Stumpmaster
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He would have said "Verily, verily, I command you to take my words literally."
John 6 Was Jesus speaking literally
- Thread starter nedsk
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Eternally Grateful
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You just proved my point. I have numerous times asked you to respond to all Jesus said even highlighting the commands and the thing given to those who obey what Jesus said and you keep running
You focus on 7 words and run when people question why you refuse to acknowledge everything else Jesus said. Including what he said those who eat flesh and blood will receive. And his answer to those who said it was a hard saying
Then you wonder why people get frustrated trying to talk to you
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
One major issue with your thinking
If Jesus meant it literally. Everyone who ate would get everything Jesus promised
Yet in the Eucharistic mass. No one gets or is assured of anything Jesus promised
Hence Jesus is found a liar who can not keep his promises
Oh course he did. In the eucharist. For 1500 years thats what the only christian church believed and taught but somehow you know better? LMBO
And you want to ignore those 7 words. AMEN AMEN I say to you......There is no reason for anyone to be "shocked" that he has told them to eat his body and drink his blood if he was speaking symbolically.
Ive told you 100 times i always focus on the words of Jesus over a rando on the internet.
Btw it's technically 21 words as Jesus repeats them 3 times. A fourth if you count when he says they are REAL food and REAL drink. So 28 words
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Why would be have said that? He never said, take my words metaphorically. He used parables and analogies and metaphors all the time and never felt a need to clarify he was speaking metaphorically. The people understood exactly what he was saying hence their questions and his response....does this shock you? Why would they be shocked by a metaphor?
Besides verse 55: for my flesh is real food and my blood is real.drink. I guess Jesus doesnt know what the word "real" means huh?
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People like to use verse 63 as a refutation to Jesus speaking literally.
"It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh can achieve nothing."
There's a couple of problems with that. First Jesus says THE flesh not HIS flesh. He is God incarnate how could that flesh not be profitable? Next if flesh profits nothing and Jesus flesh profits nothing than his dying on the cross profits nothing and becomes just another roman execution. Lastly verse 64 is rarely included: "But there are some among you who don't believe." In other words they don't believe Jesus when he says, eat my flesh and drink my blood for my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
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Another point is that for 1500 years the only Christian church in existence was teaching that Jesus was present in the Eucharist. We'll put aside for a moment that Paul said, the person that eats and drinks without discerning the body of the Lord is eat and drinking judgment on themselves .
The church fathers some of them being disciples of the apostles defended the church against all sorts of heresies. In doing so they reaffirmed the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist that lasted for 1500 years. Example below. Notice the year.
Justin Martyr
“For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus” (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).
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Stumpmaster
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The irony is you can't literally answer your own question
Transubstantiation - Wikipedia
This is a sad overview how churches wrestled for 2000 years with the Holy Supper and the literal interpretation of John 6.
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Wikipedia???? Lol.Transubstantiation - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
This is a sad overview how churches wrestled for 2000 years with the Holy Supper and the literal interpretation of John 6.
Look the very earliest days of the church didn't teach the buffoonery that you're peddling here. When will you get that through your head. Show me something from a time prior to the 1500s that supports your heresy.
You certainly can't. The fact is everyone in that event knew exactly what Jesus was saying. You've been led by the nose to buffoonery.
Stumpmaster
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It's an observation nothing more. Three times Jesus says "eat my flesh and drink my blood" and calls it REAL food and drink but you know better.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Jesus would have used the same words.
...Of course the fact the He would have never said it literally--to be clear--goes without saying.
...Of course the fact the He would have never said it literally--to be clear--goes without saying.
NayborBear
Active Member
Christ was speaking spiritually! Not fleshly!
If ya know? Ya know!
If ya don't know? Stay tuned!
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
What Christ did with the bread and wine, is it real? Is it a ritual? I am sad for Christians that do not believe in miracles? In fact can you be a Christian and not believe in miracles. Salvation is a miracle so…?
The Baptism ritual and the Bread and Wine ritual are miracles. What happens if a Christian does not believe they are miracles? Nothing!
The were as they started. How can a person read about Baptism and the Bread and Wine ritual and not get that they are miracles?
What Does the Bible Say About Baptism?
What Does the Bible Say About Communion?
Both are part of salvation and if you do not believe they are real, is your salvation real? Christianity is full of miracles so how can a person be a Christian if they do not believe in miracles?
A lot of people apply Christianity as a social statement. They just want people to believe they believe in God. They don’t go to church and are not active in church activities. They don’t believe in miracles…. biblical or modern. It is really a matter of just going through the motions and that does not get you anywhere.
The Baptism ritual and the Bread and Wine ritual are miracles. What happens if a Christian does not believe they are miracles? Nothing!
The were as they started. How can a person read about Baptism and the Bread and Wine ritual and not get that they are miracles?
What Does the Bible Say About Baptism?
What Does the Bible Say About Communion?
Both are part of salvation and if you do not believe they are real, is your salvation real? Christianity is full of miracles so how can a person be a Christian if they do not believe in miracles?
A lot of people apply Christianity as a social statement. They just want people to believe they believe in God. They don’t go to church and are not active in church activities. They don’t believe in miracles…. biblical or modern. It is really a matter of just going through the motions and that does not get you anywhere.