Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[robert derrick]

Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?
OP ^

A relationship of one Man and God is one thing...(which is being MADE by Gods works, Free from Sin. Which Sin IS being Against God.)

Relationships between Man and Man is another thing...(which No one has MADE man Free from Trespassing Against other men.) THAT is an ongoing issue for All men, by their Own works, to work out.
(And WHY, is because MEN do NOT KNOW ALL THINGS. And Because MEN do NOT know all things, they make promises they can not keep, they can cheat without knowing they are involved in a cheating scheme, and ultimately cause hurt, harm, to another, which IS their Trespass against another. )

People can lie, steal, and fornicate, whether or not they are Converted and Jesus IS "Their" Truth, Reward and Faithfulness.

The Difference is;
A Converted person CAN NOT Lie, To God
A Converted person CAN NOT Steal, from God
No person CAN Fornicate, with God.

Any person (Converted or Not), CAN lie to, steal from, fornicate with, another person.
THAT is Trespasses between two persons, and Scripture itself, teaches HOW TO AVOID that, HOW TO CORRECT that, and whatever Consequences the "one Trespassed Against", doles out, It is the Trespassers Burden to bare those Consequences.

Luke 6:
[31] And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Matt 6:
[14] For if ye (men) forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Gal 6;
[5] For every man shall bear his own burden.

Glory to God,
Taken

A Converted person CAN NOT Lie, To God

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Not confessing a sin is lying to God who convicts us of sin, and we call Him a liar, as well as lying to Him in denying sin and His conviction.

We also lie to ourselves: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Good post, but this thread is a lie. It's really about Sabbath keeping by law.

 

[robert derrick]

Just be careful you pick the one who tells the real truth, and not the odd ball who has an agenda.

Very true.

I have found that those who start talking about taking a really careful look at, or a careful study of, etc... is simply saying: I have a way of reading into Scripture what isn't there, so that I can continue to prop up my false doctrine, that Scripture doesn't support.

 

[robert derrick]

Either Sabbath keeping is still law of God for Christians, or it is not. Either Sabbath lawyers are lying, or Sabbath dismissers are lying.

And to not confess the sin of lying is to make God a liar and to deceive ourselves. (1 John 1)

I say it is the Sabbath commanders that are lying, which began with this lying thread, that proposes one thing but is by craft and secrecy another:

The thread proposes being saved and then sinning in transgression against law of Christ, but that title is really nothing but a lie to promote Sabbath keeping by law.

So, the Sabbath commanders have already started one lie by this thread itself.

I prefer people are just up front about their purposes and agendas, and not liars about it.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Either Sabbath keeping is still law of God for Christians, or it is not. Either Sabbath lawyers are lying, or Sabbath dismissers are lying.

"One person esteems one day above another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." (Romans 14:5)

 

[Taken]

A Converted person CAN NOT Lie, To God

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Correct. Interesting for a point of discussion.
However no one here is claiming "they HAVE NOT sinned".
So that point is not being Debated, Argued for or Against.

Not confessing a sin is lying to God who convicts us of sin, and we call Him a liar, as well as lying to Him in denying sin and His conviction.

Another moot point. No one on this thread is claiming, they have not confessed their sin to God.

We also lie to ourselves: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

It's well established, People without Gods TRUTH IN THEM, are deceived.
It's well established, Jesus, the Word of God, IN a man, IS the man having Gods Truth IN them. (And ^ that does not apply to a majority of People OF the World....but seemingly does Apply to the majority of people On this forum).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[robert derrick]

"One person esteems one day above another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." (Romans 14:5)

And the only problem is when people try to convince others the rule of their own mind must be believed and obeyed by others.

The distinctive mark of a false teacher and prophet is they absolutely will not and cannot 'live and let live' within the body of Christ. They become busybodies in other believers' affairs, stirring up confusion, trouble, and wrath, which is why God has put being a busybody in league with murderers, thieves and other evildoers. (1 Peter 4:15)

All the while they suppose themselves to be saviors of the errors and transgressions of the entire rest of the church, of which they have made themselves a very small, specially selective, and self-righteous part.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

 

[robert derrick]

One final nail in the coffin of sabbath commandos:

Those really special eternal and commandments written on stone, which are untouchable by God Himself who cannot be allowed to change them, because they have absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the law and the ordinances thereof...were themselves ordinances:

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us, Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace. (Eph 2)

The whole law of Moses is the law of commandments contained in ordinances: Whether written with God's own finger at first or rewritten by Moses, they were the handwritten carnal ordinances nailed to the cross.

There is no peace for them that keep Sabbath by law, who must decry and denounce the unbelieving heathen in the church of God, who do not. On Saturday.

 

[DPMartin]

bump

 

[robert derrick]

bump

The 1st note of bumper music...

 

[Phoneman777]

You read from your various translations to find what you want, and I will read from the single translation that I always rely upon to tell me what is true, not to tell me what I want to hear. And when people have to start diving into original languages to make make something simple in Scripture not so simple or completely different, then they have reached the end of legitimate argument.

If you want to be a Hebrew or Greek scholar, then talk to the Hebrews and Greeks, not me.

while the Ten Commandments are said to "stand fast forever and ever"

1. The 1st tables of stone included: Commandments, judgements, the making of the tabernacle, and the Levitical priesthood with the ordinances of sacrifice and service (Ex 24-31). They are summed up as the law, and commandments to be placed in the ark:

"Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written." (Ex 24:12)

The 2nd tables being placed in the ark contained: Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest. (Ex 34)

It is a lie to say only the 10 Commandments were placed in the ark: they included the judgments and ordinances for the priesthood.

Likewise, the book of the law containing the testimony of the Lord given from above the mercy seat to Moses to write was called His testimony, which was also to be put in the ark: And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel. (Ex 25:21)

It is a lie to say the tables of stone only were put in the ark.

The testimony of God in the tabernacle, called the book of the law was to be put in the ark, in the side of it, not beside the ark, but beside the tables of stone. (Deut 31:26)

2. (Psalms 19)

The Judgments were called true and righteous altogether.
God's precepts were all esteemed to be right, and anything against them was a false way, and the prophet would never forget them, for by them he was quickened.
The the soul of the prophet slept on His testimonies, and he sought them with a whole heart.
The faithfulness of God and His established earth is according to His ordinances.
God's commandments are all faithful
And the prophet loved God's law, it was his meditation all the day.

The law: it. Not 2 separate kinds, but one, even as God is one, and His ordinance is one, and His promised is one, not seeds.

There is no difference made between importance of commandments, ordinances, judgment, statutes, precepts, testimonies. All are spoken of as the same with equal import to God in righteousness and faithfulness to obey, and they are altogether given in the one and whole law of God.

Dividing law into separate parts and kinds, which God never did, is how separatists, elitists, and cultists divide the body of Christ, which the Lord hates. (Rev 2:6, 2:15) It does not matter what their doctrine and deed of doctrine was: it as a doctrine made by men, that such men did as by law, making themselves separate from the true doctrine of the apostles for the whole body of Christ. It is work and spirit of antichrist:

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. (1 John 2:19)

Sabbath keeping by law 'Christians' are Nicolaitan separatists and division makers, both by doctrine and commanded deed. You have have gone out from the doctrine of Christ and made yourselves no longer of us, it is not we who are not of you.

There be few that are chosen by God, but separatists suppose themselves to be the very very few 'chosen', not by God, but by themselves among themselves with their own really special making of law for themselves.

You are teaching apostate lies. No Christian in his right mind will argue we may disregard "thou shalt not kill" but, that is EXACTLY what you are preaching when you say we don't have to keep the Ten Commandments.

Oh, you say, I may kill but I don't want to because I love Jesus. Well, why doesn't anyone hear you say, "Oh, I may break the Sabbath but I don't want to because I love Jesus"???????????????????/

But, you DO break the Sabbath and not only that, but you accuse others of heresy by teaching we must...so, I guess that means YOU DON'T LOVE JESUS because you WANT TO break the Sabbath, right?

See what I did there? I showed that your religion is built upon a foundation of HYPOCRISY.

IF WE LOVE JESUS WE WILL KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, AND IF WE REFUSE TO KEEP THEM, WE SHOW THAT WE HATE HIM.

 

[Phoneman777]

What you don't understand is the commandments of God John is writing about in Revelation are the higher eternal laws that the Ten Commandments were fashioned after, but at a lower level to match their carnal natures. That is why that Law could make no man righteous. God wrote his higher laws on our hearts, reaching the very core of us, making us righteous through His Spirit. The commandments of the New Covenant of the Spirit, taught by Jesus are in 1 John 3:23 and are exactly like the higher eternal commandments of God to Love. They are of the Spirit, not the carnal letter.

And what you don't understand is that it is a false doctrine which says Jesus' commandments are the Two and not the Ten...because it was JESUS Who spoke the Ten Commandments at Sinai, according to Matthew 13:34-35 KJV, which confirms that the God, Jesus, Who prophesied that He would come and speak parables as a man is the SAME GOD, Jesus, Who spoke His commandments to the people, which was at Sinai (Psalms 78:1-2 KJV).

What did we learn?

1. The Two do not replace the Ten, but summarize the Ten.
2. Jesus spoke the Ten Commandments at Sinai, and later came to speak in parables.
3. The Ten Commandments will not pass until "heaven and Earth pass" and "all is fulfilled", the time of which any thinking person will argue has not come.

You need to repent and return to the Remnant which "keep the commandments of God and have the faith and testimony of Jesus Christ (which is the Spirit of Prophecy", according to Revelation 19:10 KJV).

 

[Phoneman777]

Just be careful you pick the one who tells the real truth, and not the odd ball who has an agenda.

The agenda driven oddballs are the ones who deny the significance of "Sabbatismos" in Hebrews 4:9 KJV when "Kataposis" is used in just about all the previous verses leading up to it, right?

But, let's just ignore that so we can keep forgetting the ONLY commandment which begins with the word "Remember", right?

 

[Phoneman777]

1. Sometimes it takes a study into the original texts to arrive at the proper conclusion.

And usually it takes a really deep dive into the original languages to twist perfectly plain translated Scripture. Both the created-christ and the Sabbath-keepers do it.

2. The 1st tables of stone included: Commandments, judgements, the making of the tabernacle, and the Levitical priesthood with the ordinances of sacrifice and service (Ex 24-31). They are summed up as the law, and commandments to be placed in the ark:

WRONG - it contained the Ten Commandments alone. The reason you're so screwed up in your theology is because you're reading something other than the Bible.

Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written. (Ex 24:12)

Law and commandments.

3. The 2nd tables being placed in the ark contained: Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest. (Ex 34)

Says right there He's going to write the Ten Commandments again on the tablets, but you keep insisting Moses wrote them. We call that "willful ignorance".

And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. (Ex 34:27-28)

Moses wrote upon the tables. The words of the covenant included the law, and the 10 commandments (Ex 24:12). The 1st time God gave the 10 commandments in Ex 20, Moses wrote them in the book of the covenant, before ever they were written by God in stone, along with His judgements. (Ex 24:3-4)

You are blind as a bat with the vail of Sabbath keeping over your cave's entrance. You have no clue what you are talking about.

4. It is a lie to say only the 10 Commandments were placed in the ark: they included the judgments and ordinances for the priesthood.

IT WAS NOT. It was placed OUTSIDE the Ark in the side of it, so that when people looked upon it, they could see it there witness to all just as a witness sits upon a Witness Stand and testifies against evildoers. IT IS ASININE TO CLAIM SOMETHING PLACED INSIDE THE ARK AND OUT OF SIGHT WAS A WITNESS AGAINST ANYONE.

The Lord commanded Moses:
And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel. (Ex 25:21)

And Moses commanded the Levites:
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. (Deut 31:26)

The book of the law placed in the ark, in the side thereof. Beside the tables of stone.

What is humanistically asinine is to think the people never heard nor knew what was written and placed therein. How could they know the tables of 'blessing' then? They were read many times over and over again in the hearing of the people, and the original copies were placed in the ark with the tables of stone. Even as the original Constitution is kept under lock and key, but any can hear and read for themselves.


5. That's funny. Paul mentions the pot of manna, Aaron's rod, and the tables of stone in the Ark, but NO MENTION of the Mosaic Law that Moses wrote in a book, right? BECAUSE THE BOOK MOSES WROTE WAS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE ARK SO THAT IT COULD BE A WITNESS AGAINST PEOPLE, NOT HIDDEN FROM SIGHT INSIDE THE ARK WHERE IT WOULD BE A WITNESS TO NO ONE.

Since we know God told Moses to place it in the ark, and Moses told the Levites to place it in the side of the ark, then we know it was in the ark, in the side. Paul did not mention it. Why? You figure it out. No need to? Papyrus not last as long as a golden pot, stone, and rod? doesn't really matter.

5. I showed you where GOD HIMSELF speaks of His law as separate and apart from the Law of Moses, but you refuse to beleive the truth. Only a fool will argue there is no difference between the two laws when it is clear that we are free to not keep Passover, but we will NEVER be free to break any of the Ten Commandments.

There is one law (Num 9). Not two.

The Passover was the first commanded ordinance for ever (Ex 12), and the Levitical priesthood was everlasting (Num 25). And they have changed. Only a fool would argue the 10 commandments are still all in effect, when the law of the commandments, and the coveant and Passover and priesthood are not. They were all called for ever and everlasting, and now they are not. Why not? They crucified the One Who gave it to them.

Only a bigger fool would think a sabbath-keeping law is more important than the death of Christ on the cross, and the Passover that foreshadowed His sacrifice.


6. Sabbath keeping is a sign of God's obedient followers,

Sabbath keeping is a proof of commandments of men.

You know full well you are not at liberty to break any of the other nine commandments

Here are the commandments in the loaw of Christ, the royal law of the Spirit:
1. Love the Lord thy God (1 Cor 16) 2. Love thy neighbor as thyself (James 2) 3. honor thy mother and father (Eph 6) 4. No idols (1 John 5) 5. Not kill (Rom 13) 6. Not steal (Rom 13) 7. No false witness (Rom 13) 8. No adultery (James 2)

I read 8.

Honoring mother and father was the 1st commandment with promise (Eph 6:2), not Sabbath keeping, which only carried cursing if not carnally kept under law of Moses, and now has no curse, because is not law of Christ.

When I heard the truth, I chose to follow God and obey ALL of His commandments. You chose to ignore them and make breaking them your boast...

When you were proselytized, you fell in line, and are now two-fold more child of hell than they, with ignorance and blindness to anything else. I choose not to be proselytized, and you are jealous of my liberty, even as the Jews of old, whom you emulate.

I don't boast of anything, especially not 'breaking' a commandment that no longer is law of God. I suppose I could boast somewhat in rejecting your childish proselytizing efforts.

now, which of us is more in line with what Satan does

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. (1 Tim 1)

But there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ...I would they were even cut off which trouble you. (Gal 1,5)

Whether circumcisers or sabbath demanders, you are all the same, and you separate yourself from the body of Christ by it:

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. (I John 2)

You break the Sabbath commandment and teach others to do so and therefore you are called "the least" by those in the kingdom, and the last chapter of the last book of the Bible says commandment breakers are NOT entering the kingdom, but only commandment keepers.

Please repent before it is to late for you, sir. God is not going to strive with those who fight against His commandments forever, but swift judgment will come upon them as surely as it did upon the Antediluvians.

 

[Phoneman777]

And right proud of it too. For sure.

Not as proud as you are of fighting against God's law, right? What a joke. My favorite preacher once said, "You can't fight God...you're arms are too short"...but the devil thought he could beat Jesus as you do, right?

And what was it that Jesus fought back with? "It is written, Thou shalt not..."

Yep, Jesus fought the devil with God's law, but YOU fight God's law along with who? Yep, you sure do.

 

[CharismaticLady]

And what you don't understand is that it is a false doctrine which says Jesus' commandments are the Two and not the Ten...because it was JESUS Who spoke the Ten Commandments at Sinai, according to Matthew 13:34-35 KJV, which confirms that the God, Jesus, Who prophesied that He would come and speak parables as a man is the SAME GOD, Jesus, Who spoke His commandments to the people, which was at Sinai (Psalms 78:1-2 KJV).

What did we learn?

1. The Two do not replace the Ten, but summarize the Ten.
2. Jesus spoke the Ten Commandments at Sinai, and later came to speak in parables.
3. The Ten Commandments will not pass until "heaven and Earth pass" and "all is fulfilled", the time of which any thinking person will argue has not come.

You need to repent and return to the Remnant which "keep the commandments of God and have the faith and testimony of Jesus Christ (which is the Spirit of Prophecy", according to Revelation 19:10 KJV).

In John 15:10 what would you call the "Father's" commandments? Be honest.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The agenda driven oddballs are the ones who deny the significance of "Sabbatismos" in Hebrews 4:9 KJV when "Kataposis" is used in just about all the previous verses leading up to it, right?

But, let's just ignore that so we can keep forgetting the ONLY commandment which begins with the word "Remember", right?

What is the covenant of Ishmael in Galatians 4:22-31 given from Mt. Sinai?
What is the covenant of Isaac of promise?

Ishmael was of the flesh, just like you have to keep the Sabbath day and remember which day, and remember not to work, and remember what is work and what is not. It is the letter of the law, and not of the Spirit.

Romans 14 commands me not to condemn you for keeping the day, but you are not to condemn me either for keeping my rest in Jesus everyday, and treating every physical day alike. Even though I passed the test of 100% of my prayers being answered, you blasphemed and said that Satan can answer prayers, implying that Satan is answering my prayers. You are attributing to Satan what is of God, which is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Repent.

 

[robert derrick]

What is the covenant of Ishmael in Galatians 4:22-31 given from Mt. Sinai?
What is the covenant of Isaac of promise?

Ishmael was of the flesh, just like you have to keep the Sabbath day and remember which day, and remember not to work, and remember what is work and what is not. It is the letter of the law, and not of the Spirit.

Romans 14 commands me not to condemn you for keeping the day, but you are not to condemn me either for keeping my rest in Jesus everyday, and treating every physical day alike. Even though I passed the test of 100% of my prayers being answered, you blasphemed and said that Satan can answer prayers, implying that Satan is answering my prayers. You are attributing to Satan what is of God, which is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Repent.

Got a little steel with that charisma. Good girl.

He teacheth my hands to war; so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms. Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy gentleness hath made me great. (2 Sam 22)

 

[robert derrick]

Not as proud as you are of fighting against God's law, right? What a joke. My favorite preacher once said, "You can't fight God...you're arms are too short"...but the devil thought he could beat Jesus as you do, right?

And what was it that Jesus fought back with? "It is written, Thou shalt not..."

Yep, Jesus fought the devil with God's law, but YOU fight God's law along with who? Yep, you sure do.

Not as proud as you

And so you are proud. Nailed it. It's called the pride of life in 1st John. The pride of things you do carnally in the flesh. This would be religious pride of a carnal commandment.

As I've said before. You're spittin made, because the body of Christ doesn't keep your carnal commandment.

Which is a wonder, since you know you're such a special and elitely proud Sabbath commando.

If I were talking with someone who said fornication is no big deal, then I would quote any one of the simple Scriptures condemning it, and walk away if the other rejected it as God's law.

But, you can't quote any Scriptures of the new testament condemning profaning the Sabbath, because there are none.

You haven't the first clue about rightly dividing the Word of truth. Like all cult groups, all you know and depend on and cherish is your own special rules to go by, that separate you from all other believers.

You, your backslapping compatriots, and especially your really great and grand poo-bah leaders are corrupted with pride, self-righteousness, and condemnation of the guiltless.

Nonetheless, I've got plenty of notes from you Sabbath-keeping lawyers on your law, and I have gained much good Scripture to confirm the heresy of it, so I am glad.

 

[Phoneman777]

In John 15:10 what would you call the "Father's" commandments? Be honest.

I've already shown you that betimes Jesus spoke as both God AND man, and the beauty of my religion is that I don't have to ignore this in order to have my points stand.

The God Jesus was there at Sinai speaking into the ears of the people HIS TEN COMMANDMENTS and later, He referred to them as the Father's commandments when speaking incarnate as a man.

Here's a new wrinkle for you: Wasn't Jesus called "the EVERLASTING FATHER"?

 

[robert derrick]

the beauty of my religion is

That is can make whatever I want out of Scripture and condemn those that don't agree.

The Jews did the same with their religion, callled the Jews Religion.