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Featured Jews Returning To The Promised Land

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Davy, May 11, 2019.

  1. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Davy, Davy, Davy, can you read the context of what I stated. It seems that you are clutching at a straw or something like that to show that I have written a false statement, were as you cannot even restate what I have written within the right context as I had presented in my post that you had quoted.

    I know that there are smarter people around than you.
     
  2. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    I just nipped your false assumptions in the bud before you ever really got started, as you well know Moses was not the subject, but Abraham was, and the event of Abraham's Faith and God's covenant to him.
     
  3. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Davy, you are so "right" in your judgmental attitude in your own mind that you missed the point that I was making. The first covenant that God made at Mt. Sinai with the Nation of Israel, who He had brought out of Egypt across the Red Sea, was the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy nation and His Possession among the Nations Covenant.

    In the Law given to Moses, God also told the nation of Israel that if they did not keep his statutes because of their stubborn hearts that they would lose their possession of the "Promised Land" but no mention was made of losing their inheritance promise of the earth if they repented and returned to Him. God articulated that through Moses the importance of keeping His statutes during all of the ages to follow.

    Davy, if you continue to claim that the above is false, and that your understanding is the only correct understanding, then you are only confirming that your understanding is false and flawed.

    I do not have to demonstrate this fact of your flawed understanding as you are demonstrating this fact all by yourself within your posts.

    Know what I mean.
     
  4. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Once again, Moses and the law isn't the subject.
     
  5. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    @Davy in Gen.12:1 did God promise Abraham land or the earth that he would show them?

    If your understanding here is not flawed, then the rest of your understanding of God's purposes for Israel will not be flawed, or at least will not start off Flawed.

    All of the prophets that I am aware of in the Bible did not prophecies that Israel had to return to the promise land in the latter days after the visitation of their iniquities on the fathers children and the children's children. The impression I have from their prophecies is that they will remain where they have been scattered to the four corners of the earth to be a blessing to all of the nations of the earth where they will walk with the Lord and the Lord will walk with them

    Zechariah 8:20-23: - 20 "Thus says the Lord of hosts:
    'Peoples shall yet come,
    Inhabitants of many cities;
    21 The inhabitants of one city shall go to/walk with another, saying,
    "Let us continue to go/to walk together and pray before the Lord,
    And seek the Lord of hosts.
    I {the Lord of Hosts} myself will go/walk with you also."
    22 Yes, many peoples and strong nations
    Shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in/who resides in Jerusalem,
    And to pray before/before the face of the Lord.'
    23 "Thus says the Lord of hosts: 'In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, "Let us go/walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you."'"​

    If we as Christians are allowed to walk with and Worship God where we reside scattered throughout the earth, then why will it be different for Jacob's descendants when God Establishes His Everlasting Kingdom on the face of the earth in our near future after the judgement of the wicked fallen heavenly hosts in heaven and the kings of the earth and their armies on the earth and gathering them together on the earth to imprison them in a pit for many days while awaiting their final punishment, when God Redeems them after the fullness in time of the Heathen Gentiles has run its decreed time span, after which all of repentant Israel will be saved?

    Does God require all of Israel to return too the Prescribed Land in Gen.15? No, He does not.

    Where will God gather the Israelites to Himself? Where He find them scattered throughout the whole earth.

    Where will the fertile fields be found for them to send down their roots into when God Gathers them to Himself so that He can teach them about the Kingdom of God? Where they are scattered throughout the whole earth.

    This is my understanding of what is happening now and in the near future.

    This if based on having the right understanding of Gen.12:1 and 7.

    Davy, where did God ask Abraham to head towards, which He, God, would show him in What was God Promising to Give to Abraham's descendants in verse 7?

    I await your reply. This thread may be about Jews returning to the Promised Land, but where is God wanting them to end up?

    Shalom
     
  6. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

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    The fate of the apostate Jewish State of Israel is well prophesied:

    Over the 20 centuries since the time of Jesus Christ’s first coming to earth, the Jewish people have suffered terrible persecutions, pogroms and discrimination.
    This fulfills several prophecies – that the Jews will be a curse and a derision in the world:

    Jeremiah 17:1-4 The sins of Judah is recorded on their hearts, the fire of My anger will burn forever. Isaiah 22:14

    Ezekiel 21:2-7 Son of man, set your face toward Jerusalem and prophesy against the Land of Israel. I shall draw My sword to cut off everyone from South to North.
    I will make away with both the righteous and wicked, My sword will be drawn against everyone from the Negev northward. All courage will fail – it will surely take place.

    Ezekiel 21:10-14 A sword is sharpened for the slaughter, polished to flash like lightning.
    Should we rejoice in the scepter of Judah? No, the sword condemns the Rod of My Son. Cry and wail for it falls on My people – all your rulers will be killed.
    Testing will surely come – what if the scepter of Judah, which the sword despises, does not continue? Swing the sword three times, the great sword of slaughter.

    Verse 14 is highly significant, as it may foretell three judgements of the Jewish people:

    1/ The Babylonian conquest in 585BC.

    2/ The revolt against the Romans, Maccabees to AD 70, when millions were killed.

    3/ The final gathering and judgement of the Jewish people in the Land.

    At the trial of Jesus, the Jews said in; Matthew 27:25 His blood be on us and our children. In the parable of the Landowner and the Tenants, Luke 19:14 ..his subjects hated him and said “We don’t want this man to be our King

    Luke 19:27 As for those enemies of Mine that did not want Me for a King, bring them here ( into the Land ) and slaughter them in My presence. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Zephaniah 1:14-18. Jeremiah 10:18

    Matthew 21:38-43 The parable of the vineyard - The wicked tenants said; This is the Heir, come – let us kill him and get the inheritance. The King will bring those criminals to justice and destroy them. He will then rent the vineyard to righteous tenants.
    Therefore the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you [Jews ] and given to a people who will bear the proper fruit.

    Ezekiel 16:35-62 The Lord is saying how He rescued and tended Judah, but her depraved conduct surpassed even that of her sisters, Samaria ( Israel ) and Sodom;
    Therefore, you prostitute, because of your brazen excesses, I shall assemble all those around you - whom you loved. I shall bring you to trial for adultery and murder.

    When I hand you over to them, they will strip you naked. They will punish you with stones and swords, burn down your houses and execute judgement in the sight of many women. You surpassed the sins of your sisters, Samaria and Sodom.
    Eventual restoration of a remnant; in your shame and humiliation.

    Jeremiah 8:3 The Lord says to the leaders of Judah; You will be as dung spread over the ground. This wicked race would rather die than live.

    Jeremiah 18:1-10 The Potter and the clay:
    V6 House of Israel, I will remould you as a potter would a spoilt pot.
    Israel, the Northern 10 tribes, are to be ‘remoulded’. Ezekiel 36:25-28

    Jeremiah 19:3 Proclaim to the leaders and citizens of Judah:
    V11 I shall smash this people as an earthen vessel is smashed beyond repair. There will be no room left to bury them.
    Judah, judged and punished, in this next prophesied event. Isaiah 22:1-14

    Psalms 69:35 for God will save Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah.

    This has happened now, with the Jews doing amazing construction and agricultural achievements since 1948.

    But, then...
    Psalms 69:36 The children of those who serve Him will inherit the Land and those who love His name will live there.
    It will be every faithful Christian person who will occupy all of the holy Land. They are seen there by John in Revelation 7:9 and later when the Anti-Christ conquers them; Daniel 7:23-25, Revelation 13:7


    In the land of Israel today, 42% of the Jewish population are secular ( atheist ) 25% believe in God, but do not actively worship Him and 12% practice Judaism, 8% are the extreme ultra orthodox Haredi Jews. In all the amazing things that have happened to the Jews since 1948 – their resettlement, restored language and wars won, they still do not acknowledge Gods hand in their affairs.
     
  7. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    If MY... understanding isn't flawed? You cannot even comprehend the literal Scripture, but keep making up your own doctrine. Here is where God showed what lands Abraham would inherit, not in Genesis 12, but in Genesis 14...

    Gen 13:14-15
    14 And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:


    15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

    KJV

    Do you really... think that means Abraham saw the whole earth there? If you do think that, then it's a sign you are not keeping to what is written there.


    Well, I guess you can't comprehend the Zechariah 8 Scripture either, because it's about the Gentiles who believe trekking with believing Israelites back to the holy land to worship God where Jesus will be in that future time of His "thousand years" reign of Rev.20.

    You instead are trying to insert man's philosophy with a 'kingdom now' falsehood. The doctrine of man you follow must really... butcher the Ezekiel 37 Scripture about the return of the ten tribes of Israel back to the holy land, with David setup as their king there, and with one Lord (Jesus) over them.
     
  8. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Davy, there is no need for me to replay to your post above as you have demonstrated that you do not know from any reasonable research
    that you have done
    whether or not your favourite reference English Translation has faithfully conveyed the actual intended to message in the original source texts for that translation into the message content of your favourite translation. The fact that there are many translations that have the same flaw within them means that doing a comparison as to how the original text was translated into each version does not provide proof that the message content is correct. It only confirms that all of the translation versions are flawed.

    This is how I would paraphrase the original source text into English: -

    For "the boundary of" all the earth which you see I will give to your descendants even to the end of a long period of time.
    It gives a completely different understanding of what God was promising to do. In Gen. 15 God specifies the boundaries of the land that Abraham saw during his lifetime, as a sign prophecy to confirm that God would give Abraham and his descendants the whole earth in the distant future.

    As a point of interest, what is it that you see is your righteous inheritance after the GWTRJ?

    Shalom
     
  9. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    You have a fixation on the "Promised Land", just like the Jews still have, and as such you are following the traditions of the Israelites and their understanding.

    Revelation speaks of a renewed/refurbished earth that the righteous saints will inherit. Something far bigger than the Land of Canaan.

    Shalom
     
  10. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

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    Psalms 37:29 The righteous will possess the Land and will live there forever.
    Romans 9:24-26 ….in the same place as the ancient Israelites were told: you are not My people, you Christians will be the sons of the Living God.

    Many prophesies plainly say that the holy Land still has great significance and will be the place Jesus will rule from.
     
  11. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Both of your scriptural reference do not support your POV.
     
  12. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, its really flowing with milk and honey!! All the pics I ever see reveal a pretty barren landscape. Isn't that an indicator that their time is past....everything else is the Christian world's invention.
     
  13. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

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    Somehow you have missed these prophesies: Obviously yet to be fulfilled.
    Ezekiel 36:8 Prophesy over the hills and valleys of Israel: You Land of Israel, grow your trees and yield fruit, for My people, as their homecoming is near.

    Isaiah 29:17 In a very short time Lebanon will return to garden land. [After the Lord's Day of wrath, that will desolate the entire Middle East area.]

    Amos 9:13 A time is coming, says the Lord, when the Land will be bountiful again.

    Zechariah 8:11-12 The Lord says: I do not feel the same towards the remnant of this people as I did in former days. Now, they will sow in safety, the vine will yield its fruit and the soil it’s produce, for the sky will give rain in due season.

    Jeremiah 33:12-13 In the Land, there will once more be heard sounds of joy and gladness. My people will offer praise and thanksgiving in the House of the Lord. In this place and in all the towns, now ruined and devoid of both people and animals, there will once more be flocks of sheep and people, in all of the Land of Israel.

    Joel 2:21-24 Earth: fear not, but rejoice and be glad, for the pastures will be green and the trees will grow, the fig and vine will bear harvest. People of Zion, rejoice, the Lord provides food by sending rain in season, as in days of old. The threshing floors will be heaped with grain and the vats will overflow with new wine.

    Isaiah 35:6b-7 Water will spring up in the desert, the thirsty Land will bubble with water and the mirage will become a lake. Grass will grow over all the country.

    Isaiah 66:12-14 The Lord says: I shall make prosperity flow over My people like a river, I shall comfort them and they will flourish like the grass in springtime. The Lord will make His power known among His servants and His fury to His enemies.

    I suggest that you confine yourself to things you know about. Preterism is a false belief.
     
  14. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Just as I thought you'd do, push a bunch of meaningless words with a rebuttal that doesn't give Scripture evidence for your doctrine, and instead of quoting Scripture, you paraphrased it in your own words. My claim is that you do NOT KNOW what Scripture actually states, and you have... to know that first before you can begin to paraphrase God's Word into your own words.
     
  15. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Just as I thought, you have come back claiming because I have not provided a rebuttal filled with scriptural evidence to support my point of view, when your rebuttal above to my post concerned my charge against you for not knowing whether or not your favoured English TRANSLATION has faithfully transmitted the original message context of the source documents from which it was translated.

    It is you dear brother that has to prove to me that you know beyond any doubt that the English translations that you rely on for your foundational doctrine is faithful to the original message content and to demonstrate to me the evidence upon which you use to come to that conclusion concerning the Prophecies of God. I have now formed the view that you do not know whether the English translations have faithfully transmitted to original message content to you.

    When we can both play on the same level playing field then perhaps we can progress this conversation, i.e. we can agree on what the original message in the prophecies was.

    Shalom
     
  16. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    No, I haven't missed them Keraz. I think it's your misappropriation of the scriptures.
    In the new earth, God's Israel; his people from all ages and cultures will inhabit the earth as promised.

    National Israel today is a horror story. They are anything but ambassadors for the Kingdom of God. The geography is anything but a land flowing with milk and honey, in fact, it is a land manifesting the curses God promised if they disobey him.

    You miss the obvious because you misinterpret.
     
  17. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    The true “promise land” is union with Christ....the physical geography of Israel is a transitional object - and frankly, based on all the rocks and dirty and worn out land, it is representing the state of our thirst for Christ nicely. In any case, why cling to a centuries old teddy bear when you can have access to the Father through his Son?
     
  18. Pre-Trib Rapper

    Pre-Trib Rapper Member

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    I respectfully disagree with Keraz who holds to the Replacement Theology doctrine that the Church has replaced Israel which is a post-millennium viewpoint.

    Yes, the Rothschilds and Zionists created the modern day State of Israel BUT God allowed it to fulfill His prophecies. Israelites must be back in the land before the Antichrist executes the Final Solution which God will permit to judge the unrepentant Jews who reject His Son Jesus Christ. Only 1/3 of the Jews in Israel will endure the 7-year Tribulation Period, will believe in Jesus, and will re-populate Earth in the Millennium.
     
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