John Calvin and Calvinism.

[reformed1689]

Total + depravity = 2 words and they have a meaning....are you going to change the English language next.
And yes it is a doctrine, a false doctrine that revolves around a man---which defines Calvinism as a cult.

Still, all things in perspective, I had a aunt that was a Jehovah's Witness, in my youth she would take me sometimes to the Kingdom Hall...no windows. And because I have been there I know what they do in those halls. Still she was a great woman....great cook.... best fried chicken I have ever ate. She loved God and prayed as much as anyone I know. Still when she is standing in front of the God Yeshua on Judgment Day she will have to explain why she believed He is not a God. Sad for her.

Just like her there are a lot of good Calvinists....sweet Calvinists....that believe in God....that love God.....a horrible tragedy that they are trophies on Satan's shelf....and he dances the aisles of their churches. People that love God in a religion where they horribly blaspheme the character of God....denying mankind free-will....damning them before they were born....did not have a chance....damning them before Judgment Day. Billions of Babies damned to hell with no mercy and no escape. Still a lot of good people but I would not want to be in their shoes on Judgment Day.

Then you also know I don't use total depravity, I use radical depravity. Those two words are not the doctrine. It is something people developed to describe the doctrine but you seriously can't discuss the doctrine on those two words in English. I mean really. How ignorant!

 

[reformed1689]

He does good and what is beneficial for mankind. Denying free-will and enslavement and damnation is not that.

Really? Where do you see that in Scripture? Do you believe people do not go to Hell? If Hell is not beneficial why would he send anyone there? Why not save everyone? Or are you a universalist?

 

[Grailhunter]

Imagine thinking that a persons free will is stronger than God’s will. Thats what you’re telling us, grail.

Who thinks that our will is stronger than God's will. LOL He just not impose His will on us. Again what would be the point and purpose of enslaving the world and making it more of a play. That would have to be one boring play without point or purpose. Absurd!

 

[reformed1689]

Who thinks that our will is stronger than God's will. LOL He just not impose His will on us. Again what would be the point and purpose of enslaving the world and making it more of a play. That would have to be one boring play without point or purpose. Absurd!

You have a logic problem there. If he doesn't impose one thing, that means his will is to let something else happen, therefore, his will is still imposed.

 

[Grailhunter]

Then you also know I don't use total depravity, I use radical depravity. Those two words are not the doctrine. It is something people developed to describe the doctrine but you seriously can't discuss the doctrine on those two words in English. I mean really. How ignorant!

John Calvin's doctrine on total depravity is well documented...no way to hide it.
Personal beliefs....who knows? Still a doctrine of Calvinism.
In my experience of a lot of good, even awesome people that go to Calvinists churches or call themselves Calvinists....they still have their own beliefs. And some call themselves Calvinists and really do not know what it it about.

A Calvinist preacher maybe preaching from the podium to a congregations that do not share his beliefs. As I say, belief control has always been a pipe dream of denominations. Do you believe in a variant of Calvinism?....I don't think you are alone.

 

[reformed1689]

John Calvin's doctrine on total depravity is well documented...no way to hide it.
Personal beliefs....who knows? Still a doctrine of Calvinism.
In my experience of a lot of good, even awesome people that go to Calvinists churches or call themselves Calvinists....they still have their own beliefs. And some call themselves Calvinists and really do not know what it it about.

A Calvinist preacher maybe preaching from the podium to a congregations that do not share his beliefs. As I say, belief control has always been a pipe dream of denominations. Do you believe in a variant of Calvinism?....I don't think you are alone.

Then you know good and well that total depravity has nothing to do with being as bad as one could possibly be.

 

[Grailhunter]

Really? Where do you see that in Scripture?

You really need to read the Bible...
Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God. Galatians 4:7

Do you believe people do not go to Hell?

How many ways have I said that I do not believe that. Even Christians can go to hell.

If Hell is not beneficial why would he send anyone there?

Beneficial? Silly question...hell is eternal punishment.

Why not save everyone? Or are you a universalist?

Nope.

 

[Grailhunter]

You have a logic problem there. If he doesn't impose one thing, that means his will is to let something else happen, therefore, his will is still imposed.

He does not impose his will so it is neither. Free-will and choice...Our lives are made up of our choices as our future is.

 

[Grailhunter]

Then you know good and well that total depravity has nothing to do with being as bad as one could possibly be.

Disagree, total depravity is the doctrine of no sense of good, the nature to do evil and the inability to choose God. Again John Calvin's doctrine of total depravity that is well documented....I think this is the stuff that Calvinist preachers feed their congregation so they will not know the evilness of Calvinism.

 

[reformed1689]

Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God. Galatians 4:7

After conversion.

 

[reformed1689]

Disagree, total depravity is the doctrine of no sense of good and the inability to choose God. Again John Calvin's doctrine of total depravity that is well documented....I think this is the stuff that Calvinist preachers feed their congregation so they will not know the evilness of Calvinism.

That is not the same as bad as you can be.

 

[Grailhunter]

That is not the same as bad as you can be.

Like I said it is well documented and John Calvin never put a limit on total depravity. The word is total...LOL

 

[reformed1689]

Like I said it is well documented and John Calvin never put a limit on total depravity. The word is total...LOL

When did Calvin say total depravity?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

How many ways have I said that I do not believe that. Even Christians can go to hell.
.

what??????????? Where does it say that christians will goto hell?

 

[reformed1689]

what??????????? Where does it say that christians will goto hell?

It doesn't, it just proves he follows his own philosophy and not Scripture.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

It doesn't, it just proves he follows his own philosophy and not Scripture.

agreed.

 

[Grailhunter]

When did Calvin say total depravity?

You can run but you can not hide....You will just die tired...

As I say to anyone that profess to be a Calvinist they need to know what Calvinism is about. It is not hard....books on John Calvin, quotes of John Calvin....well documented....he was a very prolific writer.

“For our nature is not only utterly devoid of goodness, but so prolific in all kinds of evil, that it can never be idle. Those who term it concupiscence use a word not very inappropriate, provided it were added, (this, however, many will by no means concede,) that everything which is in man, from the intellect to the will, from the soul even to the flesh, is defiled and pervaded with this concupiscence; or, to express it more briefly, that the whole man is in himself nothing else than concupiscence.” (Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 2, Chapter 1, Section 8)

The Westminster Confession of Faith explains the nature of the total depravity of all mankind: “We are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil” (WCF 6.4).

Ergo total...inclined to all evil!

 

[Grailhunter]

what??????????? Where does it say that christians will goto hell?

Again read the Bible....the whole New Testament warns Christians about the ramifications of sinning.
Most of Paul's writings are to Christian Churches warning them of the ramification of sinning.
The question is a tell all that you do not understand.
Do you think as a Christian, you can sin all you want and go to heaven?
Do you think heaven is going to be full of evil people?
Is it so that God and good people will have to leave heaven?
LOL Is the guy next to you at that heavenly banquet going to be pouring ketchup on arm because he is a Christian cannibal?

 

[reformed1689]

You can run but you can not hide....You will just die tired...

As I say to anyone that profess to be a Calvinist they need to know what Calvinism is about. It is not hard....books on John Calvin, quotes of John Calvin....well documented....he was a very prolific writer.

“For our nature is not only utterly devoid of goodness, but so prolific in all kinds of evil, that it can never be idle. Those who term it concupiscence use a word not very inappropriate, provided it were added, (this, however, many will by no means concede,) that everything which is in man, from the intellect to the will, from the soul even to the flesh, is defiled and pervaded with this concupiscence; or, to express it more briefly, that the whole man is in himself nothing else than concupiscence.” (Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 2, Chapter 1, Section 8)

The Westminster Confession of Faith explains the nature of the total depravity of all mankind: “We are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil” (WCF 6.4).

Ergo total...inclined to all evil!

I know what reformed theology teaches, but you are making a strawman argument you are taking it to mean something we are not saying. So I don't need to argue with you on this anymore because you take things out of context and take them to conclusions that are not argued.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

You can run but you can not hide....You will just die tired...

As I say to anyone that profess to be a Calvinist they need to know what Calvinism is about. It is not hard....books on John Calvin, quotes of John Calvin....well documented....he was a very prolific writer.

“For our nature is not only utterly devoid of goodness, but so prolific in all kinds of evil, that it can never be idle. Those who term it concupiscence use a word not very inappropriate, provided it were added, (this, however, many will by no means concede,) that everything which is in man, from the intellect to the will, from the soul even to the flesh, is defiled and pervaded with this concupiscence; or, to express it more briefly, that the whole man is in himself nothing else than concupiscence.” (Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 2, Chapter 1, Section 8)

The Westminster Confession of Faith explains the nature of the total depravity of all mankind: “We are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil” (WCF 6.4).

Ergo total...inclined to all evil!

first off, why are you using my confessionals when you dont believe in them?? The WCF belong to us presbyterians.
Secondly, your talk about sinless perfection makes it even more clear that you should be a catholic. Just leave protestantism to us reformed folk. You and @theefaith can discuss all the catholicism you want in the unorthodox doctrine section.