And this is a big problem with prot's as they are so wrapped up with worldly perceptions, that they disregard totally the Spiritual position.
-- It is the "caths" (lol) spiritual position that is the problem. Unsupported, unsubstantiated, non-scriptural claims like this:
"To cause Mary to be born without original sin and its stain (i.e., immaculate), God infused sanctifying grace into her soul at the moment of her conception. Mary was given the special privilege of being conceived without original sin (with sanctifying grace) and without the damage or stain such a conception causes." - Neophyte
Mary is a mother to all Christians i would think.
-- Jesus never told me to pray to my or His mother. He said to call on Him - directly.
Those that claim that saying the Hail Mary is honoring Him are - to say the least - stretching it a bit.
In the Hail Mary you tell Mary:
- She is full of grace
- The Lord is with her
- She is blessed among woman
- The fruit of her womb is blessed
- You want her to pray for us
The "caths" in this thread try to sell that as focusing on Jesus.
They are still trying to say even though a 5-decade rosary where you say the Hail Mary 153 times, but the Our Father (the way JESUS HIMSELF taught us we should pray) only six times.
Then you finish up with this:
"HAIL, HOLY QUEEN, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve; to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!"
First, you are asking Mary to turn her "eyes of mercy towards us" when you should be asking that DIRECTLY of Jesus, as He says we can.
It is Jesus' mercy we are to seek. Not Mary's.
What is sad is that people actually think Jesus would deny His mercy because Mary gave a thumbs-down,
("Sorry, I'd like to but my mom says no") or that He wouldn't have shown you mercy without her ("I was going to ignore your prayers, your pleas and pain, but since my mom asked...") I don't think so.
And before Neophyte or Mungo goes there, it matters not what she did on earth in her efforts to convince her son to change the water into wine. His death tore the curtain seperating man from God and freed us to address Him directly and intimately.
He doesn't need His mom to filter us out or curry favor for us.
We either have the intimacy that Jesus promises and desires for us, or we don't.
Second, asking her to "show us the blessed fruit of thy womb" is something that the Holy Spirit does - not Mary.
You ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you.
Since that is something God desires to do, He promises in His Word that He will do that for you. Mary isn't needed in the least.
.