Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[CharismaticLady]

Which is more difficult to live:
The Law of Moses says in the 6th commandment: thou shalt not commit adultery.
The Law of Christ says in Matthew 5:28: That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Which one of these laws is the more difficult to keep. Moses says don't physically commit adultery. Christ says if you lust after a woman you have committed adultery.

Which of these laws is the letter and which is the spirit?

The Old Covenant letter of the law (i.e.the act of adultery) could never make anyone righteous, because lust was still there. I think you agree? But that is because the carnal nature was present and Jesus had not died yet to free us from that curse.

The New Covenant of Spirit, is far deeper to the core of us where our nature resides. That is why Jesus has provided His Own Spirit to come into us making us born again of a new nature like His, that has no desire to sin, and does not lust after another person's spouse in their heart. 1 John 3:5-9.

The Old Letter of the Law was far harder to live, because we were powerless, and our nature was in opposition to the law and is a complete struggle to fight against the flesh.

The New Spirit of the Law would be far harder for someone without a new nature, but for a born again of the Spirit Christian the law of LOVE is now our nature and we naturally want righteousness without any struggle at all. "My yoke is easy and my burden is light."

 

[Nancy]

Love God, Love others, (especially those of the household of faith)...all the rest of the Law hangs from these two... If we are free in Christ, we are free indeed. To me, if one "works" for 6 days, then the rest should be on the 7th day, no matter which day of the week it may fall on.

You know I love you Phoneman, I just cannot get past this.

 

[Gregory]

If you were at war with the Law of Moses, by and by you will come to be at war with the Law of Christ. It is Christ that gave the Law of Moses and it is Christ that gave the Law of Christ. I hope that is not the case but I fear it can happen.

If your employer routinely asks you to work on you holy day, then I would change employment so that I can worship the true master on his day. Then I become a true light to the world of what is really important.

 

[Gregory]

As part of the MOsaic Law and the reasons they were given in the Mosaic Law? NO NO NO

But as part of living righteously we do have 9 of the 10 that were carried over into the law of Christ.

That is what I believe, we need to keep the 10 commandments today, as part of the Law of Christ.

 

[Gregory]

That’s exactly right.

The law of Christ aka the law of love aka the two love commands replaced the Decalogue.

The ten commands are such an integral part of the 613 statutes and commands and ordinances in the Law of Moses, that they are even called in scripture, “the covenant written on two tables of stone”, and the Bible is very clear that the old covenant has ended, replaced by a better covenant, founded on better promises.

The reason people are so against admitting that the two love commands replaced the letter that kills, (the Decalogue), is that there is no sabbath day commandment in them.

So you are saying that the 2 love commandments replaced the 10 commandments. Is this another way of saying the 2 love commandments have included the 10 commandments but in a higher kind of way?

I am kind of interested in the concept that the "letter kills". How does the letter kill? For instance, the 8th commandments says: Thou shalt to steal. If I determine to keep the letter of this commandment and not steal, how does that kill me?
If I determine to keep the letter of the 5th commandment, Thou shalt not kill, how does that kill me?

I could ask the same question for all 10 commandments. Could you help me with this?

 

[Gregory]

One inspired writer wrote that "be ye holy, for I am holy" means we are to be holy "in our sphere" even as He is holy "in His sphere".

I preached that recently to a congregation and told them it means this: A first grade student can get an "A" on his test and a PhD student can get an "A" on his test, and the one does not diminish from the other - they are BOTH regarded as exceptional: the one in his "sphere" and the other in his "sphere".

So to take that a little further, if the first grade student took the PhD' exam, he would fail it. Did God expect us to fail his admonition to be holy, even as he is holy.

God also told us in Matthew 5 to be perfect, even as he is perfect. I believe God wants us to be holy, even as he is holy. It may take some time to reach that grade of holiness, but eventually I believe God has opened the door for us to be just like him.

 

[Gregory]

The Old Covenant letter of the law (i.e.the act of adultery) could never make anyone righteous, because lust was still there. I think you agree? But that is because the carnal nature was present and Jesus had not died yet to free us from that curse.

The New Covenant of Spirit, is far deeper to the core of us where our nature resides. That is why Jesus has provided His Own Spirit to come into us making us born again of a new nature like His, that has no desire to sin, and does not lust after another person's spouse in their heart. 1 John 3:5-9.

The Old Letter of the Law was far harder to live, because we were powerless, and our nature was in opposition to the law and is a complete struggle to fight against the flesh.

The New Spirit of the Law would be far harder for someone without a new nature, but for a born again of the Spirit Christian the law of LOVE is now our nature and we naturally want righteousness without any struggle at all. "My yoke is easy and my burden is light."

very well said.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That is what I believe, we need to keep the 10 commandments today, as part of the Law of Christ.

Well the church has no specific Sabbath! We have entered into divine rest as it says in Hebrews and also as Paul said in Romans 14:

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

and our obedience to 9 of the 10 commandments written in stone has nothing to do with them being issued in the OT. It is because they are commands for the church to show they are righteous.

 

[robert derrick]

I'm sure most will immediately disagree, and rightly so. Jesus' fulfilling of the Spirit of the Law in us does not permit us to break the Letter of the Law.

Yes, the Letter of the Law is a killer, but to whom? To him who attempts to obtain salvation through observing it - which is impossible, according to Romans 8:7 KJV and Luke 17:10 KJV. But, to the Christian who keeps the Spirit of the Law forbidding lust - and by that will automatically be keeping the Letter of the Law forbidding the act of adultery - to him, it is not a killer, but a "Law of Liberty".

So, if the fact that Jesus is our truth, reward, and faithfulness does not permit us to lie, steal, or fornicate...why do so many claim that since Jesus is their spiritual rest, they may freely break the fourth commandment? To the contrary, if Jesus is indeed our inward Spiritual rest, we will demonstrate that by outward obedience to the fourth commandment, according to Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV. The only rest God ever took was literal rest from His work of creation on the seventh day; the only day upon which He rested, blessed it, and sanctified it. If He is indeed our spiritual rest, we ought to evidence that by literally resting on the seventh day Sabbath day. Need I remind anyone, it's not the fourth "suggestion", it's the Fourth Commandment, right or wrong?

There is only one Scripture for the New Covenant and law of Christ pertaining to keeping the Sabbath:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Col 2:16-17)


Can a person preach a law to others, that he does not judge them by? Can we teach a law on pain of guilt. if we do not obey, and yet not judge as guilty them that disobey?

 

[robert derrick]

very well said.

That is the crux of it. I believe James is exposing faith without works as being not faith at all, but Paul was exposing works without faith as being no justification and righteousness with God.

No matter how closely and perfectly we keep the law of God outwardly, without faith it is impossible to please God, and without charity it is only carnally done. (Heb 11) (1 Cor 13)

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing." (John 6)

 

[Gregory]

That is the crux of it. I believe James is exposing faith without works as being not faith at all, but Paul was exposing works without faith as being no justification and righteousness with God.

No matter how closely and perfectly we keep the law of God outwardly, without faith it is impossible to please God, and without charity it is only carnally done. (Heb 11) (1 Cor 13)

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing." (John 6)

I think you have just reconciled James and Paul. Not easy to do, but you did it. Thanks

 

[CharismaticLady]

That is what I believe, we need to keep the 10 commandments today, as part of the Law of Christ.

The Ten Commandments say nothing about the Messiah. Or not lusting after your neighbor's spouse, or hating your neighbor. It could not make anyone righteous, and were only in place until Jesus issued in the New Covenant of promise. The commandments of the New Covenant are in 1 John 3:23 and if kept, not only make you righteous, but easily cover all the shallow commandments of the Old Covenant. Even the Sabbath. Not the letter of the law of a physical day once a week, but the Spirit of the Law of trusting in Jesus every moment with all your heart, mind and strength.

Galatians 3:19
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

Hebrews 8:13
3 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Gregory, you may be thinking of James 2:8-11. But James is only comparing the old with the new. You may not know it, but the New Covenant that you know is based on LOVE, is what we are to judge by called the law of liberty, which you know is a stronger law. James 2:12; James 1:25.

 

[CharismaticLady]

If your employer routinely asks you to work on you holy day, then I would change employment so that I can worship the true master on his day. Then I become a true light to the world of what is really important.

You should always live up to your knowledge of God's requirements, otherwise it is a sin to you, and God will honor you for your integrity. Romans 14: Philippians 3:16.

 

[post]

If your employer routinely asks you to work on you holy day, then I would change employment so that I can worship the true master on his day. Then I become a true light to the world of what is really important.

If refusing to help those in need is how you worship God I am not sure you have understood

 

[robert derrick]

I think you have just reconciled James and Paul. Not easy to do, but you did it. Thanks

And then I believe there is the 3rd side to it.

Paul was addressing two ways of doing good works, even those of the law, without faith, and so unjustified with God:
1. Works without faith.
2. Works with false faith.

That is when the law being obeyed is not God's law as written but men's commandments and traditions, believed to be God's Word. (Matthew 15:9)

That was the error of the Pharisees. They had wholehearted faith in keeping the law, but they had introduced traditions and commandments of men, that God never said and never had written by Moses nor His prophets (Jerem 19:5), and so they were keeping made up law, that was being wholeheartedly kept by a deceived faith.

In that way, they were able to accuse the Lord Himself, Who gave them the law in the first place, of 'violating' the law of Moses pertaining to the Sabbath. They had introduced special personal rules into it, so that rubbing ears of corn and even healing was declared to be 'work' and so transgression of the Sabbath. (Luke 6)

And Christians have proceeded to do the same by preaching the Sabbath as law of Christ, when it is not written as such. Such Christians have literally turned a good law of the Old Covenant, into a man's corrupted commandment in the New. (Titus 1:14)

And so? Jesus was condemned for 'transgressing' the law of the Sabbath according to introduced rules of men, and now are His believers likewise condemned for 'transgressing' a Mosaic law of the Sabbath by men reintroducing it as law of Christ.

They not only obey a law falsely, being deceived in the heart, but they likewise condemn the innocent falsely according to a law that is not of Christ. (Matthew 12:7)

Where no law is, there is no transgression (Rom 4:15), and where man's law is, there becomes transgression, where no transgression ought to be.

 

[robert derrick]

If your employer routinely asks you to work on you holy day, then I would change employment so that I can worship the true master on his day. Then I become a true light to the world of what is really important.

So that I can worship...So, you confess to needing a day of time off that you can worship, as in you cannot worship God while working...

So, worshipping in Spirit and in truth can only be done at certain times of a day, or certain days at a time.

The deeper you go into this, the more carnally minded you become.

That is the same carnal thinking of them that could only worship in Jerusalem. (John 4:20)

I'm just glad I can worship God wherever and whenever, because He is with me, and I worship and please Him wherever and whenever by faith in His Spirit.

"Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God, and refusing to work on the Sabbath...And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening, and ensuring they work not on the Sabbath..."

Yes, we can worship God at work, whatever day that may be, but doing such work as unto the Lord, and not unto the bossman only.

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Col 2:16-17)

 

[robert derrick]

If your employer routinely asks you to work on you holy day, then I would change employment so that I can worship the true master on his day. Then I become a true light to the world of what is really important.

And obviously that was not the job or career that God gave you, especially not in sports nor politics nor military nor police nor fire nor...

Do they get exemptions? A sure fire way of knowing the difference between God's law and man's, is men must start making 'exemptions' in order to live in the world according to men's commandments...

 

[CharismaticLady]

If refusing to help those in need is how you worship God I am not sure you have understood

Do you believe all jobs are helping those in need? I don't. He is talking about not working on the Sabbath according to the 4th commandment.

 

[post]

And obviously that was not the job or career that God gave you, especially not in sports nor politics nor military nor police nor fire nor...

Do they get exemptions? A sure fire way of knowing the difference between God's law and man's, is men must start making 'exemptions' in order to live in the world according to men's commandments...

How many people believe this then go to eat lunch religiously, making a kitchen crew serve them, and call that sabbath?

When God said go two miles with the one who asks you to go one, to give your coat also to a thief who takes your shirt, that you're no better than a heathen if you only love those you think aren't heathans, that great love is setting aside your own life for someone else, considering everyone more important than you, doing good to your enemies without grumbling and making yourself the servant of your neighbors - when God said whatever you do to the one you call 'least' you do to Him and that you should give to everyone who asks you without demanding it back...
Whose yoke is He telling us to put on by doing this, and does He stop working?

Entering His rest is ceasing to do your own work, and joining Him in His.

IMO anyone who is claiming 'sabbath' to refuse all these commands & think they are justifying themselves through inaction does not understand Who He is and what He does.

Do you believe all jobs are helping those in need? I don't. He is talking about not working on the Sabbath according to the 4th commandment.

He is talking about boasting in self righteousness while ignoring the commandment 'love your neighbor' and thinking of his boss as his own unclean servant instead of considering himself the servant and walking in the shoes of the Son of Man who came not to be served, but to serve, Whom they sought to kill because He did good works serving sinners on sabbath days, healing them.

he would murder me in his heart if I made myself someones servant on some day he thinks is special serve-not day.

 

[post]

Just FYI ((because i know i will be attacked for glorifying God by what i have just written)) i am writing these things being myself someone who remembers the sabbath.

so y'all can drop those false accusations floating around in your hearts now, before typing them.