would do my head in......apparently you need that. I don't know what that says about you.....but it says don't go there for me.
Majority vote wins???? Are you for real? This is what Christianity is to you?

winning arguments???

Try that on someone else. OK? I'm happy just to post and allow others to make up their own minds. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else, but apparently you do.....maybe you should ask yourself why...?

 

[post]

Mistranslation by Catholicism to fit false council teachings, same in the last line at John 1:1--same in the OT- there is no i am that i am in Hebrew. I will be what i will be is the way it translates to english.

πρὸς δὲ τὸν Υἱόν Ὁ θρόνος σου ὁ Θεὸς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος​

 

[ReChoired]

Anyone else I might have taken them up on the offer but you...seriously mate, you are so full of your own importance I really can't be bothered being that pedantically "right" and the head space it would use up trying to combat copy and pasted novels would do my head in......apparently you need that. I don't know what that says about you.....but it says don't go there for me.
Majority vote wins???? Are you for real? This is what Christianity is to you?

winning arguments???

Try that on someone else. OK? I'm happy just to post and allow others to make up their own minds. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else, but apparently you do.....maybe you should ask yourself why...?

I was simply going off of your idea about a 'debate' forum.

I do desire you to actually read what I offered a little more carefully, as I never said anything about a "majority vote" wins the conversation. If you will please more carefully read, the statement about "majority vote" was in regards to the forum person deciding by majority vote what the third topic would be for our presentation.

So on the first round, you decide the topic, and you post, then I post (no debate or cross reply unless you wanted that).

So on second round, I decide the topic, and I post, then you post (no debate or cross reply unless you wanted that).

The third topic was to be picked by the other forum persons and the majority vote decides on the third topic you and I are to discuss. You could post on that topic, or I, as you decided (no debate or cross replying unless you want that).

That would end our tete a tete.

Third and final Offer:

I am officially inviting you for a one to one discussion (or debate if you prefer) in these public forums in the 'debate' section, moderated, with rules agreed upon.

I would like to suggest we do 3 topics of discussion. You choose the first topic and present on it (we can decide how many posts or word limits, etc as needed), and then I present on that subject (no need for debate counterpoints, unless you would like that). Then I choose a subject and present on it (after the same manner as before) and then you present on it. Then we open a public poll for the forum to chose out 3rd topic for us, with majority vote wins, and you may present first on that topic if you like, or if you prefer I go ahead with yourself following is fine. We can include a brief bio or background history of ourselves before the three subjects if you would like.

We can make everything official and in writing before beginning, with both of us and moderation agreeing to terms.

What say you?

I am ready and willing to put my Faith's position in the public arena and publically scrutinized.

I remain unafraid of the erroneous WTS/JW (Arian) position. It doesn't stand a chance against truth (KJB).

 

[Aunty Jane]

I am ready and willing to put my Faith's position in the public arena and publically scrutinized.

I remain unafraid of the erroneous WTS/JW (Arian) position. It doesn't stand a chance against truth (KJB).

Ummmmm.....You really are one of those people who can't take "no" for an answer, aren't you?
I would appreciate it if you would just put this down...I have no interest in a debate with someone who has such an inordinate need to be as "right" as you do. I do not need to read through screeds of copy and paste.

When everyone is talking, no one is listening. I have no interest in listening to you. You have no interest in listening to me. Its a waste of energy.

Why do you need me? Just put you beliefs out there and see who cares....

I also have no interest in the KJB....it was the first Bible I ever read, and is now the last Bible I would ever use, sorry. Its useless and completely outdated IMO.

I understand your need to prove your beliefs, but you will never prove them to me and I will never prove mine to you....stalemate. No point.

 

[Keiw]

πρὸς δὲ τὸν Υἱόν Ὁ θρόνος σου ὁ Θεὸς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος​

Is that martian? Its Hebrew. They Hebrew scholars know their language better than any trinitarian. There is no i am that i am in the OT . Its only trinity bibles that have it. Many other translations in history didnt have capitol G God in the last line at John 1:1 as well. Trinity translations are filled with translating errors. If a trinity religion was correct, catholicism was the first one. And the majority can see they do not have Jesus, Yet fail to believe they translated errors in tofit false council teachings.

 

[post]

Is that martian? Its Hebrew. They Hebrew scholars know their language better than any trinitarian. There is no i am that i am in the OT . Its only trinity bibles that have it. Many other translations in history didnt have capitol G God in the last line at John 1:1 as well. Trinity translations are filled with translating errors. If a trinity religion was correct, catholicism was the first one. And the majority can see they do not have Jesus, Yet fail to believe they translated errors in tofit false council teachings.

wow.

it's Greek.

maybe you are not very qualified to call things translation errors.

 

[ReChoired]

πρὸς δὲ τὸν Υἱόν Ὁ θρόνος σου ὁ Θεὸς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος​

koine Greek, translating from Psalms 45:6 in Hebrews 1:8, it translates to

Unto (towards) [pros de] the [ton] Son [uion], thy (your) [sou] 'the' [o] Throne [thronos], 'the' [o] God [theos] is [eis] the [ton] forever and ever [aiwna tou aiwnos].

Literally, 'the throne of you (yours), the God', which would be better in English as, 'the throne of yours (Son), God, is forever and ever'.

The Hebrew says the same (Psalms 45:6 HOT):

כסאך אלהים עולם ועד שבט מישר שבט מלכותך׃

Kiš'ákhä élohiym ôläm wäed shëve† miyshor shëve† mal'khûtekhä

Thy throne [Kis'akha] Elohiym (Gods) [elohiym] (is) forever/perpetual (no end in sight) [olam] and [wa] ongoing (ever without ceasing) [ed], scepter [shevet] (is) level/correct/right/true [miyshor] (is the) scepter [shevet] (of thy/the) kingdom [mal'khutekha].

 

[ReChoired]

I have no interest in listening to you. You have no interest in listening to me.

I noticed you have no interest in listening to me, telling you the truth. However, I have always listened to you, and specifically asked you three times now to present on three topics in a one to one, so that I can focus specifically on your posts without distraction.

Thus, I am open, and you misrepresented me by several strawman. You are not open by your own statement.

 

[ReChoired]

I do not need to read through screeds of copy and paste.

I gave you three opportunities to enter into simple presentation of three topics where I even gave opportunity to set the rules beforehand on how much, etc.

So far, I think you are projecting upon me what you yourself has done in citing irrelevant sources (which when seen in their own context, refute the WTS/JW position).

 

[ReChoired]

Why do you need me?

Because of your spiritual condition (I am very sad for you). I stated that earlier for which I was flagged for 'hate speech', when it was actually love speech to tell you the truth.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Because of your spiritual condition (I am very sad for you). I stated that earlier for which I was flagged for 'hate speech', when it was actually love speech to tell you the truth.

Do you ever stop....?

This is harassment....put it down already, I am not interested in your opinion.....that is all you have here.

Its your truth...not mine. OK?
Looks like the only person you are trying to convince here is yourself.

I'm putting you on "Ignore". Silence is "required".

 

[ReChoired]

Do you ever stop....? ...

Jesus never stopped loving Judas, even to the very last moment, by washing his feet. It was only when they put the Holy Ghost on 'ignore', by closing their eyes and stopping their ears, that He could no longer reach them.

I pity any religion, when confronted with truth, that must close itself off, because it cannot be openly and publicly defended from scripture.

 

[ReChoired]

Its your truth...not mine. OK?

That's pluralism, and unscriptural. There is only "the truth" (John 14:6: Psalms 119:142,151 KJB).

 

[ReChoired]

his “firstborn” and “only begotten”. (Colossians 1:15; John 3:16)

Neither word means "created". WTS/JW are simply trained to say those things mean "created", when they mean no such thing, even in the context that they are given.

"Firstborn" deals with Jesus headship over all creation, having the "preeminence". Time is not a factor.

"Only begotten" has nothing to do with time, but with nature. It refers to the eternal Son's nature as Deity as in relation to the Father's eternal nature. Just as the word "angel" carries no other definition than "messenger, ambassador one who carries a message" and never inherently carries a definition of created, same with this phrase. Nature (Deity), not chronology (time).

 

[ReChoired]

What I would like to know, is why do WTS/JW reject the entire historical position that Michael is the uncreated Creator, the Person/Being of the Son, and why do Catholics reject the entire historical position that Michael is Jesus and not a created angel, and why do protestants reject their historical position to take up Catholicism's position, and why do WTS/JW go half-way back to Catholicism in the present position in rejecting the Eternal Deity of Michael when the entire Reformation and before 'fought' in word against it?

 

[ReChoired]

Mistranslation by Catholicism to fit false council teachings

why then do Jews translate Psalms 45:6 (7) this way:

"7Your throne, O judge, [will exist] forever and ever; the scepter of equity is the scepter of your kingdom." - https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16266/jewish/Chapter-45.htm

"45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre." - Tehillim (Psalms): Chapter 45

"Your cdivine throne-c is everlasting; your royal scepter is a scepter of equity." - Psalms 45:8

See 1 Chronicles 17:17 for a comparison, "in thine eyes, O God"; "B'ëyneykhä élohiym"; " בְּעֵינֶי אֱלֹהִים"

See Psalms 36:7 for a comparison, "thy lovingkindness, O God", "chaš'D'khä élohiym", "חַסְדְּ אֱלֹהִים ".

See Psalms 48:9,10, 68:24, 69:29, 71:19, 72:1, 76:6, 77:13, etc, etc.

 

[n2thelight]

Revelation 12:7-8 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Michael the archangel is in this verse contending with Satan who is the dragon. Satan and his angels fight Michael and his angels.

If this were Jesus fighting, there wouldn’t be a battle at all. Why? Jesus is all powerful and ALL MIGHTY!!!

 

[Keiw]

koine Greek, translating from Psalms 45:6 in Hebrews 1:9, it translates to

Unto (towards) [pros de] the [ton] Son [uion], thy (your) [sou] 'the' [o] Throne [thronos], 'the' [o] God [theos] is [eis] the [ton] forever and ever [aiwna tou aiwnos].

Literally, 'the throne of you (yours), the God', which would be better in English as, 'the throne of yours (Son), God, is forever and ever'.

The Hebrew says the same (Psalms 45:6 HOT):

כסאך אלהים עולם ועד שבט מישר שבט מלכותך׃

Kiš'ákhä élohiym ôläm wäed shëve† miyshor shëve† mal'khûtekhä

Thy throne [Kis'akha] Elohiym (Gods) [elohiym] (is) forever/perpetual (no end in sight) [olam] and [wa] ongoing (ever without ceasing) [ed], scepter [shevet] (is) level/correct/right/true [miyshor] (is the) scepter [shevet] (of thy/the) kingdom [mal'khutekha].

trinity translation, done by catholicism translators centuries ago to fit the false god they created. Israel never served a trinity because God is not a trinity. God does not change. You cant get by that fact.