John 3 Jesus discussion with Nicodemus

[Eternally Grateful]

To be as Holy as God, you have to Spiritually become God's very righteousness.

You can't do that by works, or by trying to be like Jesus, as that is just self effort.

So, to be as Holy as God, .. God has to make you as Holy as Himself.

That is why God gives the BELIEVER...... "the Gift of Righteousness".

That's our Salvation.

God has recreated us Spiritually, as a "new Creation"< that has eternally become..

"the RIGHTEOUSNESS.....OF GOD...... In Christ"

That is to be "born again".

My friend,

You have misunderstood him. He quoted another use that said that. he even asked her what she meant

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I was asking about this statement

Jesus saw that he man was living a double life which caused his problems. He would have been constantly watching his tongue amongst the other Jews and even more so when he was a leader. What a terrible life!

With all due respect how many of us do the same? Consider church on Sunday dressed in the finest clothes and watching our tongue and behavior. Then the other days of the week …not so much. But also in relationships where we may be around friends who are “Christian” and behave one way, yet then among those who are not “Christian” behaving another way. If we say or claim to never change our demeanor around those we value and admire and in the same way act differently around those we don’t admire or value…we may be lying to ourselves. People tones of speech even changes relatable to who they are with and in the company of. Sometimes the presence of tone instantly changes. Would we speak to those members while at church, the same we speak to those members of our family behind closed doors. How does any escape having respect of persons? You suggested “what a terrible life”. But…just an opinion…it doesn’t appear to be a terrible life. Sometimes called I think rubbing elbows with the finest.
rub elbows

phrase of rub

1. associate or come into contact with another person.
   "he rubbed elbows with TV stars at the party"

 

[Azim]

So the quote of yours he posted, that i quoted, is not your quote?

This is not your exact quote? ?????????????????????

Azim said:

""""I wonder if people view a second BORN AGAIN experience""""

Here is the original post I was replying to:

If you don't mind, I can explain it best according to Orthodox theology, that the walk of the believer is in three stages:

1) Purification: when one has already come to Christ for forgiveness, and the Holy Spirit works on them to convince them that their state does not fill that desire for God within which is directly linked to their sins remaining and they need a pure heart.

2) Illumination: whereby a second work of grace occurs and the person is born again in the Spirit. The west calls this entire sanctification but misses the last stage.

3) Theosis: whereby the Lord grants the gift of sharing in the perfection of God whenever He desires and it is not a stable state for a period of training.

It got lost in the transfer to the west of Greek to Latin then English.

Yes there are loads of scriptures that can be quoted to back it up. The early church would not have included the scriptures that back it up otherwise.

It would take me a while to do an in depth Bible study.

Here is my original full reply, to the above post, which marks partially quoted. Hopefully you now can see the context of what I was replying about.

I have never heard of being born twice in the spirit. I have no reason to doubt you on that. It did make me think of something. When I was born again in 2019, I returned back to my home church later that year to serve there again. When I shared with the pastor about my experience, he thought it was just a powerful filling of the spirit, and not being born again, lol. He probably assumed I had already been born again long before, along with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Though, my experience would say otherwise. However, I wonder if people view a second born again experience as a powerful filling of the spirit instead?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

With all due respect how many of us do the same? Consider church on Sunday dressed in the finest clothes and watching our tongue and behavior. Then the other days of the week …not so much. But also in relationships where we may be around friends who are “Christian” and behave one way, yet then among those who are not “Christian” behaving another way. If we say or claim to never change our demeanor around those we value and admire and in the same way act a differently around those we don’t admire or value…we may lie to ourselves. People tones of speech even changes relatable to who they are with and in the company of. Would we speak to those members while at church, the same we speak to those members of our family behind closed doors. How does any escape having respect of persons?

I agree

but to assume that was what Jesus saw. and why he came I think is to see something that is not in the passage

we need born again because we are dead.

because we are dead, we do those things..

thats why we need risen..

 

[Behold]

My friend,

You have misunderstood him. He quoted another use that said that. he even asked her what she meant

I responded to this....

Hepzibah said:
So how do we walk as Jesus walked and what does be ye holy as I am holy mean?

 

[Behold]

With all due respect how many of us do the same? Consider church on Sunday dressed in the finest clothes and watching our tongue and behavior. Then the other days of the week …not so much.

Thats a good question..

Another good one is... How many Pastors, Popes, and similar do the same???

 

[amadeus]

Yes he can.

Its his ministry, as The devil is the Father of Lies.

Listen my Brother... if the Devil can't deceive a Christian.. then why are there 45,000 Denominations in the world, that all disagree , theologically, ............ = as that is why there are 45,000.

Why are cult of mary member on this forum, teaching that water saves you, that water washed your sin away, as if the Cross of Christ is not needed. ???

Also, more specifically.... why is there no peace, no "oneness" on a "christian" forum?

Its because some are not born again, who are teaching the bible, and some are "fallen from Grace", deceived by the Devil, who are teaching the bible, and some are not that one.
That is why a "christian" forum is a mad house of people teaching what they've been taught, by a cult, vs, a few who are not deceived.

So, that is literally truth fighting error, everyday, on a Forum, and in the world.

We are told by Paul to "examine our own faith, because it can become broken and "in the flesh".

Jude tells us to contend for the real faith, because there is so much FAKE theology, cult theology that is always trying to shut out Truth, and subvert real faith in a believer.

Very simply people go astray because even the sincere ones who have the Holy Spirit too often take the reins in their own teeth instead of always allowing the Holy Spirit to lead the way. Without the Holy Spirit leading and/or directing, Jeremiah's words still apply:

Jer 10:23

O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

 

[Behold]

Here is the original post I was replying to:


Here is my original full reply, to the above post, which marks partially quoted. Hopefully you now can see the context of what I was replying about.

Thank you for sharing that..

Now, what i did, was quote Brother Mark's post.

This one..
So, who wrote those words that i quoted.

These...

Azim said:

""""I wonder if people view a second BORN AGAIN experience""""

 

[Ritajanice]

Thats a good question..

Another good one is... How many Pastors, Popes, and similar do the same???

When I was on this forum yesterday, my tongue ran away with me....afterwards I felt more than “ dreadful”,.why do you think that was?

 

[Behold]

Very simply people go astray because even the sincere ones who have the Holy Spirit too often take the reins in their own teeth instead of always allowing the Holy Spirit to lead the way. Without the Holy Spirit leading and/or directing, Jeremiah's words still apply:

Jer 10:23

O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Notice this...

The Devil causes his owned, to create "christian" forums that do nothing but indoctrinate you, into their particular cult theology.

He caused His owned to start a new denomination, or to created a "new" bible" or to start a TV ministry.

He is getting his LUKE 11:35 word out, just like God is sending those who are not deceived, to preach and teach the word.

 

[Behold]

When I was on this forum yesterday, my tongue ran away with me....afterwards I felt more than “ dreadful”,.why do you think that was?

Its because you have set a very high personal standard of accountability for yourself, and you felt you didnt meet it, in that instance.

"guilt trip"..

Here is the cure for that, every time..

"There is NOW = NO CONDEMNATION (guilt trips) to those who are IN Christ, and called according to His Purpose"

You are THAT ONE...... NOW... .and Forever.

So, Rest in God's Grace.

 

[marks]

Surely the only time we can receive the fullness of God....is to fully surrender to his will?

Die to flesh?...will this ever happen in this lifetime?

Online source.

To be filled with the fullness of God is to be conscious of and yielded to God's presence, strength, care for others, spiritual authority, moral excellence and character(holiness, righteousness, love). God wants us to be filled with his fullness both individually and collectively, as the Church of Christ



I think we have a long way to go..LOL

I believe the Bible teaches us that in Christ we have already died to our flesh, and to sin, and to the Law. I think it also teaches us that God does two different things to bring us into holy living.

One of those is the renewing of our minds, as He works in us to retrain our minds to think in the new way of Christ, and no longer in the flesh way. I see this getting into the biology of the brain as we are forming new neural pathways according to righteousness, and letting die the old neural pathways of our former practice of sin.

Sometimes these can be deeply ingrained, even built into the structure of our brains. But God is the Great Healer. @Hepzibah speaks of Theosis, this being the healing of our soul, psuche, so that it no longer wars against our spirit, and we can do the things we want, that being righteousness.

I think this Theosis describes this renewing of the mind, and that when God, as He seems to do in some people's lives, does a quick work, this is mistaken as a 2nd benefit, some would say the "latter rain", a second Spirit baptism. I think this is the same work God does in all His children, and in as many different ways as He has children.

In my life I saw where He gave me this Theosis, a healing of my mind/emotions, and I experienced that for a number of weeks. And then He withdrew it, and instructed me to walk by faith.

The other thing that God does is to train us to walk in the Spirit. To my understanding walking in the Spirit is not a gradual process of growth, but is an entrance into the right life. I believe that when we walk in the Spirit, we have God's love for others, we have His patience, and His faithfulness, and His self control, and His joyfulness, and so on. I believe that we walk in the Spirit by faith, trusting that in Jesus we are truly and fully reconciled to God, that this allows us to open ourselves to God, to stop hiding from Him, and to receive from Him the power to do His will.

I think that as we walk in the Spirit, this causes the renewing of our minds, as our new thoughts and actions will be rewriting our brains. As our minds are renewed, they don't fight us as much. As we walk in the Spirit, we transcend our flesh. If we are not walking in the Spirit, God still trains us, and we still seek Him, and find Him.

Let our faith be increased, that we may walk in His Spirit and power!

Much love!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Does not Scripture show us we are saved from sins penalty, which is bondage to death? All mankind, even when the Holy Spirit is in us still on occasion choose to sin. We shall not be free from sins until we are no longer clothed in bodies destined to death and corruption. Christ came to set us free from this bondage to corruption and death for whosoever believes in Him and is born again of His Spirit.

Amen.
The penalty of sin is death, Ez.18, and will be required at judgement.

By Jesus' D,B, and R we are no longer under the power or dominance of sin.
Romans 6:12-14
For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace."
Sin's power is not merely making bad choices or doing things we know we shouldn't. It is as if an evil power has invaded the territory of each person's spirit and taken control, "sold into slavery under sin," as Paul puts it (Rom. 7:14).

To eradicate means destroy completely; this does NOT happen in a believer's life for we all have a free will to choose.
A/E chose to believe the serpent, above " what God said".We ALL are faced with the temptations of satan in his desire to destroy our belief in the sovereign God.
1 Peter 5:8 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour."
He doesn't seek out the unbelieving for they have their condemnation in their unbelief!

This is the believer's hope, the anointing power of the Holy Spirit over sin in our life.
And because we belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed us from the power of sin that leads to death." Sin no longer has to have dominion over us because of this POWER given to us by the Holy Spirit!

 

[Azim]

Thank you for sharing that..

Now, what i did, was quote Brother Mark's post.

This one..
So, who wrote those words that i quoted.

These...

Azim said:

""""I wonder if people view a second BORN AGAIN experience""""

Yes, I did write those obviously. And the original post also starts out with myself stating "I have never heard of being born twice in the spirit.". I'm trying to understand what you're coming after me about exactly. On reflection, maybe I could of written that last full sentence, which you keeping bringing up partially, in a better way. As if you read the entire last sentence, and not just a part of it, you will see that sentence is a question. I never heard the term of "second born again experience" until this morning, when the other member posted about it. So if you would like to answer the question in full, I would be interested in hearing you. I've never seen it mentioned in the bible myself. So can't put any weight on it as far as scripture goes. :)

 

[amadeus]

Notice this...

The Devil causes his owned, to create "christian" forums that do nothing but indoctrinate you, into their particular cult theology.

He caused His owned to start a new denomination, or to created a "new" bible" or to start a TV ministry.

He is getting his LUKE 11:35 word out, just like God is sending those who are not deceived, to preach and teach the word.

Anyone who lives in these United States or in any nation has seen and is seeing the devil at work in many places. Because he is there does not mean that a person filled with the Holy Spirit can be forced to follow his lead or join his crowd. What are we seeking first?

Mt 6:33

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. All what things? How about everything that God knows that we need!

 

[Behold]

In my life I saw where He gave me this Theosis, a healing of my mind/emotions,

One of the very best post's ive seen you share, was the one where you talked about becoming a believer, and then departing for a while, and then, being restored to the walk...

This type of Post, does so much spiritual good for people, because so many have had that happen, and are now stuck in...>"i guess im not a christian anymore"

"I guess i committed the unpardonable sin".

"I guess that God is still very angry with me"

"i guess that God can't ever use me now"..

"I guess my dead faith back then, proves im going to hell".

So, its good when a believer shows/reveals the goodness of God, vs, putting performance anxiety and "self saving" as the yoke of bondage on believers.

Thank GOD, that God is the author of Eternal Salvation, and thank GOD, that He is the author of the 200th "2nd chance" to get it right.

God never gives up on us, and we need to never give up on us, also..

 

[Behold]

Yes, I did write those obviously.

Yes.

So, we know that we can't be born again, again.
We can't be saved more than once.

And when you find someone who is "sinning and confessing", to try to be "re-saved" or "re-forgiven" or "re-born again".... then you've found someone who does not understand the Cross, yet.

Ive met people who go to the alter of their Church, many times a year= to get "saved again"....Is what they believe.

 

[Ritajanice]

Its because you have set a very high personal standard of accountability for yourself, and you felt you didnt meet it, in that instance.

"guilt trip"..

Here is the cure for that, every time..

"There is NOW = NO CONDEMNATION (guilt trips) to those who are IN Christ, and called according to His Purpose"

You are THAT ONE...... NOW... .and Forever.

So, Rest in God's Grace.

Online source.

To protect God’s magnum opus of diverse harmony, the church herself has a part to play: “Maintain the unity of Spirit in the bond of peace” (Ephesians 4:3). The Spirit unites us in one body, with one call, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one Father (4:4–6). We must not aggravate that work by slander, bitterness, corrupting talk, anger, and lovelessness against one another (Ephesians 4:25–29). We grieve the Spirit, most immediately, when we publish nasty tweets against each other, willfully misunderstand and gratify anger, backbite and gossip, neither seek forgiveness nor extend it.

My words.
I believe I grieved the Holy Spirit yesterday,and that’s why I’ve been feeling dreadful.

Today I feel better, because I haven’t imo, been grieving the Holy Spirit....I haven’t been arguing....another thing I’ve noticed each time I start arguing the feelings get much worse afterwards.

So I’m very aware today as I don’t want to go through that again.

Sorry for going off topic @Eternally Grateful ....I will say no more....on this subject.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

When I was on this forum yesterday, my tongue ran away with me....afterwards I felt more than “ dreadful”,.why do you think that was?

I get you didn’t ask me this question. I can relate though. And I too feel regretful afterwards. As I should regret being provoked to wrath, I think. Because how can you change or decrease what you regret later, unless experiencing “letting my tongue run away with me” will bring regret later. Same as if I stay focused on Christ and not be provoked and my tongue not running away with me…then that gives peace and joy and hope and no regret later.what is that saying about “I don’t want to say something in the heat of the moment that I will regret later.”

 

[marks]

So how do we walk as Jesus walked and what does be ye holy as I am holy mean?

Consider it true that we are now dead to sin and alive to God.

Consider it true that we are reconciled to God through Christ, having nothing to do with our own works whether good or bad, but in Christ alone.

Consider it true that being reconciled in Christ, our reconciliation never changes because He never changes.

Consider it true that you now live personally in God's presence, that He always loves you, and always accepts you, and is always fully committed towards what is good for you. For He has promised, I will never leave you, nor forsake you.

These things describe for me the faith in Christ that results in walking in His Spirit.

Be holy as I am holy, "holy" is "set apart". When God makes someone holy, He is setting them apart for some particular purpose. I think an understanding of this can be seen in,

Ephesians 4:22-25 KJV
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

In this passage, we put off lying, to speak truth. We stop unrighteousness, and do righteousness. The doing of what is right. The person who does what it right, righteous. For we are members one of another. We've been born into the body of Christ, and now we are set apart for the same as was Christ, the sacrificing of ourselves for others.

I welcome anyone's thoughts regarding holiness, I've pondered this myself for a long time. I think when we say God is holy - set apart - this is to say that He never violates His Own nature, He always remains true to Himself, Who He is.

This is the beauty of His Holiness, this wonderful reality about our God. That He is always the loving and kind and all powerful transcendant Being Who has revealed Himself to us in Jesus Christ.

Jesus came to offer Himself to serve others, we are to do the same, and this separation for that purpose is our holiness. If we are serving others out of our faith in Christ, then we are not doing works of flesh, we are busy doing works of faith, as pre-ordained by God, whichever they should be.

Much love!