John 3 Jesus discussion with Nicodemus

[Jack]

you didn't answer the question, in that case would you read it literally? Does being born again for you mean going back into your mother womb?

"And since you reject most of the Bible it's irrelevant proving anything to you."

 

[face2face]

"And since you reject most of the Bible it's irrelevant proving anything to you."

So how do you "interpret" that verse Jack?

 

[Jack]

So how do you "interpret" that verse Jack?So how do you "interpret" that verse Jack?

You're like trying to explain the Bible to a blind, deaf and dumb person. To you, nothing in the Bible means what it says unless you like it. You pick out the parts you like to make up your own personal anti Bible religion. Reading your posts can actually be considered proof that Satan is quite alive and real.

2 Corinthians 11
14 Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,

 

[Ritajanice]

The Bible is absolutely Literal unless the Bible clearly proves it's not.

I think it’s amazing how the Living word of God explains the second birth, which is the spiritual birth....

First birth...from our human mothers womb .

Second birth...the Living spiritual birth...that can only come from the living spirit of God, the Holy Spirit.

Mind blowing Jack, isn’t it?

My testimony and belief.

 

[Ritajanice]

The Bible is absolutely Literal unless the Bible clearly proves it's not.

Absolutely agree...we can count on the true word of God.....Amen!!

 

[face2face]

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Eternal,

Why is the red text so important?

Some believe it's the Spirit which automatically gives you this sight...
Man/Women must be mentally re-born to “see” the Kingdom actively and morally re-born to “enter”

This requires "developing" the mind of the Spirit through the Word and practicing it in life's experiences.

F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

Some believe it's the Spirit which automatically gives you this sight...
Man must be mentally re-born to “see” the Kingdom actively and morally re-born to “enter”

The word of God says, we must be Born Again by the Spirit.

Can you please explain what you mean by morally re- born to enter?....as God’s word doesn’t say that.

Feel free to ask me any questions you like from what I post as well....as we are all learning.

I’m learning how to address members respectfully as well....I let myself down yesterday and lost the plot...new day today to start afresh....Praise God.

 

[Ritajanice]

Some believe it's the Spirit which automatically gives you this sight...
Man/Women must be mentally re-born to “see” the Kingdom actively and morally re-born to “enter”

Another way I see it. @face2face

It’s the Spirit who gives us the sight to see the Kingdom of God.

The Holy Spirit must penetrate the heart/ spirit for us to hear the word ..hence being birthed in / by the Holy Spirit.....then we see into his wonderful Kingdom....with those spiritual eyes..that came from the precious Holy Spirit........hope that helps @face2face

Edit to add...the more I learn of God through his Spirit...the more I’m in AWE of HIM.....I want to know him more and more.....

 

[Hepzibah]

In Greece, there is a period when the blistering sun goes down, between 6 - 8 pm in both summer and winter, that people will don their best attire and go for a stroll with their families having been generally stuck inside during the heat of the day. Then often they will meet up with friends to frequent the many restaurants for the evening meal. That part of the day would be called evening, from what I can gather. Then when they go home it is night time. I am assuming it will/was be the same in Israel. Besides which, Jesus would also be out in the evening like everyone else as this was the socializing time.

So Nicodemus avoided the crowds and came to see Jesus late at night, calling Him Rabi or teacher, showing respect and faith in His teachings. He confessed his faith in Him by saying that he believed He came from God due to the miracles. This man was a covert believer. Jesus may already have known about him.

He had come to Jesus for guidance, obviously. Jesus saw that he man was living a double life which caused his problems. He would have been constantly watching his tongue amongst the other Jews and even more so when he was a leader. What a terrible life!

Jesus had an answer for him: besides being born of water, which I am thinking is the baptism of repentance by John, he must also have the Spirit baptism to end his conflict. Then he would be fully prepared for his destiny if need be - killed by the Jews. Born two times in the spiritual realm, two blessings. This fits perfectly with the theology of the early church. So born-again has a different meaning to that which is ascribed by western commentators.

Nicodemus is venerated by the Orthodox church as a saint and has his feast day. There are also writings about him outside of the canon of scripture which back up what I have said. Later theologies have taken him to be unsaved just because he was still a leader of the Jews and think that Jesus is calling a born again someone who has first come to Christ but this does not fit with reality whereas there is a second work of grace required which Orthodoxy call Illumination.

Nicodemus supplied the aloes for the burial of Jesus obviously being a rich man and we do not know what became of him after that. We have a great lesson to learn by him though.

I do know that most if not all here will disagree with me and please, I do not need convincing of the official view as I used to hold it so no debate thanks. I am merely stating my opinion which is backed up by the way by the early church.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I will break it down.

First, Jesus' use of the word "again" is actually stated by definition in the original language as born "from above." Either way, the idea is that we are already born--just not first from "above" and therefore must also be born "again", as He says, of the "Spirit."

So we are first born below or of the flesh, but in order to enter the kingdom of God we must also be born from above or of the Spirit. Which is not "regeneration" as some would refer to it--because we were not first born of the spirit that we should need to regain it. In fact what is first born of the flesh is made up of the same elements of this [old] world and earth that the scriptures tell us are to be "destroyed with fervent heat and with fire." Thus, to be born "again" or "from above" is rightly called, "new birth"...of which Jesus is the "firstfruits."

What is being referred to here, and why being first born "of water" is also a part, refers to what was first written of in Genesis 1:7: "Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so." Meaning that we are first born of this world and its elements, but then to enter the kingdom of God we must also be born from what is not of this world, but above. Jesus, said it another way as well, saying, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Clearly making the point that the two births are completely different, and there is actually no regeneration or "glorification", nor even salvation of the flesh, but rather a replacement of the flesh with the Spirit. Of which Paul even says, referring to the body of flesh, "not that body."

All of which is written...and yet those who prefer the flesh, will stand in the flesh--even in the holy place, and make their argument for it.

Thank you for your response

concerning regeneration, Our spirit is dead. It must be regenerated.

Pauls calls it the washing and regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

If you look in the greek the word literally means to be reborn, born again, new birth, resurrection from the dead. Using Jesus words here, one must be born again, it makes perfect sense to use the word regeneration

in my view. This is what happens .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You attacked first.

Actually I gave my reason why I disagreed, and agreed to disagree, I did not say anything about you.

do you understand what a discussion looks like?

Yes it does. You refuse to believe the truth. Just like the average pharisee.

And have been completely disrespectful to any opinion but your own in all honesty.

So claim what you like....the truth is printed in EVERY modern translation and in history.

So keep up with what is a contortionist view of scripture that doesn't fit the narrative or the themes of John

this is not what a discussion looks like.. this is just an attack.. or its my way or the highway. I am not doing this in this thread. I was asked to come to another thread to discuss john 3. And i did, and the user who asked me to go did not want to discuss anything, he pushed his view, then said he has no obligation to discuss anything because in effect we were all wrong. So i opened this thread in hopes to discuss.. Since that thread (which mysteriously is no longer here) was not open for discussion by the OP.

if that is what you plan to do here we are finished

 

[Hepzibah]

As was pointed out by Jesus, the flesh and the spirit are different. Born for the second time of the flesh is impossible, so it must be a second birth in the spiritual realm.

 

[Ritajanice]

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Standing on the word of God.

 

[Hepzibah]

I may not have been clear so just in case, I mean that two spiritual births are required not a physical plus a spiritual. That does not make sense to me.

 

[Ritajanice]

Ladies and Gents....quite a few of us were in the flesh yesterday, “ including me”...one thread was closed the other deleted.

Please!....let’s all try and pray that God keeps us discussing in his Spirit.

In Jesus Name...Amen!!

 

[Ritajanice]

I may not have been clear so just in case, I mean that two spiritual births are required not a physical plus a spiritual. That does not make sense to me.

Ok, fair enough...I will delete my response if that’s ok....as 2 Spiritual births don’t make sense to me.

 

[Ritajanice]

I may not have been clear so just in case, I mean that two spiritual births are required not a physical plus a spiritual. That does not make sense to me.

Can you help me understand why we need 2 spiritual births?

And is the 2 Spiritual births in the word of God?...thanks.

 

[Hepzibah]

Can you help me understand why we need 2 spiritual births?

And is the 2 Spiritual births in the word of God?...thanks.

If you don't mind, I can explain it best according to Orthodox theology, that the walk of the believer is in three stages:

1) Purification: when one has already come to Christ for forgiveness, and the Holy Spirit works on them to convince them that their state does not fill that desire for God within which is directly linked to their sins remaining and they need a pure heart.

2) Illumination: whereby a second work of grace occurs and the person is born again in the Spirit. The west calls this entire sanctification but misses the last stage.

3) Theosis: whereby the Lord grants the gift of sharing in the perfection of God whenever He desires and it is not a stable state for a period of training.

It got lost in the transfer to the west of Greek to Latin then English.

Yes there are loads of scriptures that can be quoted to back it up. The early church would not have included the scriptures that back it up otherwise.

It would take me a while to do an in depth Bible study.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Jack out of interest I know you are like Nicodemus here and would question how you would enter back into your mothers womb. Your statement about reading the Bible literally falls over here - am I right?

I am not jack. but I will answer since I have said this also.

How would it fall over?

Did Not Nicodemus ask this literal question to Jesus? should we take what he said symbolically?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

you didn't answer the question, in that case would you read it literally? Does being born again for you mean going back into your mother womb?

did Jesus say this is what it means?

what are you asking? It was nicodemus that asked this question. Not Jesus answer.