John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[Ronald David Bruno]

I'm not 100% sure of what you are saying. The issue is Jesus is either the Father or is he not the true God.

Every aspect and understanding about God in the New Testament we get from Jesus, Whom the Bible says is the exact likeness, expression, illumination, represengation of God. The Word (God) became flesh and dwelt among us. Does He dwell in YOU?
Yes or no?
No angel or prophet has ever been given this honor, glory and focus, as the only way, nor have they been worshipped and sought after, with millions of lives changed, with the the spiritual change attributed to the belief in Him. Jesus draws attention to Himself as the source of life and truth. If He wasn't God, He simply would not. All attention would be directed to God, our Father, IF that was the case. And God does require that there be no other gods before Him. He is firm about worship going out to anyone but Him. So why does He allow all the focus to go to His Son? Because His Son is God. In Hebrews 1, the Father tells us that Jesus is above all angels and also calls Him God.
"But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. (Vs. 8)
The Father says that about His Son - but you cannot.
His name is above all other names in heaven and on earth. Every knee will bow to Him when He returns. Will you bow and worship Him?
Yes or no?

 

[ChristisGod]

I like this and wasn't aware of these verses in context. When I study the bible and pass over important doctrine. It's nice to see them presented in context like this. Thanks!

The study of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit has been my passion for the past 40 plus years but specifically the study of the deity and humanity of Christ. It is very interesting to hear what Jesus said below about Scripture and the Holy Spirit. So its easy to see who speaks for God and who does not by their view of Jesus and what the Holy Spirits work is Glorifying the Son. And only God can receive Glory otherwise its idolatry.

Jesus said the OT was about Himself

Luke 24:25-27
25 And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 " Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?" 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.

John 5:39-40
39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Luke 24:44-45
44Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

Jesus said the Holy Spirit will bear witness of HIM

John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:7-9
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me

John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

 

[dev553344]

Jesus used personal pronouns when referring to the Holy Spirit:

"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you. "(John 16:7-15).

The Holy Spirit below does things that only a person can do,

He leads (Matt. 4:1).
He is called God (Acts 5:3-4).
He helps and comforts (John 14:16, 16:7).
He convicts of sin (John 16:17).
He gives testimony of Jesus (John 15:26).
He teaches, guides and brings to remembrance (John 14:26, 16:13).
He speaks and instructs (Acts 8:29; 10:19; John 16:13).
He hears and speaks (John 16:13, Acts 28:25-27).
He can be lied to and tested (Acts 5:3-4,9).
He sends and gives life (Acts 13:4, John 3:6, Gen 1:3).
He is a witness (Acts 5:32)
He restrains (2 Thess. 2:7).
He prevents (Acts 16:6-7).
The Spirit "said" to Philip and Peter(Acts 8:29, 10:19).
Peter said he was "told" by the Spirit (Acts 11:12).
The Holy Spirit "solemnly testifies" (Acts 20:23).
He made some of the early Christians overseers to shepherd the Church. (Acts 20:28).
He wills (Acts 13:2).
He interprets our prayers (Rom. 8:26).
He knows and communicates (1 Cor. 2:11; Rom. 8:27).
He reveals (Eph. 3:5).
He has a will-He decides, chooses and distributes the Gifts to the church (1 Cor. 12:11).
He can be grieved (Eph. 4:30).

conclusion: one must turn a blind eye to all the biblical truth above to deny the Person and work of the Holy Spirit who is distinct from both the Father and the Son.

hope this helps !!!

It makes sense I suppose to that Jesus has a Holy Spirit as fully man, to be like us and overcome all sin, be crucified and arise. He is also God. I'm going to stop there I think so I don't imagine my own god and get anything wrong. But it would make sense that he has a spirit personage.?

 

[ScottA]

That just doesn't explain away John 14:21-23, which is the New Testament take on it - by the way.

So, all of the OT makes clear that God is One, you have agreed.

Then, Jesus tells us in John 14:21 that He will manifest Himself to those who believe and obey as the Holy Spirit.

When asked to elaborate/clarify, Jesus states that He AND THE FATHER will come and make their home with that person - as the Holy Spirit (how else can they come to live with us but as the Spirit?) - while never mentioning, nor even slightly implying, any 3rd individual.

Nobody, that is even taking the time to address this verse in any way, is explaining away the teaching that Jesus is giving here that He IS the Father, and that they - together - are the Holy Spirit.

NOT two, nor three, different people.

Okay. But it's both (or all Three).

What I was explaining before, saying that One unpacked is Three, and repacked is One...is just how God has presented Himself over times. It would be like saying "I am the Right Hand of God, and whoever loves the Right Hand will be loved by the whole Being of God." But for times and explanation and revelation of Himself, He has used personal terms of character according to the understanding of elementary men who's minds can barely comprehend what is elementary.

Anyway, it would appear you are putting it all together: The would-be Three are One (though presented as Two or Three). "By the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established." Deuteronomy 19:15

 

[PinSeeker]

What should be said and understood is that all things of God are spirit-discerned; they cannot be discerned in and of oneself without the Spirit of God, His Holy Spirit. To put it simply, if one does not have the Spirit, the third Person of the triune Jehovah God, he/she will not understand, but rather dismiss these things as folly. Any and all human logic and explanation will not overcome that obstacle (absent the presence of the Holy Spirit in the hearer); such a person is spiritually dead, still in the state that Adam and Eve were found in after having partaken of the forbidden fruit, so you might as well be talking to a stone. This is what the writer of Ecclesiastes is saying when he says, "the dead know nothing" (9:5). As Paul says:

"...as it is written, 'What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him' ~ these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit Who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Rich R]

The Word was WITH God.

So we see two being described here.

1- The Word
2-God

The Word was with God, so there is a distinction between the Word and God in John 1:1 b

John 1:1a- in the beginning was the Word
John 1:1b- and the Word was with God
John 1:1c- and the Word was God.

So your OP has already failed and you have read into the passage ( EISEGESIS ) your own personal views.

It's my personal view that Jesus himself said the Father is the one God in John 18:3? It's also my personal view that Paul said the Father is the true God in 1 Cor 8:6? Sorry, but I didn't write the scriptures. If these verses upset your view of Jesus being God, talk to God. He's the one who wrote both John 17:3 and 1 Cor 8:6.

 

[ChristisGod]

It's my personal view that Jesus himself said the Father is the one God in John 18:3? It's also my personal view that Paul said the Father is the true God in 1 Cor 8:6? Sorry, but I didn't write the scriptures. If these verses upset your view of Jesus being God, talk to God. He's the one who wrote both John 17:3 and 1 Cor 8:6.

Yes your “ personal view “ not the biblical view which I provided . You are reading scripture through your “ personal “ views . That is called eisegesis. Exegesis on the other hand does not isolate verses from the rest of the Bible to form a belief / doctrine .

hope this helps !!!

 

[GEN2REV]

John 14:23 uses the pronouns "we" and "our" which normally means two people. Why does it mean one person here?

Because you're ignoring the first verse of that passage that I have repeatedly posted.

John 14:21 Jesus makes it clear that HE (Jesus Christ ALONE) will manifest Himself to those who have and obey the Commandments. When asked to clarify, THEN He elaborates in John 14:23 the teaching/understanding that He AND THE FATHER are included in HIM (Jesus) coming to live with us. Seriously, you have to strain to not see the Truth that this passage is presenting.

I trust you know Jesus also said we are all one in he and his Father. John 17:21, Maybe being "one" shouldn't be taken literally?

No, on the contrary. It absolutely IS literal; and the best way to understand how that's possible is WITH John 14:21-23.

The ONE Spirit that IS Jesus Christ AND the Father Romans 8:9 lives in each and every one of us who HAVE the Holy Spirit.

It's all right there and it ALL makes sense in light of the Scripture that explains it.

 

[Enoch111]

The entire beginning of John is telling about Jesus. He calls Him the word, then calls Him the light, then says John the Baptist was sent to testify concerning Him.

The first thing that should stand out for any honest person is that Jesus is GOD THE WORD. Everything else flows from that. So Non-Trinitarians are basically dishonest.

 

[GEN2REV]

the Holy Spirit ... is distinct from both the Father and the Son.

Do you still maintain that position when you read Romans 8:9-11?

This passage first calls it the Spirit of God, then clarifies it as the Spirit of Christ, then outright identifies it as Christ in verse 10, then (in an earth-shattering revelation) identifies the Spirit of the Father (of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead) as that very same Spirit.

How can you consider that passage and hold to the above statement?

What about John 14:21-23? How do you reconcile that passage with your statement above?

 

[ChristisGod]

Do you still maintain that position when you read Romans 8:9-11?

This passage first calls it the Spirit of God, then clarifies it as the Spirit of Christ, then outright identifies it as Christ in verse 10, then (in an earth-shattering revelation) identifies the Spirit of the Father (of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead) as that very same Spirit.

How can you consider that passage and hold to the above statement?

What about John 14:21-23? How do you reconcile that passage with your statement above?

Since God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit saying the spirit of God , the spirit of Christ and the spirit are synonymous terms describing the One God, One Spirit, One Lord etc…

 

[Nancy]

Are we or are we not to WORSHIP Jesus? Or, only The Father?

 

[APAK]

This makes a solid case for Jesus in 1 John 5:20 as the True God and Eternal Life.

1 John 5:20
20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true — even in his Son Jesus Christ. He(Jesus) is the true God and eternal life.

9 Biblical and Theological Reasons why Jesus is the True God and Eternal Life in 1 John 5:20

1st- Jesus is called God in the writings of John(1:1,20:28,1 John 5:20)

Christophany, you again have covered much scripture without showing any substance and support for what I believe you are promoting, that the man Jesus, eventhough a deity today, suddenly usurped his Father, God Almighty.

When was the last time you really reviewed 1 John 5:20 for example. Explain in context what the verse is all about, really all about, and keep the red ink stamp 'Jesus = God' far off the table this time.

(1Jn 5:20)
(KJV) And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Has it something to do with the fact that the Son of God have given us an understanding of his Father, the one true God, as we are in Christ. This is (being or having) eternal life and the true God, the Father with us through his Son? Do not ignorantly alter the meaning of scripture and switch roles and make the Son, God the Father and who knows who is now the Father after this switch is made?!

When the last statement says '...This is the true God, and eternal life.' it is speaking to God the Father not his son, else the rest of the verse will not make any sense at all.

Just two verses back 18 and 19,
(1Jn 5:18) We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
(1Jn 5:19) And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

It reaffirms what I just said, we are born of God because God, the Father, OF Jesus keeps us secure, in HIS spirit, and not just his Father's Holy Spirit. Yes both spirits are present within a believers spirit for sure. We still have to keep them separated and distinguishable because they are different. One is the spirit of the Son, who is a living human immortal spirit (a deity today) and the other, the one and only Holy Divine Spirit of God the Father.

Then back to verse 13
(1Jn 5:13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

We have eternal life because of the Father bringing his Son into the world, and our deep believe in his Son, of the only God. They are different spirits. The only God creator is the Father of all spirits including ours and his son, Jesus.

When Christ speaks to being the truth and the life, he is speaking not as being some mystically high spirit on par with his Father as God. He is plainly saying that HE is the ONLY way/path/gate to both the truth and eternal life/immortality for human kind. We also know that without his Father, his only God, nothing of the works of his Son would be possible, and he could never become our human savior. All glory goes to God, the Father ultimately, as he is the true life and truth as shown through his Son. We believe in who he is, and his Son can never usurp and become God, his own Father.

 

[GEN2REV]

Since God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit saying the spirit of God , the spirit of Christ and the spirit are synonymous terms describing the One God, One Spirit, One Lord etc…

So Jesus is the one who raised Jesus from the dead.

And you're ok with that?

 

[ScottA]

So Jesus is the one who raised Jesus from the dead.

And you're ok with that?

God raised up His Right Arm.

“Ladies and gentlemen: the story you are about to hear is true. Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent.”

 

[user]

Okay you don't like "wrapped up", it's just a phrase people use to summarize, discribing totality, completeness, wholeness.

But your still going by the premise of three persons.

The following are three different accounts of the very same subject, which shows that the ONE ETERNAL Spirit functions as Father, Son AND Holy Ghost but are not three persons...


Matthew 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
[18] And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
[19] But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
[20] For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
[10] And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
[11] But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
[13] And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
[14] Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
[15] For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

 

[GEN2REV]

God raised up His Right Arm.

Funny you say that because that is symbolically what Jesus is to the Father. He is not physically/literally seated at His right arm, He IS His right arm of power.

Because they are the same person and Jesus, the man, is the accomplishment of the Father in the flesh.

 

[GEN2REV]

But your still going by the premise of three persons.

The following are three different accounts of the very same subject, which shows that the ONE ETERNAL Spirit functions as Father, Son AND Holy Ghost but are not three persons...


Matthew 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
[18] And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
[19] But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
[20] For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
[10] And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
[11] But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
[13] And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
[14] Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
[15] For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Yes.

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are just THREE of MANY operations of God.

The Bible tells us there are MANY, NOT just three.

"Now there are many gifts, but the same Spirit (God).
And there are many administrations, but the same LORD.
And there are many operations, but it is THE SAME GOD that worketh all ..."
1 Corinthians 12:4-6

 

[Rich R]

He is not the Father ( sabellianism/ modalism herersy) and He is the True God 1 John 5:20- Christianity

When we look at the overwhelming evidence from Johns writings which I will show below we can see a much different picture from the Apostle John regarding Christs identity as the true God and Eternal Life. Also we see Christs own words which are in complete agreement with Johns conclusion in 1 John 5:20 identifying Jesus as the true God and Eternal Life. So here we go!


Jesus is eternal life, He is life. We see this over and over again in the Apostle Johns writings. In Him was LIFE and that LIFE was the light of man. Life of the world, the Bread of LIFE,My words are spirit and they are LIFE, I AM the way,the truth and the LIFE,The LIFE was manifested and we proclaim to you the ETERNAL Life which was with the Father, and was manifested to us- The Prologue of 1st John. So we see that when John uses the phrase True God and Eternal Life together in 1 John 5:20 that He is referring to Christ as the closest antecedent making Him the True God and Eternal Life.


Also we see that when we search the GNT that Eternal Life is never used of the Father without the Son but we see that Eternal Life is used over and over with Jesus where the Father is never mentioned. This makes a solid case for Jesus in 1 John 5:20 as the True God and Eternal Life.


1 John 5:20
20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true — even in his Son Jesus Christ. He(Jesus) is the true God and eternal life.

On behalf of seeing χριστος as the antecedent are the following arguments: (1) Although it is true that αληθινος θεος is not elsewhere referred to Christ, αληθεια is, and is so in Johannine literature (John 14:6).

29 Winer-Moulton, 195.

Further, αληθινος θεος is not a "constant.. epithet" as Winer supposes, being found only in John 17:3 and 1 John 5:20! (2) Christ is also said to be ζωη in John's writings John 11:25; 14:6; 1 John 1:1-2), an epithet nowhere else used of the Father. (3) The demonstrative pronoun, ουτος, in the Gospel and Epistles of John seems to be used in a theologically rich manner.30 Specifically, of the approximately seventy instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as forty- four of them (almost two-thirds of the instances) refer to the Son. Of the remainder, most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.31 What is most significant is that never is the Father the referent.For what it is worth, this datum increases the probability that ιησου χριστω is the antecedent in 1 John 5:20. 32 The issue cannot be decided on grammar alone. But suffice it to say here that there are no grammatical reasons for denying that αληθινος θεος is descriptive of Jesus Christ.

9 Biblical and Theological Reasons why Jesus is the True God and Eternal Life in 1 John 5:20

1st- Jesus is called God in the writings of John(1:1,20:28,1 John 5:20)

2nd- Jesus is called Eternal Life over and over again in Johns writings

3rd- John opens up his epistle with the Eternal life(Jesus) that was with the Father in the beginning and was manifest to the disciples(1 John 1:1-5)

4th- John ends his epistle with Jesus who is eternal life and only is eternal life found in Him who is the true God.

5th- never is eternal life used of the Father alone. When the Father is included the Son is always mentioned together with the Father making them equal. Equality with the Father was not something Jesus needed to grasp at as He already possessed complete Deity as God.(Phil 2, Col 2:9)

6th- John would not leave his readers with any ambiguity warning them to guard themselves from idols(5:21) So this would be clear his reference was to those who reject Jesus as the true God. They are the idoloters and antichrists John writes of in his epistles.

7th- [In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3 . . . ) refer to the Son. Of the remainder, most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.31 What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent.FWIW, this datum increases the probability that ιησου χριστω IS the antecedent in 1 John 5:20. Wallace.

8th-Jesus is also the True God and the True one in 1 John. Jesus is the true light which brings light to all men (John 1:9) Jesus is the truth (John 14:6)Jesus is the true vine (John 15:1). Jesus is the true witness of God (John 18:37) He who is true (Revelation 3:7) Jesus is the faithful and true witness (Revelation 3:14)Jesus is Lord God Almighty, Just and true are your ways(Revelation 15:3) Jesus is faithful and true(Revelation 19:11).

9th -The case for οὗτός referring to Jesus is based on
1) Lexical choice. The phrase καὶ ἐσμὲν ἐν τῷ ἀληθινῷ being superfluous; "καὶ ἐσμὲν ἐν αὐτῷ" would have
- a) been more natural, and
- b) been clearer in pointing to the Father rather than the Son
2) Discourse analysis. The Son is the most prominent subject, being the subject of the end of the previous pericope, the beginning of this pericope, and the beginning of v.20.
But the most powerful piece of data is based on
3) Syntax. There was no connector between καὶ ἐσμὲν ἐν τῷ ἀληθινῷ and ἐν τῷ υἱῷ αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦ Χριστῷ. A simple καὶ would have sealed the deal.


So the most logical conclusion is that it refers to Jesus as the true God. Not only is this Wallace's conclusion from Johns usage of outos but He is the closest antecedent (most times in the GNT this principal holds true). Eternal Life is never used of the Father alone in John’s writings and only a couple of times does John include the Father with the Son regarding eternal life. John opens up his epistles describing the "eternal life" who was with the Father in the beginning and then ends his epistle with eternal life identifying Jesus as the true God and eternal life. John then says this in the last verse:

1 John 5:21-Guard yourselves from idols

Now why would he leave any ambiguity in verse 20 as to the identity of the true God and eternal life then turn around commanding them to protect themselves from idolatry ? It make absolutely no sense whatsoever unless John is identifying Jesus as the true God and refuting the Gnostics of his day who denied the Incarnation.

hope this helps !!!

I know all those verses. Most say nothing about Jesus being God. However, if taken with a liberal amount of liberty in word meaning and grammar, they could be squeezed into saying Jesus is God, but then they would be contradicting what Jesus said in John 17:3 and what Paul said in 1 Cor 18:6. We also see in John 20:17 that Jesus has the same God as we all have. Romans 15:16 also says Jesus has a God as does most of Paul's Letters in the salutation. They all say something like, "...the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ..." We also have verses that say God knew things Jesus didn't know in Matt 24:36. In John 5:30 we see Jesus talking about his will as opposed to his Father's will. In 1 Cor 11:3 we see that God is the head of Jesus, hence they are not equal. John 14:28 says God is greater than Jesus, again indicating an inequality. In 1 Cor 15:28 we see a clear statement that Jesus will be subject to God in the new heavens and new earth.

All of these verses are crystal clear. Why would you want to ignore them and accept the "Word" in John 1 as meaning Jesus? The first chapter of John is used to prove the trinity by saying that the "Word" is Jesus, when it really doesn't say that, particularly when doing so caused the many contradictions as I noted above as well as many others.

Saying the "Word" is Jesus is not enough to prove it actually is "Jesus." The fact is such an assumption cause the contradictions I mentioned above. The word "Jesus" is not in John 1:1, not even in John 1:14. Both verses use the word "word" (logos in Greek). If we find out what the "Word" really is, perhaps the contradictions would vanish. I can tell you it actually does. If we accept Jesus as the son of God, there are no problems. The problems and contradiction arise when we call him the non-scirptural, "God the Son."

Scholars,even many trinitarian scholars, are divided on what 1 John 5:20 says.

1 John 5:20,

And we know that the Son - of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true— in His - Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.​

If we accept Jesus as being, "Him who is true" we make Jesus into the Father since it is the Father who is the only true God (John 17:3 and 1 Cor 8:6).

Bottom line, if all the verses you quoted mean Jesus is God, and we know he is not the Father who is the true God, then both Jesus and Paul were either misinformed or just lied outright in declaring the Father to be the only true God.

Two (of many) verses that are absolutely mangled by Trinitarians:

John 1:1,

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
​

This is changed into,

In the beginning was the Jesus, and the Jesus was with God, and the Jesus was God.​

John 20:31,

But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​

This is changed into,

But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​

 

[PinSeeker]

The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are just THREE of MANY operations of God.

No, the Bible tells us ~ Jesus, specifically, in John 14 ~ that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost/Spirit are the three Persons of the one true (triune) Jehovah. And these three Persons have different roles:

1. The Father orders all things and working all things together for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose
2. The Son accomplishing the redemption of the Father's elect and now sitting at the right hand of the Father and making intercession for us, and in the future executing the final Judgment
3. The Holy Spirit working in us initially to give us new birth and through the course of our lives so that we will and work according to the Father's pleasure

Together, They bring glory to God (all three Persons of Him) and achieve the salvation of a chosen people.

The Bible tells us there are MANY, NOT just three.

"Now there are many gifts, but the same Spirit (God).
And there are many administrations, but the same LORD.
And there are many operations, but it is THE SAME GOD that worketh all ..."1 Corinthians 12:4-6

1 Corinthians 12, written by Paul, GEN2REV, like Romans 12, also written by Paul, is all about spiritual gifts manifested in Christians. All are gifts of the Spirit, apportioned to each according to the will of the Father and for the common good. Here's the whole passage:

"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these (gifts) are empowered by one and the same Spirit, Who apportions to each one individually as He (the Father) wills. [1 Corinthians 12:4-11]

So there are many (not just three) gifts of the Spirit given by God to men and women who follow Christ and know Him as their Lord and Savior.

No offense intended, but "the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are just THREE of MANY operations of God..." My goodness. I mean, maybe that's just a clumsy way of stating that the three Persons (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) have different functions but work together in sovereign wisdom, power, and love to achieve the salvation of a chosen people, the Father electing, the Son fulfilling the Father's will by redeeming, the Spirit executing the purpose of Father and Son by renewing. and if so, then I agree...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Rich R]

Yes your “ personal view “ not the biblical view which I provided . You are reading scripture through your “ personal “ views . That is called eisegesis. Exegesis on the other hand does not isolate verses from the rest of the Bible to form a belief / doctrine .

hope this helps !!!

John 17:3,

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
​

Who is the "thee" that is the only true God? Who was Jesus talking to when he said this?

John 17:1,

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:​

So I am saying that Jesus was not talking to himself, but to his Father when he called Him the only true God. Jesus said that his Father is the only true God. How is that my "personal" view? Isn't that just what the verse says? Where's the eisegesis there?

1 Cor 8:6,

But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.​

I said that Paul said that the one God is the Father. How is that my "personal" view? Where's the eisegesis there?

You are saying that Jesus is God, thereby making him the Father. With all due respect, I'd say that's about eisegesis as eisegesis ever gets!