YOu miss the import of what Gods Word says for sentimental emotions.
Sorry. I disagree. I respectively must say: First, you are merely reading God's Word out of context.
As I have demonstrated previously in this thread, in my many discussions with Calvinists over the years, no Calvinist has yet to properly explain 2 Thessalonians 2:10, and Jonah 3:10 using the actual Bible. Secondly, God gave us emotions like sentiment for a reason. If they were to be misleading in some way then why did God give us such emotions? Did not Jesus weep? (John 11:35). Did Jesus tell us to have compassion on the half dead and wounded guy on lying on the side of the road?
Luke 10:33
“But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion
on him,”
Then Jesus said,
“Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.” (Luke 10:37).
You said:
God did not create man for destruction. He gave Adam the choice and that choice was then carried on in the natural laws God created for reproduction. Like begets like.
Right, and if free will was given to Adam to choose God, then shouldn't we have the same ability?
In fact, we do read about free will in the Bible in being able to choose God.
My
post #665 proves such a case.
Even after Adam, we learn about how God reasoned with Cain to do good.
If Cain was beyond doing good then why did God bother in wasting his time in telling Cain to do good?
Cain was said to be of that wicked one in 1 John 3:12.
In Genesis 4:7, God says to Cain:
“If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.”
According to a Calvinist, they don't believe the wicked or unsaved are capable of doing good on God's terms and they are totally depraved and in sin no matter what they do. They are dead. So if so... then why is God arguing with Cain to tell him to not sin? Cain is later described of being of that wicked one in 1 John 3:12. So why would God bother to rationalize with one that is reprobate and far gone beyond Him? Could not God just Elect Cain if He so desired instead?
You said:
Yes there is nothing in teh elect that makes them worthy of being chosen by god. the simply are! God did not bother to inform of us His decisions and then we try and fail in our feeble intellects to try to figure out why,
That's Calvinism talking and not the Bible.
You said:
when God said it is "nonya".
Where in the Bible does God say nonya or none of your business? That's you talking and not the Bible.
You said:
Your answer is the perfect modern way of saying this verse and the bibles response:
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Romans 9 is not isolated from the rest of the book of Romans.
The whole point of Romans 9 was written with the Jew in mind in how they were trying to earn salvation by “Works Alone Salvationism” (without God's grace through Jesus Christ), and how they found favor with God based on their nationality (in that they were God's people, Israel).
Romans 9:6-8 is a refutation of the Israelites false belief of salvific nationalism.
Romans 9:9-16 is a refutation of the Israelites false belief of “Works Alone Salvationism” (without Jesus and His grace) but salvation is by him who calls upon the name of the Lord Jesus (Compare Romans 9:11 with Romans 10:13).
Romans 9:17-18 sets up the dilemma for the Israelite in being saved by God's grace and mercy on His terms. Pharaoh was hardened on God's terms in that we know that a person's heart is hardened by their own sin. For a believer who sins and hardens their heart, they can then fall into unbelief and depart from the living God (See: Hebrews 3:12-15). Sin is the breaking of the Law or commandment (1 John 3:4). The Israelite was hardening their heart against God on account of their sin or disobedience to the command to believe in Jesus (1 John 3:23).
Romans 9:19 is the Israelite complaining about how can God find fault because they believe they are doing God's will as an Israelite.
Romans 9:20 A voice answers the Israelite and criticizes the Israelite. The voice asks a question from the Israelites perspective, “Why have you made me this way [i.e. as an Israelite, a keeper of the Law]?”
When reading Romans 9:21-23, we have to keep in mind that God elects based on His foreknowledge (His future foreknowledge of what they are going to do) (1 Peter 1:1-2). The language present in this passage is reminiscent of Jeremiah 18 about how God will form the clay based upon how a nation does not hear his voice, He will turn back on the good He would do unto them. God warns Jerusalem and Judah that He frames evil against them unless they repent. Meaning, based on what we do, a person will fall into one of two categories. The resurrection of life, and the resurrection of the damned (i.e. the vessels of wrath and mercy). God will render to every man according to his deeds (See: Romans 2:6).
Romans 9:30-32 clarifies (recaps) what was being said:
“What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;” (Romans 9:30-32).
“...rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.” (Romans 11:11).
So Romans 9 is really not talking about Calvinistic Unconditional Election.
Even the word “call” used in Romans 9 in reference to God calling does not prove that God is forcing anything upon a person. For many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14).
Side Note:
No doubt you read Romans 9:20 with a Calvinist bias without taking any of the context or surrounding chapters into account. You no doubt read the phrase “
Why hast thou made me thus?” and rejoice in your Calvinism. But it's not talking about that. The Jew is asking “why God have you made me as a Jew to keep the Law?” In other words, the Jews as a nation rejected the Messiah Jesus and His grace by faith and not by the works of the 613 Laws of Moses. The Gentiles attained after righteousness without being an Israelite and without having the 613 Laws of Moses (Which no longer apply under the New Covenant). Christians are under the Laws of Christ and not the Laws of Moses. Christians are initially saved and foundationally saved by grace without works. The Jews falsely believed in a form of Works ALONE Salvationism (Based on their own false man made traditions). It's what the Parable of the Tax Collector and Pharisee are all about. The Pharisee did not understand seeking forgiveness with God and he wrongfully made it all about righteous living alone to be right with God. While righteous living does play a part in our salvation, it is only AFTER we are saved by God's grace without works (See: Ephesians 2:8-9, and compare with 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Titus 1:16, Matthew 3:10).
You said:
We as sinners must remember this fact: God is not obligated to save anyone!
This is you speaking and not the Bible.
2 Peter 3:9 says
“The Lord is not slack concerning
His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
Romans 10:21
“But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.”