Jesus was wrong

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Episkopos

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Sunday morning sermons, Bible studies, personal devotions, they’re all a waste of time.
Why?
Because these sorts of activities try to teach us about the peculiar sort of life Jesus called his followers to live. While that may sound like a good and important endeavor, it’s really a waste of time because the truth is Jesus was wrong about a lot of things he said.
Jesus said you can’t serve two masters, but we know that life must be lived serving many masters, work, school, friends, fun, sex. Jesus is certainly among them, but we must serve all these masters if we are to live a “complete” and “whole” life.
Jesus said turn the other cheek and not resist evil doers, but we that Jesus didn’t understand that when people come to take your life, you must respond with violence in order to protect yourself and others.
Jesus said to sell everything you have and give it to the poor because it’s easier for a camel to enter through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven, but we know that God really wants us to be rich or at the very least, not poor. After all, why else would we have all this stuff?
Jesus said never stop forgiving, but we know that there’s a limit to forgiveness when others hurt us too badly.
Jesus said that even lustful looks are sinful, but we know that sexuality is a defining part of our identity and therefore something to be celebrated and indulged in whenever we have the chance.
Jesus said the last will be first and the least will be the greatest, but we know that if we don’t fight for what’s “ours” we’ll get trampled upon by others and miss out on our “just reward”.
Jesus said to be humble, but we know that only the proud will thrive in life.
Jesus said to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, but we know that real life demands that all our enemies be defeated and humiliated.
Jesus said be perfect, but we know that God will forgive us anyway. After all, why bother pursuing holiness when no one’s perfect anyway?
Jesus said a lot of things, but we know better. We know how life in the real world has to be lived.
Now, we may never come out and say it that way, but our lives makes it pretty clear that Jesus was wrong and we know better than he did about how life can and should be lived.
We can fight battles till we’re blue in the face over the truth of Christianity, but every time we make decisions contrary to the teachings of Jesus, our actions declare to the world that the “truth” is Jesus was wrong. In other words, every time we choose to destroy our enemies rather than love them or seek our own comfort over others’ needs or trust in stuff rather than in God, it’s like we’re winking at our enemies and conceding “You’re right, Jesus was wrong.”
If we really believed Jesus’ teachings were the truth, though we would certainly stumble and fall in the pursuit of that calling, we wouldn’t spend so much of our time rationalizing or justifying why we choose to ignore so many of the things Jesus said. Though winning a debate may be momentarily satisfying, if “truth” is really as important to us as it seems to be, then the only way we as the Church have to prove the truth of Jesus is to incarnate the good news even and especially when it doesn’t make sense to do so.
That isn’t an easy path to tread and those who pursue it will certainly stumble along the way, but for the Christian faith, ultimate truth is not found in rhetoric. It’s found when Jesus’ words become our actions. It’s found in incarnation.
Which means, until we stop making excuses and start living lives that intentionally seek to match up with the gospel we preach, until then, the message we proclaim to the world will be “Jesus was wrong.”

Grace and peace,
Zack Hunt
 

whitestone

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The Gospel of compromise... quite the manner of presentation Episkopos. It certainly illustrates the worthlessness of the foreign gospel teachings of men who compromise right with wrong in their teachings, denying the power of God.
Those here who say that we can't do what Jesus plainly puts forth in the gospel (to move from sin) are only those who do not contain the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ resurrected. With Christ in us we see Him perform in us everything He says we will do! What a Blessed Calling we have :)
Oh well, hat's off to you in your continued labor in the vineyard of truth Epi. May your labor in the Lord be Christ Himself altogether in Righteousness!
Whitestone
 

Groundzero

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Sunday morning sermons, Bible studies, personal devotions, they’re all a waste of time.
Why?
Because these sorts of activities try to teach us about the peculiar sort of life Jesus called his followers to live. While that may sound like a good and important endeavor, it’s really a waste of time because the truth is Jesus was wrong about a lot of things he said.
Jesus said you can’t serve two masters, but we know that life must be lived serving many masters, work, school, friends, fun, sex. Jesus is certainly among them, but we must serve all these masters if we are to live a “complete” and “whole” life.
Jesus said turn the other cheek and not resist evil doers, but we that Jesus didn’t understand that when people come to take your life, you must respond with violence in order to protect yourself and others.
Jesus said to sell everything you have and give it to the poor because it’s easier for a camel to enter through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven, but we know that God really wants us to be rich or at the very least, not poor. After all, why else would we have all this stuff?
Jesus said never stop forgiving, but we know that there’s a limit to forgiveness when others hurt us too badly.
Jesus said that even lustful looks are sinful, but we know that sexuality is a defining part of our identity and therefore something to be celebrated and indulged in whenever we have the chance.
Jesus said the last will be first and the least will be the greatest, but we know that if we don’t fight for what’s “ours” we’ll get trampled upon by others and miss out on our “just reward”.
Jesus said to be humble, but we know that only the proud will thrive in life.
Jesus said to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, but we know that real life demands that all our enemies be defeated and humiliated.
Jesus said be perfect, but we know that God will forgive us anyway. After all, why bother pursuing holiness when no one’s perfect anyway?
Jesus said a lot of things, but we know better. We know how life in the real world has to be lived.
Now, we may never come out and say it that way, but our lives makes it pretty clear that Jesus was wrong and we know better than he did about how life can and should be lived.
We can fight battles till we’re blue in the face over the truth of Christianity, but every time we make decisions contrary to the teachings of Jesus, our actions declare to the world that the “truth” is Jesus was wrong. In other words, every time we choose to destroy our enemies rather than love them or seek our own comfort over others’ needs or trust in stuff rather than in God, it’s like we’re winking at our enemies and conceding “You’re right, Jesus was wrong.”
If we really believed Jesus’ teachings were the truth, though we would certainly stumble and fall in the pursuit of that calling, we wouldn’t spend so much of our time rationalizing or justifying why we choose to ignore so many of the things Jesus said. Though winning a debate may be momentarily satisfying, if “truth” is really as important to us as it seems to be, then the only way we as the Church have to prove the truth of Jesus is to incarnate the good news even and especially when it doesn’t make sense to do so.
That isn’t an easy path to tread and those who pursue it will certainly stumble along the way, but for the Christian faith, ultimate truth is not found in rhetoric. It’s found when Jesus’ words become our actions. It’s found in incarnation.
Which means, until we stop making excuses and start living lives that intentionally seek to match up with the gospel we preach, until then, the message we proclaim to the world will be “Jesus was wrong.”

Grace and peace,
Zack Hunt

Biting my tongue, or is it my fingers? :p
 

Strat

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The older i get the more i think Jesus calls us to a life of misery,one that we will gladly and with enthusiasm and joy leave behind when our time comes.
 

Episkopos

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The older i get the more i think Jesus calls us to a life of misery,one that we will gladly and with enthusiasm and joy leave behind when our time comes.

It is the mercy of God that we lose the pleasure of life so that we can turn more fully to Him. The lust and pleasures of this world are quickly fading. Even so Come Lord Jesus!
 

JohnnyB

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It is the mercy of God that we lose the pleasure of life so that we can turn more fully to Him. The lust and pleasures of this world are quickly fading. Even so Come Lord Jesus!
Don't you think He wants us to have some pleasure here? It just seems there is a ton of stuff to do and see, but we can still be devoted to Him. I can't imagine not being excited for what the Lord has planned for my day!
 
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Axehead

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I have never quite heard it put that way, Episkopos. It reminds me of the man in James, who looks into a mirror or glass and then when he walks away from it, he forgot what manner of man he was. I actually would like to post James 1:20 to 26. All of it seems relevant.


Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. (sounds like salvation is not a done deal. It depends on how we receive the word).
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. (WE MUST CONTINUE in the perfect law of liberty).
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

Axehead
 

Episkopos

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Don't you think He wants us to have some pleasure here? It just seems there is a ton of stuff to do and see, but we can still be devoted to Him. I can't imagine not being excited for what the Lord has planned for my day!

It all depends on the heart. If the heart is easily attached to the things of this world then in God's mercy may He make the sweetness taste sour to us.

It is akin to if your right eye causes you to sin...pluck it out!!!

I have never quite heard it put that way, Episkopos. It reminds me of the man in James, who looks into a mirror or glass and then when he walks away from it, he forgot what manner of man he was. I actually would like to post James 1:20 to 26. All of it seems relevant.


Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. (sounds like salvation is not a done deal. It depends on how we receive the word).
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Jas 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. (WE MUST CONTINUE in the perfect law of liberty).
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

Axehead


Amen Axe!
 
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JohnnyB

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It all depends on the heart. If the heart is easily attached to the things of this world then in God's mercy may He make the sweetness taste sour to us.

It is akin to if your right eye causes you to sin...pluck it out!!!




Amen Axe!
I understand where you were going. My line of thought was "rejoice in the Lord in all things" and "the joy of the Lord is my strength".
 

mark s

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The older i get the more i think Jesus calls us to a life of misery,one that we will gladly and with enthusiasm and joy leave behind when our time comes.

2 Corinthians 4:8-18 ESV
(8) We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair;
(9) persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;
(10) always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies.
(11) For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
(12) So death is at work in us, but life in you.
(13) Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, "I believed, and so I spoke," we also believe, and so we also speak,
(14) knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.
(15) For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God.
(16) So we do not lose heart. Though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed day by day.
(17) For this slight momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison,
(18) as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.

In telling us to rejoice always . . . this means we should be extremely happy all the time.

And when we realize what God has done for us, and has promised us, and is doing for us, no matter what our circumstances, we are happy as can be! And in fact, when our circumstances become worse, yet we still know what we know about God's gift, they prove the reality of our faith in His Word, and the reality of the faith inside us.

Love in Christ,
Mark
 
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Strat

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2 Corinthians 4:8-18 ESV
(8) We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair;
(9) persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;
(10) always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies.
(11) For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
(12) So death is at work in us, but life in you.
(13) Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, "I believed, and so I spoke," we also believe, and so we also speak,
(14) knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.
(15) For it is all for your sake, so that as grace extends to more and more people it may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God.
(16) So we do not lose heart. Though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed day by day.
(17) For this slight momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison,
(18) as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.

In telling us to rejoice always . . . this means we should be extremely happy all the time.

And when we realize what God has done for us, and has promised us, and is doing for us, no matter what our circumstances, we are happy as can be! And in fact, when our circumstances become worse, yet we still know what we know about God's gift, they prove the reality of our faith in His Word, and the reality of the faith inside us.

Love in Christ,
Mark

There is a difference between happiness and joy...
 

mark s

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There is a difference between happiness and joy...

Really?

What is Joy, if not extreme happiness? Do you mean some sort of theological "joy", that is not being extremely happy?

Please, show me.

Love in Christ,
Mark

True!

Happiness is temporal, joy is an attitude.


:)
Amen!

What does that mean, joy is an attitude?

Aren't happiness and joy both feelings words?

How would you describe an "attitude of joy"?



Definition of JOY

1
a : the emotion evoked by well-being, success, or good fortune or by the prospect of possessing what one desires :

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/joy

Are you saying this means something different in the Bible?

Love in Christ,
mark
 

HammerStone

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Seems like joy vs happiness is entering the world of semantics.

Joy ( Dictionary.com >> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/joy?s=t)
the emotion of great delight or happiness caused by something exceptionally good or satisfying; keen pleasure; elation: She felt the joy of seeing her son's success.

Happy (Dictionary.com >> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/happy?s=t)

characterized by or indicative of pleasure, contentment, or joy: a happy mood; a happy frame of mind.

Both can be longterm such as the phrase abiding joy and the humour happy wife, happy life platitude. Both can also be temporal, as in his joy turned to sorrow when he heard about the accident or he was happy about his test score.

I'm not knocking anybody, or their faith, but sometimes these little phrases can become a little overdone.
 

Episkopos

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Seems like joy vs happiness is entering the world of semantics.





Both can be longterm such as the phrase abiding joy and the humour happy wife, happy life platitude. Both can also be temporal, as in his joy turned to sorrow when he heard about the accident or he was happy about his test score.

I'm not knocking anybody, or their faith, but sometimes these little phrases can become a little overdone.

I don't know how interchangeable the "joy of the Lord is our strength" is with " the happiness of the Lord is our strength". They are of course very related but the way we use the words also denotes how they come about.

For instance we use "Happy is the man who" ....we say happy or blessed. So happiness denotes an emotion we feel when things are going great! :)

But joy (biblically speaking) is from within and has nothing to do with our external circumstances. We can rejoice in sufferings.

So if we wish to describe the deeper source that produces joy as opposed to the common pursuit of events that lead to happiness...then we can differentiate these by using different words.

Of course these words could also be used interchangeably. But we are trying to communicate something deeper among brethren that goes beyond the feelings that hit us when things are going well.

Rejoicing is a command from the Lord we can obey as an attitude that thanks God for ALL things including trials and sufferings! So we could see joy as an active force that overcomes negative feelings....whereas happiness already lines up with our feelings.

That's how I see it! :)
 

JohnnyB

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Really?

What is Joy, if not extreme happiness? Do you mean some sort of theological "joy", that is not being extremely happy?

Please, show me.

Love in Christ,
Mark



What does that mean, joy is an attitude?

Aren't happiness and joy both feelings words?

How would you describe an "attitude of joy"?





http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/joy

Are you saying this means something different in the Bible?

Love in Christ,
mark
The joy of the Lord can not be described by Webster, it is something the world can not give you, only Jesus can.

Here is how I see the difference, if my parent's buy me a car, I'll be happy, but if they don't it will make me unhappy, but it still won't steal my joy that the Lord has given me.

Epi and I must have posted at the same time, what he said is how I see it, he just says it better.;)
 

mark s

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But what is that joy? Isn't it a deep happiness?

You are describing the source, not the emotion.

I may be unhappy over some circumstance, but I remain deeply happy - rejoicing - in God's love and forgiveness.
 

JohnnyB

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But what is that joy? Isn't it a deep happiness?

You are describing the source, not the emotion.

I may be unhappy over some circumstance, but I remain deeply happy - rejoicing - in God's love and forgiveness.
Isn't this the same as was just stated???

Except for some reason you substituted what the Lord gives with happiness?

If you can remain joyous in all circumstances then it is the joy of the Lord.