John Calvin and Calvinism.

[GodsGrace]

wow! Ok let me see where to begin…
1. Calvin and the WCF merely affirmed what the Bible says.

Why don't you post some verses like I do?
Because you state something, does not make it so.
Calvinism is heretical, which is more than unbiblical.
It's GNOSTIC. Which I've explained already.

2. What the early church taught is exactly what calvin taught.

No sir.
The early church taught baptism, obedience, and free will.
I'll be happy to post many statements from the Early Church Fathers.
ITMT, if you have any stating that we do NOT have free will and that GOD chooses who will be saved, please post same because, again,
you're stating this does not make it so.
Augustine came up with the idea of predestination. In the year 400's. AFTER the ECFs.
No ECF believed as you do.

3. Your idea of God is not the Biblical truth. God is just, but vengeance is His.

So you believe God is NOT LOVE (1 John 4:8) NOT MERCIFUL (Hebrews 4:16) and NOT JUST (Rev 20:12-13).

Yes, Calvinism does change the nature of God...as you've just shown.

4. this is the biggie. Im gonna put this as simple as i know how. The majority of mankind will end up in hell. The majority of mankind will be damned. Calvin was right, only His elect, which are few will be saved. Your problem is you dont see hell as just or fair. You are a sinner!!!! We all are!!!! We ALL deserve to burn in hell forever!!! We have sinned against a Holy God, our Creator. It is His mercy, and His glory to save the few.

Agreed.
WHY did Jesus come in the flesh? Why would God leave HIS THRONE IN HEAVEN to come to preach to us creatures....
IF MOST of us are going to hell? AND HE picks who will be saved?

Was it to tell us THE BAD NEWS?
Or was it to teach us HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN, if we so wished ??

Don't you know the story about the birds in the barn?
Of course not...you don't know God.

5. Jesus’ death was only for the elect, not everyone.

Even some Calvinists won't accept that one.
Just quick:
If Adam destroyed man's relationship with God... ALL MEN
then somehow that relationship had to be re-established for... ALL MEN

6. Calvin never made anything up, he merely took the 27 books of the NT and condensed it down to 5 points.

As I've stated before, Calvin did not make up the 5 points.
However, his theology is heretical.

 

[TEXBOW]

God told us all we needed to know to be saved.
This is why the bible exists.
This is why He told each generation until Jesus what they could understand.
Jesus told us all we need and He is the final revelation.
Where does Jesus state that God will pick the few persons that will be saved?
What I read is Jesus telling us HOW to be saved...
which would be wasted words if it were not so.

It is sad that men have fallen into this heresy of Calvinism. They have given false definitions to scripture and have built a false doctrine upon it. For some unfortunately Satan has blinded them. Calvin is their Apostle.

 

[GodsGrace]

Where does "Calvinism" say God is under a law?

Pretty silly question R
God IS HOLY
What does that mean to you?

But let's try
2 Timothy 2:13
13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.


Maybe
Deuteronomy 7:9
9Know therefore that the Lord your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,

Numbers 23:19
God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

Hebrews 10:23
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.


If we cannot trust God...
Who can we trust?
We are worse than the worms that eat the dirt.
We are to be pitied... 1 Cor 15

 

[GodsGrace]

If what Calvin wrote is not "orthodox Christianity", then I am unconcerned. The reason is that orthodox Christianity has plenty of problems with what the Bible says. As I think you do as well.

In respect to the reformation, while I admire Luther, Hus, Calvin and others, I don't always agree with them either. They took a stand, but not everything they believed was right. They clung to as much bad Catholic teaching as they rejected.

Next, you talk about the "character of God". Fine... But according to whom? See, what you are doing is pitting what Calvin said (and he actually has backing by the Bible) vs. Your version of a sweetheart God.

Yes, God is loving and forgiving... He is long suffering. He loved us before we loved him... He's all that stuff!

He is also a jealous God, he is a man of War, he created evil, he totally wiped out the world with a flood, he divorced one of his wives, he said Vengeance was his name, he mockingly laughs at some peoples calamities, he hates some people, killed some people for not doing what he wanted, has enemies and he has killed and wiped out whole nations and called it merciful!

Orthodox Christianity doesn't teach that... Calvin knew it and knew it was in the Bible. It the orthodox who don't acknowledge this. However, everything I have said is true to the Bible.

Calvin realized this. The majority of Calvin's work was commentaries of the Bible where he would analyze every verse. Its not always the best practice, but you cannot say he didn't consider every verse.

You think every verse is to be taken literally?
You believe the earth and everything in it was created in 6 days?
You believe the O.T. was right in every way...although it was written by men...
it was inspired NOT written by the hand of God.
You believe that more than you believe JESUS, God incarnate?

John, who was with Jesus over 3 years stated that God is love...not me.
God is just...He gives to each man what that man deserves.
Do the unchosen deserve to go to hell without a chance of salvation?

But I see that you don't agree with everything, so I'm not sure what you believe.
I do know that our doctrine will not save us, loving God and obeying Him will save us.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is sad that men have fallen into this heresy of Calvinism. They have given false definitions to scripture and have built a false doctrine upon it. For some unfortunately Satan has blinded them. Calvin is their Apostle.

Of course.
And a heresy is just what is not agreed upon by orthodox Christianity...mainline Christianity.
And the reformed are the ONLY "denomination" that believe as they do.

 

[GodsGrace]

View attachment 20092

What you are saying is, if God has the choice of everything.....He came up with one stupid plan of evil and misery.

Great point GH !
Why does God need to blind those that are already born blind??

 

[FHII]

You think every verse is to be taken literally?
You believe the earth and everything in it was created in 6 days?

Goodbye GodsGrace. If you are wondering if I believe your posts are garbage, wonder no more. They are.

 

[Grailhunter]

Goodbye GodsGrace. If you are wondering if I believe your posts are garbage, wonder no more. They are.

I thought you were not Calvin. You sound Calvin. Those women folk should know their place and keep their mouth shut. We Calvinists keep our women submissive and quiet.

 

[FHII]

I thought you were not Calvin. You sound Calvin. Those women folk should know their place and keep their mouth shut. We Calvinists keep our women submissive and quiet.

I am not Calvin, I am not a Calvinist and I do not appreciate your sexist remarks.

I do not condone sexism, racism or anything of that sort. Please do not bother me with such attitudes again. I have absolutely no tolerance for such viewpoints.

 

[Grailhunter]

I am not Calvin, I am not a Calvinist and I do not appreciate your sexist remarks.

I do not condone sexism, racism or anything of that sort. Please do not bother me with such attitudes again. I have absolutely no tolerance for such viewpoints.

You sounded sexist

 

[FHII]

You sounded sexist

I have made no sexist remark on this thread or any other that I am aware of. I do not take into consideration the gender of anyone who posts; only what they say. You, on the other hand have done so on 3 occasions now.

Please do not bother me with your sexist comments. This is the second time I have requested you cease and desist.

I do not appreciate prejudice.

 

[Grailhunter]

I have made no sexist remark on this thread or any other that I am aware of. I do not take into consideration the gender of anyone who posts; only what they say. You, on the other hand have done so on 3 occasions now.

Please do not bother me with your sexist comments. This is the second time I have requested you cease and desist.

I do not appreciate prejudice.

Sorry, I apologize, I did not know you were girl.

 

[FHII]

Sorry, I apologize, I did not know you were girl.

I happen to be a man... Please, respond to me no more. That's the 4th prejudice post you've made. Don't make it worse.

 

[Enoch111]

...as Paul says in 2 Timothy 4:3, many do not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions.

This fits to a T the "disciples" of John Calvin (and all others who taught his false gospel). Calvin failed to maintain and uphold what he actually discovered in the Bible itself, but created a spiritual chimera. And then he persecuted Christians who refused to go along with his nonsense.

SOUND DOCTRINE
Calvin upheld UNLIMITED ATONEMENT in his commentaries, then turned around a taught limited atonement. Proof? His commentary on John 3:17 (Bible Hub):
"17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world. It is a confirmation of the preceding statement; for it was not in vain that God sent his own Son to us. He came not to destroy; and therefore it follows, that it is the peculiar office of the Son of God, that all who believe may obtain salvation by him. There is now no reason why any man should be in a state of hesitation, or of distressing anxiety, as to the manner in which he may escape death, when we believe that it was the purpose of God that Christ should deliver us from it. The word world is again repeated, that no man may think himself wholly excluded, if he only keep the road of faith."

HERESY
The above is in fact the correct interpretation of John 3:17. So why did Calvin turn this on its head? Now we go to his Institutes III.21.5,7 and see that that is exactly what he did: "By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death."...We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction.

Is this not a blatant contradiction of his commentary? Absolutely. So who -- other than Satan -- could cause a man to pervert Scripture and say the exact opposite of what is in the Bible?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

This fits to a T the "disciples" of John Calvin (and all others who taught his false gospel). Calvin failed to maintain and uphold what he actually discovered in the Bible itself, but created a spiritual chimera. And then he persecuted Christians who refused to go along with his nonsense.

SOUND DOCTRINE
Calvin upheld UNLIMITED ATONEMENT in his commentaries, then turned around a taught limited atonement. Proof? His commentary on John 3:17 (Bible Hub):
"17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world. It is a confirmation of the preceding statement; for it was not in vain that God sent his own Son to us. He came not to destroy; and therefore it follows, that it is the peculiar office of the Son of God, that all who believe may obtain salvation by him. There is now no reason why any man should be in a state of hesitation, or of distressing anxiety, as to the manner in which he may escape death, when we believe that it was the purpose of God that Christ should deliver us from it. The word world is again repeated, that no man may think himself wholly excluded, if he only keep the road of faith."

HERESY
The above is in fact the correct interpretation of John 3:17. So why did Calvin turn this on its head? Now we go to his Institutes III.21.5,7 and see that that is exactly what he did: "By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death."...We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction.

Is this not a blatant contradiction of his commentary? Absolutely. So who -- other than Satan -- could cause a man to pervert Scripture and say the exact opposite of what is in the Bible?

what nonsense. Calvin never contradicted himself nor the Bible.

 

[robert derrick]

Calvin's error was teaching that omniscience requires predestinating who does what, which is a lie.

Omniscience is foreknowing who, predestination is foredetermining what, not who.

The only predetermination of God with His Beings is He makes them all the same: Perfectly with love and great care and with free will.

The only will God determined for every soul is free will.

Whosoever is according to their will, and He hedges accordingly, not according to predetermined prejudged will of God, some to do evil and some to do good.

That is why He alls upon all men to repent and to choose the good and not the evil: all made exactly the same with free will.

Those who are puffed up by Calvin to think they were predetermined to be saved before ever the world began, are also some of the biggest hypocrites in the world, mocking God's judgment according to our works and celebrating their fated unconditionally secure salvation while willfully choosing to do evil from time to time at will.

That is where Scripture speaks of such being impossible to come to repentance doing despite to the Spirit of grace unto death and destruction.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Calvin's error was teaching that omniscience requires predestinating who does what, which is a lie.

Omniscience is foreknowing who, predestination is foredetermining what, not who.

The only predetermination of God with His Beings is He makes them all the same: Perfectly with love and great care and with free will.

The only will God determined for every soul is free will.

Whosoever is according to their will, and He hedges accordingly, not according to predetermined prejudged will of God, some to do evil and some to do good.

That is why He alls upon all men to repent and to choose the good and not the evil: all made exactly the same with free will.

Those who are puffed up by Calvin to think they were predetermined to be saved before ever the world began, are also some of the biggest hypocrites in the world, mocking God's judgment according to our works and celebrating their fated unconditionally secure salvation while willfully choosing to do evil from time to time at will.

That is where Scripture speaks of such being impossible to come to repentance doing despite to the Spirit of grace unto death and destruction.

wrong, heretic. Everything you ever say is wrong. Wrong. Just wrong.

 

[TEXBOW]

It must be difficult to realize that your doctrine, a doctrine you have worshiped and drawn a line in the sand to defend starts to crumble before your eyes and heart. Pride must not prevent a person from accepting the truth. There is no shame in admitting you had it wrong. The Holy Spirit guides us, gives us knowledge and wisdom, convicts us, leads us to truth. Never ever let pride stop you from finding the truth.

 

[TEXBOW]

The word "IF" is used in the N.T 574 times. Almost half of those times it's used by Jesus in the Gospels.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

It must be difficult to realize that your doctrine, a doctrine you have worshiped and drawn a line in the sand to defend starts to crumble before your eyes and heart. Pride must not prevent a person from accepting the truth. There is no shame in admitting you had it wrong. The Holy Spirit guides us, gives us knowledge and wisdom, convicts us, leads us to truth. Never ever let pride stop you from finding the truth.

im not sure who you’re speaking to, but if its me, let me assure you that no one ever has shown calvinism to crumble to me. But being that its 100% Biblical, no one could.