Just a Question about conffesions

[Christina]

The Disciples had just been elivated from Disciple to Apostels John 20:22 "And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and saith unto them, "Receive ye the Holy Spirit:""Holy Ghost" in the Greek Test is "Pneuma Hagion", it is the "Holy Spirit". This is the same word used when God breathed in Adam, and He became a living soul. The Holy Spirit is what gives us power from on high. It became possible to receive that eternal life because the price had been paid, and it was acceptable and approved by the Father.John 20:23 "Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained."This is misunderstood by many people. No man can forgive another man's sins, for only God can forgive sin, and then only in Jesus name.Go back to the prior verse. The Holy Spirit was in them, and it was the Holy Spirit from within that would give the conviction to the other person's spirit. The Spirit of God would move on the other man's spirit, not from the spirit of that Apostles.This is also applied to those that would offend one of God's elect, and anointed. When one person would offend one of God's Elect with the Spirit of God in them, then he has offended the very Spirit of God also, and as such those actions or words will be held against the offender. Of course upon repentance by that offender "in Jesus' name", it is forgiven him by the Father, and blotted out from the eternal record.To confess to a man is not the message of the Bible it is a denominational practice. There is only one mediator 1 Timothy 2:5 declares, "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

 

[Sir Knight]

In Matt. 9:6 & Mark 2:10 we see that Christ forgave sins as a man (not God) to convince us that the "Son of man" has authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in Matt. 9:8 we further see that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men." Hence, those who acknowledge that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins (which this verse demonstrates) must prove that this gift ended with the apostles. Otherwise, the apostles' successors still possess this gift. Where in Scripture is the gift of authority to forgive sins taken away from the apostles or their successors?

 

[watt]

IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRITHERE I AM AGAIN TO SHARE THE TRUTH OF GOD LOVE(Sir Knight;54640)
In Matt. 9:6 & Mark 2:10 we see that Christ forgave sins as a man (not God) to convince us that the "Son of man" has authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in Matt. 9:8 we further see that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men." Hence, those who acknowledge that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins (which this verse demonstrates) must prove that this gift ended with the apostles. Otherwise, the apostles' successors still possess this gift. Where in Scripture is the gift of authority to forgive sins taken away from the apostles or their successors?
Sir Knight, you are totally right...As a real CHRISTIAN we should not interprete THE BIBLE with our own ways of thinking...100% it will drag us away from GOD. WE MUST let THE HOLY SPIRIT lead us.THE TRUTH IS IS HERE .. LISTEN THE WORD OF GOD :-On the evening of the first day of the week, when the doors were locked, where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, JESUS came and stood in their midst and said to them, “PEACE BE WITH YOU.” When HE had said this HE showed them HIS hands and HIS side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the LORD. JESUS said to them again, “PEACE BE WITH YOU. As THE FATHER has sent ME, so I send you.” And when HE said this, HE breathed on them and said to them,“RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT. WHOSE SINS YOU FORGIVE ARE FORGIVEN THEM, AND WHOSE SINS YOU RETAIN ARE RETAINED.” (JOHN 20:19-23) Then JESUS came up and said to them, "I HAVE BEEN GIVEN ALL THE AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH. GO, THEREFORE,AND MAKE DICIPLE S FROM ALL NATIONS. BAPTIZE THEM IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND TEACH THEM TO FULFILL ALL THAT I HAVE COMMENDED YOU.I AM WITH YOU ALWAYS UNTIL THE END OF THIS WORLD." (MATTHEW 28 : 18-20)HERE... JESUS PASSED THE AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH TO HIS DISCIPLESHE SAID "AND MAKE DISCIPLE FROM ALL NATIONS" THAT WHY THE NAME OF HIS CHURCH IS "CATHOLIC CHURCH" MEAN "UNIVERSAL CHURCH" BECAUSE ... HE MENTIONED " ALL NATIONS"AND JESUS INSTRUCTED THE DISCIPLES TO TEACH ALL THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN BAPTIZED BY THEM 'IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT' TO FULFILL ALL (THE WORD OF GOD)THAT JESUS HAVE COMMENDED THE DICIPLES WHILE HE WAS WITH THEM.AND JESUS WILL ALWAYS WITH THEM UNTIL THE END OF THIS WORLD.THE TRUTH IS HERE...SEE!! JESUS SAY HE WILL BE WITH US UNTILL THE END OF THIS WORLD. "EMMANUEL" ... AMEN!!JESUS IS ALIVE.... HE IS LISTENING AND WATCHING EVERY EACH OF US. JESUS IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY AND FOREVER. MAY GOD BLESS ALLAMENFROM WATT

 

[Christina]

That is such baloney that's exactly how it should be read.. it was written to all... If you depend on a religion of men to interpret Gods word for you are in danger of being taught lies ...Same thing happened to the Sadducees and Pharisee's ... You must check everything against the Word no matter what any man or his religion tells you. One of the lessons of Christ Himself..Not flesh watt

 

[watt]

in The Name Of The Father And Of The Son And Of The Holy SpiritHere I Am Again To Share The Truth Of God Love(kriss;54688)
that Is Such Baloney That's Exactly How It Should Be Read.. It Was Written To All... If You Depend On A Religion Of Men To Interpret Gods Word For You Are In Danger Of Being Taught Lies ...same Thing Happened To The Sadducees And Pharisee's ... You Must Check Everything Against The Word No Matter What Any Man Or His Religion Tells You. One Of The Lessons Of Christ Himself..not Flesh Watt
Sorry Kriss...actually You Did Not Read My Post Properly.And This Make You Use Your Flesh Again And Again...not The Holy Spirit... Therefore You Will Never See The Truth. My Previous Post Is Inspired By The Holy Spirit...Who Are We To Judge God? God Will Is God Will!!Not Your Will And Not My Will.If We Judge God...then We Are Anti Christ.May God Forgive All Our SinAmenFrom Watt

 

[Christina]

Lol

 

[Sir Knight]

Note in Acts 5:13 that even though the people were believers, they acknowledged the Apostles' special authority and did not dare to take it upon themselves because as we see in Acts 6:6 and Acts 13:3, Apostolic Authority is transferred through the laying on of hands.

 

[Christina]

The Apostels received the full knowledge of the Word of God by God himself on Penecost Daymen today do not receive this full knowlegde directly from Gods mouth but instead are filled with the holy spirit upon Baptism and must over time study and learn the Word and its teachings. So for you to claim this justifies confessing to a man is your blindness. And a lie of men It is also a doctrinal belief of one certain religion. Not a Biblical concept and preaching/teaching the beliefs of Any one religion is against our rules. The Bible teaches only one can forgive sin, there is only one Mediator between man and God that is Christ.

 

[Sir Knight]

(kriss;54709)
The Apostels received the full knowledge of the Word of God by God himself on Penecost Daymen today do not receive this full knowlegde directly from Gods mouth but instead are filled with the holy spirit upon Baptism and must over time study and learn the Word and its teachings. So for you to claim this justifies confessing to a man is your blindness. And a lie of men
You couldn't be further mistaken. Just as the authority of the Father was given to the Son and the Son passed on that authority to His Apostles, His Apostles passed on that SAME authority to their successors. This can be seen in Col 1:25 where Paul calls his position a divine "office." An office has successors. It does not terminate at death. Or it's not an office. And that is the biblical truth.(kriss;54709)
It is also a doctrinal belief of one certain religion. Not a Biblical concept and preaching/teaching the beliefs of Any one religion is against our rules. The Bible teaches only one can forgive sin,
Of course it IS a biblical concept. In Luke 5:24 we see that Jesus' authority to forgive sins is as a man, not God. The Gospel writers record this to convince us that God has given this authority to men. This authority has been transferred from Christ to the apostles and their successors. (kriss;54709)
there is only one Mediator between man and God that is Christ.
Please look at John 20:22-23 & Matt. 18:18 where we see the power to remit/retain sin is also the power to remit/retain punishment due to sin. If Christ's ministers can forgive the eternal penalty of sin, they can certainly remit the temporal penalty of sin.

 

[desktop]

Did you hang on a cross for the sins of mankind? No. None of us did.This always amazes me how someone who claims to know the Lord could show this much disrespect to Him by twisting His Father's Word to such a degree that they would have us believe mere men could forgive sins.CATHOLIC: I agree that Jesus can forgive our sins because he is our great high priest. But the Catholic faith says that Jesus’ priesthood was also given to men so that they could continue his earthly work of forgiving sins. This is a gross misinterpretation of our Father's Word by a sect that has already shown blasphemy in many areas (praying to a dead woman and idols, just to name a couple). Please, to all of you reading this thread who are seeking the answer to this question, I pray in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that you are not deceived by this lie.Listen to what kriss has said in post #28 ...(kriss;54709)
The Apostels received the full knowledge of the Word of God by God himself on Penecost Day men today do not receive this full knowlegde directly from Gods mouth but instead are filled with the holy spirit upon Baptism and must over time study and learn the Word and its teachings. So for you to claim this justifies confessing to a man is your blindness. And a lie of menIt is also a doctrinal belief of one certain religion. Not a Biblical concept and preaching/teaching the beliefs of Any one religion is against our rules. The Bible teaches only one can forgive sin, there is only one Mediator between man and God that is Christ.
Amen.

 

[cfrancis]

What is clear is that those who disagree with the Catholic belief of confession disagree with the Catholic interpretation of the Scriptures; the opponents are saying their interpretation of Scripture is correct, not because of any evidence or reason, but because they say so.Seems there is no problem with believing man can heal and raise people from the dead - powers that originate in and from God alone, a God who doesn't need a man to be His channel of healing and life-giving grace.Such is the connection between a priest and God: God uses the priest a channel of His forgiving grace. And the Scriptures have been provided to show this reality.

 

[waquinas]

Reading Jhn 20:22-23 I think it is obvious that;1) The power to forgive sins was being confered by Jesus through the Holy Spirit onto these men by His Breathing on them - He tells them so and to go and use that power,2) people had to confess to these men -otherwise how would they know what sins should be retained or remitted, (there is no indication of a given physic ability- though Peter is shown to have some special discernment from the Spirit - Acts 5:3)3) this was a power given to them by Jesus and through the Holy Spirit, not something they had alone within themselves from reading scriptures or just having a personal relationship with Him. It was something special, and not given to everyone.The only question would seem to be whether or not this ability is then passed on by these men to others. Personally, I choose to believe God would NOT have granted such a gift/charge lightly or that a dispensation such as this ( for forgiveness of sin in this manner) would only be available only to Christians while these men still lived. So in a similar manner to the way Jesus conveyed this power (breathing the Holy Spirit onto men) it is a power still being conveyed today.As for the opposite position, am certain some will site a lack of passages indicating an event such as the one in Jhn 20:22 being conducted by one of the disciples. They will no doubt suggest (even though there is no indication in scripture that this is so) that this condition/state within the Church was temporary. Nothing in Jesus Words in John 20 suggests it would end or just be temporary. Some will even suggest the practice of breathing the Holy Spirit onto men (or objects) as done today is obviously pagan in origin and/or non-biblical. However at the same time, they would be hard pressed to explain why it is not pagan when Jesus does it.As we can only be sure of two names (Thomas and John) as being in the room when this happens am not sure what good it does wondering why Peter or the later Paul (the next two most prolific NT writers) should fail to record themselves doing the same thing for their disciples. None of them did so directly. However, they did record in great detail the desire that their disciples remember, do and teach other men faithfully and exactly ALL the things they taught, did and said. Paul even goes as far as admonishing Timothy to remember and pass on not just scriptures and letters, but things he saw and heard Paul do. So if they obeyed Jesus and did this (retain and remit sins), then this was something Peter and Paul would have been doing and their disciples would have seen them doing it. To me while it is easy to say we do not have those ALL the things (which Paul speaks of with Timothy) detailed for us in scripture and therefore cannot possibly know what it entailed using scripture alone, I think it is rather naive to suggest then that these things must not have been all that important for us now. Still we must concede it was not recorded for us in scripture, that like Jesus, these men conferred this power to remit or retain sins on others. Obviously John 20:22 is important to us or else it would not be there, so what does it mean to us now if we are to believe this power ended with the death of the men in that room?God said His Word goes out and does not return void (Is 55:11). If I am to believe this was a temporary deal for Christians, I fail to see how granting a power to men, just this group of men, and then this order ending is not an example of the Word returning void. We take other commands of Jesus to His disciples as still applying to us today, why not this one?

 

[Christina]

Bible commentary 1He said, Receive ye the Holy Ghost, thus showing that their spiritual life, as well as all their ability for their work, would be derived from him, and depended upon him. Every word of Christ which is received in the heart by faith, comes accompanied by this Divine breathing; and without this there is neither light nor life. Nothing is seen, known, discerned, or felt of God, but through this. After this, Christ directed the apostles to declare the only method by which sin would be forgiven. This power did not exist at all in the apostles as a power to give judgment, but only as a power to declare the character of those whom God would accept or reject in the day of judgment. They have clearly laid down the marks whereby a child of God may be discerned and be distinguished from a false professor; and according to what they have declared shall every case be decided in the day of judgment. When we assemble in Christ's name, especially on his holy day, he will meet with us, and speak peace to us. The disciples of Christ should endeavour to build up one another in their most holy faith, both by repeating what they have heard to those that were absent, and by making known what they have experienced. Thomas limited the Holy One of Israel, when he would be convinced by his own method or not at all. He might justly have been left in his unbelief, after rejecting such abundant proofs. The fears and sorrows of the disciples are often lengthened, to punish their negligence.http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.php?b=43&c=20&com=mhcCommentary 2Joh 20Verse 23. Whose soever sins ye remit] See the notes on Matt. xvi. 19; xviii. 18. It is certain God alone can forgive sins; and it would not only be blasphemous, but grossly absurd, to say that any creature could remit the guilt of a transgression which had been committed against the Creator. The apostles received from the Lord the doctrine of reconciliation, and the doctrine of condemnation. They who believed on the Son of God, in consequence of their preaching, had their sins remitted; and they who would not believe were declared to lie under condemnation. The reader is desired to consult the note referred to above, where the custom to which our Lord alludes is particularly considered. Dr. Lightfoot supposes that the power of life and death, and the power of delivering over to Satan, which was granted to the apostles, is here referred to. This was a power which the primitive apostles exclusively possessed. http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/clarkejoh20.htm........... Remember here that Christ breathed directly on them this has never happened sense and is reminest of God breathing into Adam There is no Biblical evidence that this was a gift given to any others and in fact it goes against all scripture teaches.Heres a sermon on this if your interestedhttp://www.all-creatures.org/sermons97/s10apr94.html

 

[cfrancis]

Kriss, those commentaries are very fine, and make interesting reading - but they are simply opinions in agreement with your own. Fine opinions, to be sure, but only opinions. They are not authoritative.

 

[Christina]

Yes they are Words of men same as your teachings but the entire bible backs them up by teaching Only God can forgive sins something your teachings can not claim. Therefore my opinions have much more crediability The Word of God.

 

[cfrancis]

We're back to your argument that your interpretation of the Bible is more correct than mine because you say so - an argument without merit. Your statement that the opinions you posted are backed up by your interpretation of the Bible is equally without merit.I make the same claim, then, as you: the Catholic interpretation of Scripture is correct and backed up by the Bible.Christ spoke plainly that the Apostles had the power for forgive or retain sins of others. You - and others - appear intent on ignoring the nuance being presented to you: God is forgiving sins through men, just as God chooses to heal and raise the dead through men. Men have no power, it is God's power.

 

[Jordan]

(cfrancis;54933)
We're back to your argument that your interpretation of the Bible is more correct than mine because you say so - an argument without merit. Your statement that the opinions you posted are backed up by your interpretation of the Bible is equally without merit.I make the same claim, then, as you: the Catholic interpretation of Scripture is correct and backed up by the Bible.Christ spoke plainly that the Apostles had the power for forgive or retain sins of others. You - and others - appear intent on ignoring the nuance being presented to you: God is forgiving sins through men, just as God chooses to heal and raise the dead through men. Men have no power, it is God's power.
Do you not realize that God explains His own Words, that He knows His symbolic. And Kriss's right, only God can forgive sins. Nobody, not a single sinner can. Catholicism to be honest can't even follow Christ because of their set rules.

 

[cfrancis]

That only God can forgive sins is a statement in which you and all Catholics agree. The issue at hand seems to be, can God use man as a channel of that forgiving grace. The similar issue is at hand when talking about healing and raising people from the dead.As we've shown the Scriptures that support that position, we, without reservation, say, "Yes."You look at the same Scriptures and say, without reservation, "No."You are entitled to your pithy remarks re: Catholicism, but they are, in the end, simply your opinion.

 

[Jordan]

(cfrancis;54936)
That only God can forgive sins is a statement in which you and all Catholics agree. The issue at hand seems to be, can God use man as a channel of that forgiving grace. The similar issue is at hand when talking about healing and raising people from the dead.As we've shown the Scriptures that support that position, we, without reservation, say, "Yes."You look at the same Scriptures and say, without reservation, "No."You are entitled to your pithy remarks re: Catholicism, but they are, in the end, simply your opinion.
Opinions are opinions, but I don't rely on opinions. I only live my life with facts. So I will never apologize for telling the Truth. God's Words trumps men's words.The foolishness of God is wiser than men. (I Corinthians 1:25)

 

[Christina]

(cfrancis;54933)
We're back to your argument that your interpretation of the Bible is more correct than mine because you say so - an argument without merit. Your statement that the opinions you posted are backed up by your interpretation of the Bible is equally without merit.I make the same claim, then, as you: the Catholic interpretation of Scripture is correct and backed up by the Bible.Christ spoke plainly that the Apostles had the power for forgive or retain sins of others. You - and others - appear intent on ignoring the nuance being presented to you: God is forgiving sins through men, just as God chooses to heal and raise the dead through men. Men have no power, it is God's power.
God is no religion catholic or otherwise religious denominations are by men for men Christianity is for all who accept Christ as their savior no denomination created by men is required .We are not going to debate right and wrong religions please read and follow the rules