Jesus talked about hell more than any other person in the Bible. - Seriously?

[St. SteVen]

Brook Potter “When someone says that Jesus taught about Hell more than anything else in his earthly ministry, it’s obvious that person get’s their theology from Christian Television more so than from study.”

One of the most common logical fallacies used by Christians is the fallacy of Incredulity. It is sometimes called the “Lack of Imagination Fallacy,” because it basically assumes that if a person doesn’t understand, or can’t imagine a certain position, that position is automatically wrong.


Needless to say, that sort of logic is blatantly flawed. To this day, no one truly understands gravity, but it remains a very real factor in our every day lives.


When it comes to the subject of hell, there is great debate on the subject. For most believers, the doctrine of hell is an idol. It remains mostly untouched, unstudied and just accepted, for fear that they may end up there for questioning it.


But for some believers, they actually take Paul’s command of studying the Word to heart. They have actually invested a great deal of time and energy into this subject. In so doing, they have come to varying positions on one of the three major views, Infernalism, Conditionalism, and Universalism.


At this point, a person who may come to a different understanding of the topic of Hell, outside the Eternal Conscious Torment theory, is generally faced two common objections.


Firstly, it is believed that such a person has been deceived by the devil, followed by their abandonment of the truth of Scripture. With nothing more than a surface reading of Scripture, coupled with man-made traditions and teaching from the Church, most believers just cannot believe their Bible might actually teach something other than what they currently believe.


It is greatly dishonest to say that Conditionalist or the Universalist has been deceived or abandoned the truth of Scripture, when most believers in Infernalism wouldn’t even study the subject, far less read other believers’ arguments and Scriptural studies to see how they have arrived at their position.


So with that said, I’m looking at 4 common phrases used in the New Testament that are commonly believed to be related to the afterlife and Hell, to give an example of why our assumptions are not actually found in the Scriptures themselves.


For the purposes of this article, I’ll be skipping over the fact that there are four distinct words translated as Hell, and each has it’s unique uses, Sheol, Hades, Tartarus, and Gehenna. But anyone doing a further study, should look into these words more closely.

Source: 4 Misunderstood Phrases, we assume are about hell -

 

[St. SteVen]

1. The Unquenchable Fire​

Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

It is very easy for a person to read this statement by John the Baptist and take the modern literal meaning and say, “Ah ha! There it is! Unquenchable fire means the fires of hell burn forever!”

The Annihilationist may say in response, “Well yes, the fires burn forever, but not the contents! The verse says that the chaff will ‘burn up’, imply that they will eventually come to nothing.” So far from being eternal conscious torment in that fire, the person will burn up into non-existence.

The Universalist can say, “The phrase ‘unquenchable fire’ has been used in Scripture before to describe God’s judgement against Nations. When Jeremiah spoke about the coming destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians, unquenchable fire or fire that cannot be quenched was used to describe the national judgment.

Jeremiah 17:27 “But if you will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.”

Personally, I believe the Universalist has the better argument, his view actually gives a best match for the verse. When we compare Scripture with Scripture, we see other places where unquenchable fire is used to describe Jerusalem’s judgment in this life.

Jeremiah 7:20 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD: Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

The position of national judgment also fits the Annihilationist’s point about the chaff, being burned up. But we will explore than in the next topic.

 

[St. SteVen]

2. Worm that dies not​

Mark 9:43-44 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Jesus uses this phrase, of fire that is not quenched and where their worm dies not, three times in the book of Mark, while talking to the Jews. It is a repeat of Jesus’ sermon on the Mount teaching from Matthew chapter 5.

Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

The Infernalist may say, “You see, there it is, hell is forever and you’re alive through the whole process, because the worms don’t die, far less for the people!”

The Annihilationist may say, “Maybe, but the verse doesn’t actually say that the person isn’t burned up or consumed entirely by the worms. It can just as easily be argued that the worms, like the fire, are there to consume the person and bring them to non-existence.”

The Universalist can say, “Jesus is quoting a passage from the Old Testament prophet Isaiah, where he foretold the destruction of Jersualem by the Babylonians. The verse has nothing to do with the afterlife, as the people are said to go out and behold the dead bodies of the wicked breakers of the Law.

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Jesus is quoting this verse saying what happened with Babylon is going to happen again with Rome.”

If the Universalist is right, and these passages are talking about National Judgment, they would also satisfy the Annihilationist’ position, about being “burn up” and the people eventually coming to nothing. The difference is that the Universalist sees that people’s BODIES come to nothing, and that these verses are not actually talking about the afterlife.

 

[St. SteVen]

3. Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth.​

Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The phrase “weeping and gnashing of teeth” is used seven times in the New Testament. All of them are in the Book of Matthew, save one reference in the Book of Luke. It is commonly taught that weeping and gnashing of teeth is synonymous with the sufferings of Hell’s fire.

The infernalist may say, “You see, those in Hell will be weeping and gnashing their teeth over the missed opportunity to hear the Gospel, believe and be saved!”

The Annihilationist may say, “Yes, but it does not say that the suffering will go on forever. Their weeping and gnashing of teeth can be seen as temporary until they are eventually consumed in the flames.”

The Universalist can say, “Jesus is quoting from the book of Lamentations about the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians, as a warning of what was about to happen to Jerusalem by the Roman forces in 70 AD.

Lamentations 2:15-16 All that pass by clap their hands at thee; they hiss and wag their head at the daughter of Jerusalem saying, Is this the city that men call The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth?All thine enemies have opened their mouth against thee: they hiss and gnash the teeth: they say, We have swallowed her up: certainly this is the day that we looked for; we have found, we have seen it.

This is more evidence to suggest that the weeping and gnashing of teeth is something that happens on the earth, and not in the afterlife.

Another use of the weeping and gnashing of teeth, that suggest that the phrase may be used on the Earth, is actually the reference in the Book of Luke.

Luke 13:28-29 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

Verse 29 describes those who come from the north south, east and west and shall sit down in the Kingdom of God. The fact that there are no such directions in the afterlife can suggest, while not conclusively so, that these verses are talking about something that happens on the Earth.

 

[St. SteVen]

4. Hell used to describe National Judgment.​

Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

The last use of Hell in the Scriptures that I want to examine, is something that generally Infernalist and Annihilationist tend to overlook entirely. It’s the fact that the word Hell itself, is often depicted to describe national judgment in both the Old and New Testaments.

The reason it’s not discussed by either group is because it’s evident that the use of the word in it’s context, is talking about the destruction of a city, and not people. Seeing how the word is used in the other places of Scripture is the best way to determine it’s meaning in our texts. In the case of Matthew 11:23, it’s clear that Capernaum being brought down to hell does not mean the entire city descending into some infernal torture chamber; instead it means the city will be judged and destroyed.

Similar uses of the Old Testament word, Sheol, translated as hell, can be seen having the same use. Isaiah 14:4-15. While there is great debate about these passages being in reference to Lucifer (Isaiah 14:12), the context of the verses themselves suggest more inline with the King of Babylon and the nation of Babylon being destroyed.

We learn from verse 4, Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

This passage about Babylon’s judgment ends with the same words Jesus quotes concerning what will happen to Capernaum.

Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Both the Annihilationist and the Universalist draw their conclusion from the study of Scriptures, not the abandonment of it. Similarly, it is not deception of the devil, but rather the context, history and word studies of Scriptures that can lead people to a different view on the subject of Hell. I would argue that an Universalist, in order to arrive at that position, must have even greater knowledge and understanding of these things, in order to explain all the assumed hell passages in a different context.

On a final note, no Christian, no matter what their view of Hell, is ever in danger of going there. Many try to bully and intimidate people of different views, by threatening that they are going to hell if they don’t agree with their understanding. Anyone who suggests that, firstly is commiting the “Appeal to the Stick” logical fallacy, but secondly, they are admitting their belief that we are saved by our doctrines, and not by Grace through Faith.

I would remind such a person that Apostle Stephen, when he was stoned in Acts 7, was a Jewish believer of the Messiah. Everything about his understanding of Scriptures was centered around the Law of Moses. He never read the writings of Paul, or any part of the New Testament.

He didn’t know any of the modern Christian teachings that we hold sacred, and we would have nothing in common with him theologically, apart from our belief in Jesus Christ as Messiah. With that said, I would challenge any of these people who claim a different doctrine sends you to hell, to label Stephen a false teacher and claim he went to Hell.

 

[St. SteVen]

Hell Revisited – The Jesus Trip

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus talked about hell more than any other person in the Bible. - Seriously?​

I was going to ask; Since when is hell a person in the Bible? - LOL
But hell actually is a person in the Bible.

Revelation 20:14 KJV
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[Augustin56]

If I recall correctly, Jesus talked about hell about 90 times in the New Testament, and about heaven only about 30 times.

 

[St. SteVen]

If I recall correctly, Jesus talked about hell about 90 times in the New Testament, and about heaven only about 30 times.

What should we conclude?
Are we three times more likely to end up in hell than heaven?
Probably true.

 

[Augustin56]

What should we conclude?
Are we three times more likely to end up in hell than heaven?
Probably true.

I think He was more worried about those headed for hell than those headed for heaven. It's all about souls.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I read a blog where this topic was discussed. If the blogger is correct, we misunderstand passages referring to fire, weeping and gnashing of teeth, as Jesus teaching about Hell. But that may not be so.

I've pasted part of that blog. They were about to write a book on this and other subjects and refer to that in this excerpt. But, I tried to delete those references so not to distract from the overall article. I may have missed one or two.

Is it true that Jesus talks about hell more than heaven?​

References to “fire” are usually not references to hell.​

Jesus does speak about “fire” several times in the Gospels (e.g., Matt 3:10-12; 7:19; 13:40-50; John 15:6). But these references to fire are not references to a place of eternal torture for the unredeemed, but are simply symbols of temporal discipline and destruction that come upon some people as a result of straying from God’s instructions. Fire can even be for purification of believers (the Greek word for fire is pur) as seen in 1 Corinthians 3:15.


Sometimes Jesus refers to “hell fire” (e.g., Matt 5:22), but these are actually references to “Gehenna,” which I discuss in a later point.


The few references where fire may refer to the everlasting flames of hell are places like Matthew 25:41, and are used in reference to a place created for Satan and his angels. Do some humans end up there? It appears so, but again, this will not be for torture and torment.

References to “the outer darkness” and “weeping and gnashing of teeth” are not references to hell.​

There are several instances in Matthew where Jesus refers to “the outer darkness” and “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matt 8:12; 13:42-50; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30). These terms are sometimes used in connection with fire and so most people think they also refer to hell.

But they don’t.

A careful contextual study of most of these texts reveal that the image of “outer darkness” is a symbol of exclusion from blessing and honor, and the image of “weeping and gnashing of teeth” is a vivid symbol of deep and profound regret. The events discussed in these places are typically events that will take place at the Judgment Seat of Christ (which is only for believers) and the Wedding Supper of the Lamb (which is also only for believers).

References to “hades” and “gehenna” are not references to hell.​

There are numerous references in the Greek New Testament to hades and gehenna, and regrettably, most English translations translate these words as “hell.” But a place of eternal, conscious torment is what modern people think of when they think of hell, this is not what first century Jewish people would have thought of when they heard the words hades and gehenna.


Hades, of course, is the ancient Greek god of the underworld, the god of death. In biblical usage, it is often a Greek translation from the Hebrew sheol, which means “the pit” or “the grave.” Neither of these are references to hell, but simply refer to the hole in the earth in which dead people are laid (cf. Acts 2:27, 31; Rev 20:13).


There is, of course, the story about the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31, which seems to equate hades with torturous flames in a pit of hell. But there are numerous problems with understanding this text as referring to what really happens to people after they die (for example, Lazarus is there with the rich man and they can communicate), and so it is dangerous to take this text to literally.

Finally, Gehenna refers to an

actual place that existed outside the gates of Jerusalem. It was a little valley in which trash was thrown to be burned. This imagery must be understood wherever Jesus talks about “hell fire” and uses Gehenna (cf. Matt 5:22).


And do I need to say it? … Yes, I know a fuller explanation is wanted on all these terms and texts, but it will have to wait for the book…


When all of this is considered, we see that Jesus didn’t talk about hell more than heaven. He rarely mentions hell at all. As such, I think there is absolutely no place for threatening people with hell if they don’t believe in Jesus for eternal life. Yes, we can warn people (as Jesus did) about the disastrous temporal consequences of their sin, but threatening people with eternal torment in flames is neither Christlike nor theologically correct.


To say that Jesus warned people of hell and so should we is just plain wrong.

Jesus Really Didn’t Talk about Heaven that Much Either​

Blog found here: Does Jesus talk about Hell more than Heaven?

 

[Jack]

Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell!

 

[Patrick1966]

I think He was more worried about those headed for hell...

Well, Jesus runs Hell. Are you suggesting that Jesus was (is) worried about people going to Hell because then he'll have to torture them forever down there in Hell?

 

[Jack]

Well, Jesus runs Hell. Are you suggesting that Jesus was (is) worried about people going to Hell because then he'll have to torture them forever down there in Hell?

He does whatever He wants to and doesn't ask your permission.

 

[Rockerduck]

If John says he saw a lake of fire, I believe it. Stop, drop, and roll doesn't work in Hell.

 

[face2face]

Jesus talked about hell more than any other person in the Bible. - Seriously?​

I was going to ask; Since when is hell a person in the Bible? - LOL
But hell actually is a person in the Bible.

Revelation 20:14 KJV
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

No Steven, death and the grave here are being described as being no more - it actually proves the lake of fire is not a literal place!
You have also provided the community with a key verse which proves Hell is the grave.
F2F

 

[face2face]

I read a blog where this topic was discussed. If the blogger is correct, we misunderstand passages referring to fire, weeping and gnashing of teeth, as Jesus teaching about Hell. But that may not be so.

I've pasted part of that blog. They were about to write a book on this and other subjects and refer to that in this excerpt. But, I tried to delete those references so not to distract from the overall article. I may have missed one or two.

Is it true that Jesus talks about hell more than heaven?​

References to “fire” are usually not references to hell.​

Jesus does speak about “fire” several times in the Gospels (e.g., Matt 3:10-12; 7:19; 13:40-50; John 15:6). But these references to fire are not references to a place of eternal torture for the unredeemed, but are simply symbols of temporal discipline and destruction that come upon some people as a result of straying from God’s instructions. Fire can even be for purification of believers (the Greek word for fire is pur) as seen in 1 Corinthians 3:15.


Sometimes Jesus refers to “hell fire” (e.g., Matt 5:22), but these are actually references to “Gehenna,” which I discuss in a later point.


The few references where fire may refer to the everlasting flames of hell are places like Matthew 25:41, and are used in reference to a place created for Satan and his angels. Do some humans end up there? It appears so, but again, this will not be for torture and torment.

References to “the outer darkness” and “weeping and gnashing of teeth” are not references to hell.​

There are several instances in Matthew where Jesus refers to “the outer darkness” and “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matt 8:12; 13:42-50; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30). These terms are sometimes used in connection with fire and so most people think they also refer to hell.

But they don’t.

A careful contextual study of most of these texts reveal that the image of “outer darkness” is a symbol of exclusion from blessing and honor, and the image of “weeping and gnashing of teeth” is a vivid symbol of deep and profound regret. The events discussed in these places are typically events that will take place at the Judgment Seat of Christ (which is only for believers) and the Wedding Supper of the Lamb (which is also only for believers).

References to “hades” and “gehenna” are not references to hell.​

There are numerous references in the Greek New Testament to hades and gehenna, and regrettably, most English translations translate these words as “hell.” But a place of eternal, conscious torment is what modern people think of when they think of hell, this is not what first century Jewish people would have thought of when they heard the words hades and gehenna.


Hades, of course, is the ancient Greek god of the underworld, the god of death. In biblical usage, it is often a Greek translation from the Hebrew sheol, which means “the pit” or “the grave.” Neither of these are references to hell, but simply refer to the hole in the earth in which dead people are laid (cf. Acts 2:27, 31; Rev 20:13).


There is, of course, the story about the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31, which seems to equate hades with torturous flames in a pit of hell. But there are numerous problems with understanding this text as referring to what really happens to people after they die (for example, Lazarus is there with the rich man and they can communicate), and so it is dangerous to take this text to literally.

Finally, Gehenna refers to an

actual place that existed outside the gates of Jerusalem. It was a little valley in which trash was thrown to be burned. This imagery must be understood wherever Jesus talks about “hell fire” and uses Gehenna (cf. Matt 5:22).


And do I need to say it? … Yes, I know a fuller explanation is wanted on all these terms and texts, but it will have to wait for the book…


When all of this is considered, we see that Jesus didn’t talk about hell more than heaven. He rarely mentions hell at all. As such, I think there is absolutely no place for threatening people with hell if they don’t believe in Jesus for eternal life. Yes, we can warn people (as Jesus did) about the disastrous temporal consequences of their sin, but threatening people with eternal torment in flames is neither Christlike nor theologically correct.


To say that Jesus warned people of hell and so should we is just plain wrong.

Jesus Really Didn’t Talk about Heaven that Much Either​

Blog found here: Does Jesus talk about Hell more than Heaven?

Every person goes to hell (grave) and no one is going to Heaven so that would clearly explain this issue. The earth is the reward of the saints which is why it's a Kingdom "of" Heaven - the orgin of this Kingdom is coming with Christ to the earth.
Looking forward to the challenges that will present...especially for many in this forum.
F2F

 

[Jack]

No Steven, death and the grave here are being described as being no more - it actually proves the lake of fire is not a literal place!
You have also provided the community with a key verse which proves Hell is the grave.
F2F

Mt 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rev 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[strepho]

Luke chapter 16, Richman and Lazarus. Jesus gave a Analogy. The Richman ended up in sheol, called hell. It's holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked.
Lazarus went to paradise. Theirs Gulf that separates paradise and sheol.
What is sheol?? Its holding place for the spirtualty dead. They feel sadness, distress and fear.
Revelation chapter 20 states that the spirtualty dead were delivered from hell. The wicked and spirtualty dead are waiting for judgement day.
This is easy to understand.
The wicked wont repent. Pride is factor.
Humility and repentance is the key.

 

[Patrick1966]

The wicked wont repent.

Then Luke was a heretic and everything he wrote should be ignored based on the fact that your statement contradicts Luke and I know with certainty that your word trumps his.

Luke 3:6
and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.