John MacArthur says you have nothing to do with being "born again"

[bbyrd009]

So, is it Christ's physical blood that is applied?

Or, is it done only in the sense of a spiritual reality that is borne out by the fact that Jesus died for us on the Cross?

Bible Search: Jesus died for our sins
oops

 

[justbyfaith]

Bible Search: Jesus died for our sins
oops

See 1 John 5:1.

Then do a search on "Christ died for our sins."

 

[marksman]

As it is written,

2Co 4:4, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

As is what written?

 

[Tong2020]

True. But there is another verse which tells us that the blood of Christ is applied to the souls of sinners so that they become saints.

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (1 Peter 1:2)

That isn't literal at all, but is figurative language and a manner of speaking, no different when scriptures speaks this way concerning the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ:

John 6:53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

I am quite sure the Christian won't take such statements as literal. That is why I wonder why some take like statements be literal concerning the blood of Jesus.

Tong
R1106

 

[bbyrd009]

See 1 John 5:1.

Then do a search on "Christ died for our sins."

yes, ty

 

[Taken]

He says you have as much to do with your spiritual birth as you do with your physical birth - nothing. He says you cannot cause yourself to be "born again". He says that neither Jesus nor Paul nor the disciples commanded anyone to do anything in order to be "born again".

Is MacArthur correct?

Eh-
I am envisioning...
ManArthur being pulled out of his mother's womb against his crying protesting will...
And then
being forced against his will to receive a quickened spirit.

If that is the case...HOKEY!

If his point is Effecting A Born Again spirit is Gods handiworks...that is not NEWS.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Tong2020]

Eh-
I am envisioning...
ManArthur being pulled out of his mother's womb against his crying protesting will...
And then
being forced against his will to receive a quickened spirit.

If that is the case...HOKEY!

If his point is Effecting A Born Again spirit is Gods handiworks...that is not NEWS.

Glory to God,
Taken

I guess you hold the idea that man causes his birth, that is his second birth, or causes himself to be reborn or recreated by God? That man, of his own will, could cause himself to be born from above or be born of God?

Jesus told Nicodemus:

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus apparently have no knowledge about this rebirth, this being born from above, that Jesus was telling him. Jesus told Nicodemus concerning this:

John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Tong
R1107

 

[Taken]

I guess you hold the idea that man causes his birth, that is his second birth, or causes himself to be reborn or recreated by God? That man, of his own will, could cause himself to be born from above or be born of God?

Why are you guessing nonsense, when already stated, born Again is Gods handiworks?

Taken

 

[mailmandan]

However, they are not born again because they obey the gospel. They obey the gospel because they are born again. They are born again because they believe the gospel.

We are born again because we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

 

[Tong2020]

Why are you guessing nonsense, when already stated, born Again is Gods handiworks?

Taken

I read "effecting a born again spirit" as not the same as being born again or born from above. That why.

Tong
R1108

 

[mailmandan]

As it is written,

2Co 4:4, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which BELIEVE NOT..

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

 

[Tong2020]

We are born again because we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

May I ask, what does "born from above" or "born again" means to you?

Tong
R1109

 

[mailmandan]

May I ask, what does "born from above" or "born again" means to you?

Tong
R1109

When we are "born again" or "born from above," the Holy Spirit begets new life, divine life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the Word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. (Titus 3:5)

 

[Taken]

I read "effecting a born again spirit" as not the same as being born again or born from above. That why.

Tong
R1108

Born Again is Gods Handiworks...is beyond the scope of your understanding?

 

[Tong2020]

When we are "born again" or "born from above," the Holy Spirit begets new life, divine life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the Word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. (Titus 3:5)

So, it is clearly referring to a new birth. A birth that is from above, of God. It is referring to a birth different from that which we refer to our earthly birth, when we were brought into this earth. This earthly birth, we all know and acknowledge, as a birth caused by the doing of man, our parents' will. We have nothing to do with that at all. That is not difficult to understand. It's easy as understanding that a dead man can do nothing at all. Now, Jesus speaks about being born again or being born from above, a heavenly birth so to speak. Of this birth, may I ask the following:

Who do you say causes this birth? Whose doing is it? Whose will is it?

Who needs this birth and why is this birth needed?

Tong
R1110

 

[mailmandan]

Of this birth, may I ask the following:

Who do you say cause this birth?

Becoming born again and receiving the washing of regeneration/spiritual washing/purification of the soul is accomplished by the Holy Spirit (Who is the source of living water) through the word of God at the moment of salvation. (John 3:5; 4:10,14; 7:37-39; Ephesians 5:26; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:23)

Whose doing is it?

The Holy Spirit.

Whose will is it?

It's God's will. (John 1:13)

Why does one need this birth?

John 3:3 - ..unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 

[Tong2020]

Becoming born again and receiving the washing of regeneration/spiritual washing/purification of the soul is accomplished by the Holy Spirit (Who is the source of living water) through the word of God at the moment of salvation. (John 3:5; 4:10,14; 7:37-39; Ephesians 5:26; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:23)

The Holy Spirit.

It's God's will. (John 1:13)

John 3:3 - ..unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Thank you.

Clearly then, the birth from above spoken by Jesus in John 3:3 is caused by God, is God's doing, and is of the will of God, not caused by man, not man's doing, and is not of the will of man.

Who needs this birth and why is this birth needed?

It is the dead, that is, the natural sinful man, who while is alive in the flesh is dead in sin, needs to be born again, being made alive, so that they are able and can see the kingdom of God.

I asked these questions because some Christians seem to have a different understanding on this, in that, they believe that they have something to do to cause this birth from above and that they believe that this birth from above is not only of the will of God but also of their will.

Tong
R1111

 

[Taken]

Christians seem to have a different understanding on this, in that, they believe that they have something to do to cause this birth from above and that they believe that this birth from above is not only of the will of God but also of their will.

Tong
R1111

God offers mankind.
Man Accepts Gods Offering.
God accomplishes in that man what He Offered.

 

[Tong2020]

God offers mankind.
Man Accepts Gods Offering.
God accomplishes in that man what He Offered.

Firstly, chopping off a portion of my statement and quoting it isn't at all a good thing to do, which is a form of corrupting what I meant to say.

Was the birth from above offered by God to mankind?
Can the natural sinful man, who are said to be "dead" and so are not able to see, hear, understand, truth that comes from the true God, accept this supposed offering by God to them? Besides, how can they, in and on their own, accept anything from God whom they do not believe in?

Jesus puts it plain and clear, unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God. He cannot see that the God in heaven above is the King whom he must put His faith in, serve and obey.

Tong
R1112

 

[Taken]

Firstly, chopping off a portion of my statement and quoting it isn't at all a good thing to do, which is a form of corrupting what I meant to say.

Chop chop to only that which I was responding to!

Was the birth from above offered by God to mankind?

Yes.

Can the natural sinful man, who are said to be "dead" and so are not able to see, hear, understand, truth that comes from the true God,

They can not hear God...however they can hear or read the Word of God.

accept this supposed offering by God to them?

God offers many, many things, and any individual can discover what those things are by hearing or reading scripture.

Besides, how can they, in and on their own, accept anything from God whom they do not believe in?

It is Obvious men are naturally born without belief...
Some men are content with their Disbelief...
There is nothing for them to accept.
Some men desire to Believe...and seek...Hear/ read...which IS Enlightment.
For their effort, they are blessed with measures of faith from God.

Jesus puts it plain and clear, unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God. He cannot see that the God in heaven above is the King whom he must serve and obey.

Mostly correct.

Must serve? What do you mean? Like what?