It is not calvinism, it is Scripture. Scripture came a little before Calvin. They are in heaven with God, they are the sons of God, the children of God created early in the first world age to keep God company. They are part of the Hebrew early name of God.
Judas' Fate
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It is not calvinism, it is Scripture. Scripture came a little before Calvin. They are in heaven with God, they are the sons of God, the children of God created early in the first world age to keep God company. They are part of the Hebrew early name of God.
Selene
New Member
Hi Templar,
In the first place, the Bible is not a science book, and it is not meant to be read as a science book. In the Bible, there are actually two creation stories. In Genesis Chapter 1, man was created on the 6th day (Genesis 1:26-31). In the first chapter of Genesis, man was created last. But in Genesis Chapter 2, man was created on the first day before the animals and plants (Genesis 2:5-9). In Chapter 2, the plants and animals were created last. Therefore, the Creation story is not meant to be taken literally. It was meant to teach a lesson.
The lesson learned in Chapter 1 is that God is the Creator of everything. How long it took Him to create the entire universe including the dinosaurs is irrelevant. What is relevant is that He created all things visible and invisible. The number 7 days is simply put there to teach the Israelites about the Sabbath. The Jewish Sabbath is connected to creation (Ex. 20:10-11). The lesson taught in Genesis Chapter 2 shows that of all His creation, mankind is His greatest because God created the plants and animlas for man. He did not create man for the plants and animals. Chapter 2 also speaks about the marriage between man and woman and in God's eyes man and woman are equal despite that the woman was created smaller.
In Christ,
Selene
A soul needs a home. Without a body and a spirit to impart life, there is no home. The body to the dust, the spirit back to God, and the soul, the psuche, ceases to exist. AV Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
With the clarity God has afforded, why the determination to muddle things up with human reasoning?
Gn 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Man was created alive, like the beasts, and the plants, and the creepy(ing?) things, but it took the nshamah of God to give him a psuche(soul). There is no soul without a physical body and the spirit of God to animate it.
fivesense
Oh dear! I think we've gone off Judas now!
Jerry: Predestination is a Calvinist theory that denies a person's ability to accept Jesus, working on the principle that before your born you could be headed for Hell and that is so against Jesus' teaching. That is why I'm no Calvinist. It is avain attempt to try and see the world in a very narrow and linear fashion and it doesn't work. I'm sorry I mentioned Calvin.
As for pre-existance, I don't know maybe souls are created before the body is born or maybe alongside, maybe they live in a vault under God's throne or maybe they are made knew every time. None of us can know this side of glory. when Adam was created he was made from dust and it was the breath of god that gave him life.
There's nothing in scripture that say's that the Earth existed before Genesis 1. God does have spiritual beings that keep him company and their called Angels. i can see it as a possibility though and its a good theory.
No! the Bible is not a science book and I never said it was. I think its far more important that people do their best to follow the Gospels than worry about what happened in Genesis 1 and 2.
Jerry: Predestination is a Calvinist theory that denies a person's ability to accept Jesus, working on the principle that before your born you could be headed for Hell and that is so against Jesus' teaching. That is why I'm no Calvinist. It is avain attempt to try and see the world in a very narrow and linear fashion and it doesn't work. I'm sorry I mentioned Calvin.
As for pre-existance, I don't know maybe souls are created before the body is born or maybe alongside, maybe they live in a vault under God's throne or maybe they are made knew every time. None of us can know this side of glory. when Adam was created he was made from dust and it was the breath of god that gave him life.
There's nothing in scripture that say's that the Earth existed before Genesis 1. God does have spiritual beings that keep him company and their called Angels. i can see it as a possibility though and its a good theory.
No! the Bible is not a science book and I never said it was. I think its far more important that people do their best to follow the Gospels than worry about what happened in Genesis 1 and 2.
You are somewhat correct, Genesis 1:1 is the beginning, but Genesis 1: 2 happens millions of years later. Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
vain, (H8414) without form, (H8414)
H8414
tôhû From an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.
Well as far as I know Calvin did not live before Paul, and Paul knew about being Predestination. Or maybe you think Calvin wrote Romans and Ephesians.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
The whole predestination thing was a result of what happened at the end of the first earth age. The very elect and the elect for this, secong age, because of what they did in the first. The earned it, it wasn't a lottery.
A close examination of Genesis 1 reveals much. It declares that at the first (in beginning) Elohim created the heavens and the earth.
That is neither vague nor cryptic. It says they were created at that point.
The next verse, verse 2, it says in the Originals, the earth, she became chaos. The corresponding Greek word is katabole, disuption or cast down, mostly foundation according to the Common Version.
I do not subscribe to the Calvinist theology, although I believe what the Word says about predesignation. The only will that is truly free is God's. The rest of us are subject to principalities, environment, heredity, and circumstances beyond our control that we need God's guidance and wisdom to negotiate.
It is not difficult to conceive of the combat against the Logos taking place during the first earth period. With the powers allied against the Holy One being cast out, they had to go somewhere, and restricting their activities to the physical realm versus the spiritual realm from which they came was wise authored by God.
So, to the disciminating student, aware of the precision of God's record, there is a second account of the earth being re-established through the power of God's spirit hovering over it, forming it once again for habitation as designed.
No! the Bible is not a science book and I never said it was. I think its far more important that people do their best to follow the Gospels than worry about what happened in Genesis 1 and 2.
Though the bible does not claim scientific superiority, there is nothing in science today that cannot find it's validation outside of what was written there. The findings of science only corroborate the Word, but have never disproved it in any way.
fivesense
Have you considered Einstein's theory of relativity and how it might be factored into the creation account?
Can you please post the scriptures you use to support your "millions of years" ?
Here's a question that was overlooked.
jerryjohnson, on 29 May 2010 - 01:32 AM, said:Most have freewill, a few are predestined, some are all ready condemned. It all depends on what you did in the first earth age.
Can you elaborate some Jerry and define more precisely what you mean by "freewill", "predestined", and most importantly "condemned". using some reference scriptures? Thanks
judas' fate?
MT 27:5 Judas hanged himself.
AC 1:18 He fell headlong, burst open, and his bowels gushed out.
MT 27:5 Judas hanged himself.
AC 1:18 He fell headlong, burst open, and his bowels gushed out.
I believe Judas came under very strong demonic attack at this point. Here is that hard to understand paradox of how Judas could have free will and yet the scriptures be fulfilled at the same time.
Regarding Judas Jesus said, "It would be better for him if he had never been born". That doesn't sound to me like he is going to be in heaven. But I do greatly pity this man. I do pity him. But I think the judgment of Judas will not be based on his one act of betrayal. As another poster pointed out, all the disciples betrayed Jesus at some point. Jesus said they were all so unconcerned that none of them could even watch with him for one hour. Judas is known for the one act of betrayal, but I think he will be judged according to his entire life. Did he ever really "know" Jesus? "And Jesus will say unto them depart from me because I never knew you". Matthew 7?
I think you will want to be careful how YOU judge Judas unless you were there his final moments. Scripture says he repented. Scripture also says he was killed. I believe we will be able to ask him when we see him in heaven.
First, killing is not a sin, premeditated murder is a sin.
Judas did not kill himself, he was murdered. You do not cut yourself from top to bottom, so your insides fall out and also hang yourself. Just wait a while, you'll find out.
Where does the Bible say Judas was killed? Thanks.
Paul did somebody in your family commit suicide?
mathew 27 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
It is clear that Judas comitted suicide by hanging himself. No reading of Acts 1 :18 changes this.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Selene
New Member
There are two different versions of Judas' death in the Bible. In the Gospel of Matthew, it says that Judas hung himself (Matthew 27:5). But in the Acts of the Apostles, it says that Judas fell (Acts 1:18). It is not certain how he died, but it is certain that Judas committed suicide either by hanging or by throwing himself headlong from a high cliff. Nevertheless, we cannot judge him, and we really don't know where he is. The Bible says that Judas went to his own place (Acts 1:25). This does not tell us much. It is true that Judas did repent of his actions (Matthew 27:3). However, he was so distraught, devastated, and was in so much grief and remorse over what he had done that he committed suicide.
The murder of oneself is indeed a mortal sin, but because of the circumstances, the culpability of his sin may have been lessened. The Bible speaks of sins that lead to death, and sins that don't lead to death (1 John 5:16). St. John speaks of two different kinds of sins - a sin that leads to death and a sin that does not lead to death. It is possible that Judas may have committed a sin that did not lead to death. We honestly don't know. But what I do know for certain is that all the Apostles were no better than Judas. After Jesus was arrested, where were the rest of the Apostles? Judas may have betrayed Jesus, but the rest of the Apostles abandoned him.
Here is also something to think about - if a person had a mental illness such as schizophrenia, and in this state of mental illness ended up killing a person or even himself, did he commit a mortal sin (a sin that leads to death)? This is why we cannot judge. We can only pray for God's mercy.
The murder of oneself is indeed a mortal sin, but because of the circumstances, the culpability of his sin may have been lessened. The Bible speaks of sins that lead to death, and sins that don't lead to death (1 John 5:16). St. John speaks of two different kinds of sins - a sin that leads to death and a sin that does not lead to death. It is possible that Judas may have committed a sin that did not lead to death. We honestly don't know. But what I do know for certain is that all the Apostles were no better than Judas. After Jesus was arrested, where were the rest of the Apostles? Judas may have betrayed Jesus, but the rest of the Apostles abandoned him.
Here is also something to think about - if a person had a mental illness such as schizophrenia, and in this state of mental illness ended up killing a person or even himself, did he commit a mortal sin (a sin that leads to death)? This is why we cannot judge. We can only pray for God's mercy.
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