Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[Phoneman777]

This blatant error is just sloppiness of those that don't really care about accuracy, so long as it tickles their ears real good to hear it.

The tables that did made it into the ark were those hewn by Moses and written by Moses during his next assent to the mount:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest." (Ex 34: 1)

You seem to have totally missed this part: "and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest."

Who wrote on the second set of tables? God did. (hands robert derrick a mop)

 

[kcnalp]

I'm just quoting the Bible: Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV says it's the duty of Christians to keep the Sabbath because if we're resting inwardly in Jesus, we'll evidence that by resting outwardly from our work on the seventh day "as God did from His".

No Sabbath COMMAND in Hebrews! The Sabbath COMMANDS were ONLY for Israel! NOBODY else.

 

[Phoneman777]

2. "The Mosaic Law was written by the hand of Moses, written on scrolls, placed outside the Ark." This 'Mosaic law', which is called by Scripture the book of the law, which was likewise written by Moses, was put in the side of the ark, not beside the ark. (Deut 31:24)

Some scholars say the Ark had an outside pocket, others saying the Mosaic Law was laid against it. Whatever the case, the point is they were SEPERATE from the stone tablets, which is the point.

What book of the law that Moses had the Levites put into the ark,

Weeds again, eh? The Mosaic Law written in a book was NOT "inside" the Ark, it was outside "in the side of the Ark". The only things INSIDE the Ark were the Tables of Stone, the Manna Pot, and the Rod of Aaron (Hebrews 9:4 KJV). The "tables of the testimony" are not the same as the Mosaic Law (Exodus 32:15 KJV).The Mosaic Law was kept OUTSIDE the Ark so it could be "a witness against thee". How in the world could it be a witness to anyone if it was rolled up INSIDE the Ark? Please keep things Biblical.

This written book of the testimony was placed beside the written tables of stone, in the side of the ark. And in another place Scripture simply says this testimony was put in the ark, period. (Ex 25:21) And they would be there for a witness against the disobedient in future.

You are not getting it. "In the side of the Ark" is not the same as "INSIDE the Ark". I've already shown you that Paul mentions ONLY three things in the Ark, not four things, as you keep insisting.

They were not sitting around outside the ark being exposed to the elements, as well as the hands of men, especially by such men we see here, who openly handle the Word of God deceitfully (2 Cor 4:2)

They were not "exposed to the elements" - they were kept in the Most Holy Place...do ya think there might have been some special power of preservation in there with the very presence of God, the One Who says of His Word that it "endureth forever"?

 

[Phoneman777]

Correct. We are not free from the law of Christ that bearing false witness (Rom 13:9) and lying is a transgression of God (Rev 22).

But we free from the law of Moses that keeping Sabbath is commanded in the law of Christ.

Supply the Scripture that says so, even as I have for bearing false witness.

Do you have any idea how asinine it is to say Christians only have to keep nine of the Ten Commandments? Especially with all the NT evidence for keeping the same Sabbath that was created in Eden?

 

[Phoneman777]

My refusal to keep the 4th?

lol you have no idea what I do.
I am amazed you preach, yet you continually bear false witness

which command it that?

Yes, you continuously argue from an Antinomianist position. I bet you a bazillion dollars you don't keep the seventh day Sabbath holy because you don't believe it's our duty.

 

[kcnalp]

Do you have any idea how asinine it is to say Christians only have to keep nine of the Ten Commandments? Especially with all the NT evidence for keeping the same Sabbath that was created in Eden?

Don't you even know that 9 of the 10 are in the NT??? But no Sabbath COMMANDS! NONE!

 

[Phoneman777]

Keeping LOVE does not allow us to be liars. You seem to think that if we are under a stronger law than the Ten Commandments that we will break the Ten Commandments. But that's silly if the law now is STRONGER!

Yes, if we're keeping the Spirit of the Law, then by default we'll be keeping the Letter of the Law...EXCEPT when it comes to the Sabbath, right? Hebrews 4:9 KJV plainly says if we're resting inwardly in Jesus, we'll show it by resting outwardly from our labors on the seventh day "as God did from His". There's simply no other way to interpret the passage. Why did you turn your back on the truth?

 

[kcnalp]

Yes, if we're keeping the Spirit of the Law, then by default we'll be keeping the Letter of the Law...EXCEPT when it comes to the Sabbath, right? Hebrews 4:9 KJV plainly says if we're resting inwardly in Jesus, we'll show it by resting outwardly from our labors on the seventh day "as God did from His". There's simply no other way to interpret the passage. Why did you turn your back on the truth?

How many people have you executed for working on weekends? Or maybe you don't like all the Sabbath COMMANDS?

Exodus 31:15 (NKJV)
15 Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

 

[Phoneman777]

The 7th day rest was an example. And then he says that ANOTHER day will be appointed - TODAY. Don't you understand it is not the old 7th day, but ANOTHER day?

What does "another day" refer to? To Sunday, like most Christians argue? Of course not.

It's talking about the "day" or "period" of David when Israel was supposed to enter into God's rest and enjoy eternal peace and fulfillment of all God's promises.....but since they rejected that rest, Christ had to speak of a "another day" - the "day" of the Church, in which we now enter that same rest and evidence that inward rest through the same means: by resting on the Sabbath day.

That's why Paul says it's the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath so we can show the world Who it is in Whom we are resting for salvation, that they, too, may enter into the same rest.

 

[Phoneman777]

It is a sabbath rest, but it isn't the same day as before. In fact, it isn't even a physical day. It is now the SPIRITUAL SENSE OF THE SABBATH REST, in the form of the Lord of the Sabbath.

It's most certainly the same day as it was before...do you not understand that we are going to be keeping the same Sabbath day in eternity that is our duty to keep in the here and now?

The Sabbath has never changed nor has it been suspended, and I don't see why thinking Christians who argue to the contrary can possibly be satisfied with such inconsistency in their scholarship.

 

[Phoneman777]

That is because the eternal laws of God are stronger than the Ten Commandments, not weaker. So we by our new nature that has the eternal laws, not the weaker Ten Commandments, written on our hearts. Therefore we naturally keep the stronger laws whereby establishing them.

So, you've substituted "Old Covenant" for "law" in Romans 3:31 KJV...please tell us all how it is you plan to "establish the Old Covenant".

 

[Phoneman777]

We will keep the moral commandments more perfectly than when the Ten Commandments were the Law, because they are now part of our nature to LOVE. We keep the Spirit of all the old commandments, but to the core of us, not just in an outward action. But the keeping of the 7th day Sabbath can ONLY be kept by the LETTER OF THE LAW, unless you know WHO the Lord of the Sabbath is, and keep faith in Him by the Holy Spirit. Therefore the keeping of an actual day of the week by the letter of the law is obsolete, and was the sign of the old letter of the law covenant. We are not under that law any longer, but a new covenant of the SPIRIT.

Yes, which is why we who rest in "another day" God spoke of - the day of the Church - we ought to be better Sabbath keepers than those who refused to enter into His rest in the original "day of David".

 

[Phoneman777]

NO!!!! Liberty from SIN!!!

Those who still sin are under condemnation. Only those who no longer desire to sin and are empowered by the Spirit to love have no condemnation because they ARE NOT COMMITTING ANY SIN! They do nothing against their conscience.

John 8:32-36 This truth shall set you free. Jesus frees us from sin indeed.

So, do you believe in the popular sentiment "In me, salvation makes no change except God's opinion of the sin that remains"?
If not, then you need to return back to Present Truth, dear.

 

[kcnalp]

Isn't it interesting how the Sabbath preachers ignore the Sabbath COMMANDS!

Exodus 31:15 (NKJV)
15 Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

No Sabbath COMMANDS in the NT! NONE!

 

[robert derrick]

Lies of Sabbath keepers by law:

1. The commandment of the Sabbath was with the promise of blessing...

"Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honor thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise" (Eph 6)

The 1st commandment with promise was the 5th. Right after the 4th of the Sabbath. The first three commandments were not commandments of promise, except for cursing if disobeyed or profaned.

2. The Sabbath was commanded before the law...

Subtly True. Within 3 months of the law and commandments given to Moses in the mount as a test for the Israelites in obedience in gathering manna (Ex 16). Beforehand there is no such commandment given by God to any man. If Adam, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Job, etc... did purpose a day of rest after God's example, it was by faith and free will, not by law, even as today.

The only commandments, laws, statutes given by god to Moses (Ex 26), that we know of were pertaining to the altar, sacrifices, offering the 10th part, and circumcision.

3. The tables of stone written in God's own hand were the only law placed in the ark...

Those tables were broken to pieces by Moses (Ex 32). The second set of tables were fashioned by him and written by him by God's commandment. (Ex 34:1,27-28)

4. The Mosaic law only was written by Moses, and was placed beside and outside the ark, and so they only were the handwriting of ordinances against us nailed to the cross...

The second set of tables were written by Moses, which went into the ark. Therefore the handwriting of ordinances included both the whole law in a book and on tables. And the book of the law written by Moses in the tabernacle were also placed inside the ark, in the side of the ark beside the tables of stone. (Ex 25:21)(Deut 31:24)

5. Only the temporary Mosaic law were of curses and nailed to the cross. The commandments of blessing continue still...

The 1st commandment of promise was the 5th, therefore the 4th of the Sabbath could not be a commandment of promise. And all the law and commandments written on the tables of stone placed in the ark were done away, and they are called the ministry of condemnation and death, not of promise. (2 Cor 3)

6. The law and commandments are separate from one another...

The whole law is one law (Lev 7), and the whole law of the Old Covenant is called the law of a carnal commandment. Commandments and a law were written on stone (Ex 24:12), not just commandments.

The commandments were written by the law, so that it is called the law of commandments contained in ordinances (Eph 2:15), and were abolished in the flesh of Jesus on the cross: the handwriting of ordinances wherein was contained the law and commandments, which were written in stone and done away with at the cross.

When Scripture declares the law and the prophets all hang on the two greatest commandments (Matthew 22), that includes the commandments of the law. If not, then those separated 'eternal' commandments do not even appear beside the 2 greatest commandments, and have nothing to do with them.

Therefore, if any keep any of the law of Moses, then he is debtor to do the whole law of commandments, statures, judgments, ordinances, and testimonies...

 

[Phoneman777]

Because it was the sign of the Old Covenant Law, and we have a new sign for the New Covenant that supersedes the old sign. Plus the context of the REST OF chapter 4 points to a different concept rather than the 7th day, but TODAY, meaning everyday. And not a physical rest, but a spiritual rest.

Why are you limiting the Sabbath to being only a sign of the OC when it is clearly a sign to all those who are sanctified by God? "..that they may know that I am the Lord that doth SANCTIFY them." Again, the Sabbath was made for M-A-N, not J-E-W.

 

[Phoneman777]

Your theory of temporary Mosaic law written on parchments separate from eternal commandments written on stone, with parchments only nailed to the cross rests on 2 things:

1. The commandments written on stone are eternal moral law of blessing only for the people, not cursing against us, were placed in the ark
2. The book of Mosaic law was penalty and curses against us and was placed beside and outside the ark and nailed to the cross.

1. The tables of stone in the ark were called the ministry of death and condemnation (2 Cor 3) as opposed to the ministry of Christ.
2. The law written on parchments was placed in the ark (Ex 25:21-22), in the side of the ark (Deut 31:24), beside the tables of stone, not beside the ark.
3. The law and commandments engraven in stone (Ex 24:12) that were in the ark were all done away with their glory (2 Cor 3:11).

You have refused to acknowledge these Scriptures proving your theory false, and then just said 'sorry' and repeated the same false 'proofs' as before. You are finished as a person to be taken seriously in matters of Scripture and law of God.

In addition:
You also err in saying the 1st tables of stone, written by the Lord Himself, were placed in the ark. But they were broken by Moses, and Moses was then commanded to hew new tables of stone (Ex 34:1), and he did the writing of the law and commandments on them, not God. (Ex 34:28)

You are sloppy with Scripture at best and lying against Scripture at worst.

Sorry? Yes, you are.

It is not "theory" - it is fact, which rests on this below and more. (BTW, when did I specify the "first" tables went into the Ark? Do you think I don't know Moses broke the first set? God wrote the second set - NOT MOSES - and they went into the Ark. God didn't even trust a MAN to write what you all think you can come along and change with a few strokes of a pen.)

***Moral Law Distinct From The Mosaic Law***​

The Mosaic Law was written by the hand of Moses, written on scrolls, placed outside the Ark, and was against them by virtue of the penalties and curses contained therein (Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV)....
...but in contrast, the Ten Commandment Law of God was written with His finger (Exodus 31:18 KJV), on both sides of stone tablets (Exodus 32:15 KJV), placed inside the Ark (Exodus 25:16 KJV), and contained blessings, not curses (Exodus 20:11 KJV; Exodus 20:12 KJV).

In 2 Kings 21:8 KJV, God promises Israel permanent residence if they keep His Law and the Mosaic law.

In 2 Chronicles 33:8 KJV, God promises the same if they will obey His Law and the Mosaic Law.

In Daniel 9:11KJV, he confessed that his people disobeyed the God's Law and the Mosaic Law.

In Deuteronomy 4:13-14 KJV, Moses says God commanded the people to keep His Law and commanded Moses to give them the Mosaic Law to keep.

In Leviticus 23:37-38 KJV, God said the annual Feast Day sabbaths of the Jews in the Mosaic Law were "besides" the weekly Sabbaths of the Lord contained in the Ten Commandments.

In Romans 7:12 KJV, Paul refers to God's Law (identified as such by his reference to the Tenth Commandment in Romans 7:7 KJV) as "holy, just, and good", but refers to the Mosaic Law concerning the Levitical priesthood as a "carnal" commandment in Hebrews 7:16 KJV

The Ten Commandments existed before Mount Sinai: Cain knew murder was wrong; Abraham knew lying was wrong; Abraham also kept God's "charge, commandments, statutes, and laws"; Rachel knew stealing was wrong; Jacob knew idolatry in the form of jewelry was wrong; Joseph knew adultery was wrong; and God chided with the children of Israel in Exodus 16:28 KJV for not keeping "My Laws" because they broke the Sabbath Commandment before they even got anywhere near Mount Sinai in chapter 20.

Paul says in Galatians 3:19 KJV that the Mosaic Law was "added because of transgression" -- transgression of an already existing law: the Ten Commandments -- "until the Seed should come". When Jesus was crucified, the Mosaic Law was nailed to the Cross with Him (Colossians 2:14-17 KJV) while the Ten Commandments will "stand fast forever and ever" (Psalms 111:7:8 KJV).

 

[robert derrick]

Isn't it interesting how the Sabbath preachers ignore the Sabbath COMMANDS!

Exodus 31:15 (NKJV)
15 Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

No Sabbath COMMANDS in the NT! NONE!

Those who continue to hold to carnal commandments and ordinances that are done away, become fully carnal in their thinking, such as these stupid questions that must be judged over: If someone holds to a Sabbath on Sunday, are they guilty? if someone holds to a sabbath on saturday only, and not on the evening of friday, are they guilty?

 

[robert derrick]

It is not "theory" - it is fact, which rest on all this and more:

Moral Law Distinct From The Mosaic Law​

The Mosaic Law was written by the hand of Moses, written on scrolls, placed outside the Ark, and was against them by virtue of the penalties and curses contained therein (Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV)....
...but in contrast, the Ten Commandment Law of God was written with His finger (Exodus 31:18 KJV), on both sides of stone tablets (Exodus 32:15 KJV), placed inside the Ark (Exodus 25:16 KJV), and contained blessings, not curses (Exodus 20:11 KJV; Exodus 20:12 KJV).

In 2 Kings 21:8 KJV, God promises Israel permanent residence if they keep His Law and the Mosaic law.

In 2 Chronicles 33:8 KJV, God promises the same if they will obey His Law and the Mosaic Law.

In Daniel 9:11KJV, he confessed that his people disobeyed the God's Law and the Mosaic Law.

In Deuteronomy 4:13-14 KJV, Moses says God commanded the people to keep His Law and commanded Moses to give them the Mosaic Law to keep.

In Leviticus 23:37-38 KJV, God said the annual Feast Day sabbaths of the Jews in the Mosaic Law were "besides" the weekly Sabbaths of the Lord contained in the Ten Commandments.

In Romans 7:12 KJV, Paul refers to God's Law (identified as such by his reference to the Tenth Commandment in Romans 7:7 KJV) as "holy, just, and good", but refers to the Mosaic Law concerning the Levitical priesthood as a "carnal" commandment in Hebrews 7:16 KJV

The Ten Commandments existed before Mount Sinai: Cain knew murder was wrong; Abraham knew lying was wrong; Abraham also kept God's "charge, commandments, statutes, and laws"; Rachel knew stealing was wrong; Jacob knew idolatry in the form of jewelry was wrong; Joseph knew adultery was wrong; and God chided with the children of Israel in Exodus 16:28 KJV for not keeping "My Laws" because they broke the Sabbath Commandment before they even got anywhere near Mount Sinai in chapter 20.

Paul says in Galatians 3:19 KJV that the Mosaic Law was "added because of transgression" -- transgression of an already existing law: the Ten Commandments -- "until the Seed should come". When Jesus was crucified, the Mosaic Law was nailed to the Cross with Him (Colossians 2:14-17 KJV) while the Ten Commandments will "stand fast forever and ever" (Psalms 111:7:8 KJV).

You are a disingenuous and puffed up child, who has no answer to Scripture that disproves you, and so your resort to copy and paste.

My time with you finished.

 

[Phoneman777]

Stating "there is no third option" does not automatically make it true. [fallacy of the false dilemma]

OK, I'll let Jesus do it:

"He that is not with Me is against Me".

"If ye love Me, keep My commandments" - "His Ten Commandments" which He spoke at Sinai, according to Psalms 78:1-2 KJV.