The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit , are you forgetting, for it is written that God the Father also likes to hear prayers from us.
Just heard about the rosary....
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According to the Bible you may also ask the saints to pray [ intercede ] for us. I also believe that Mary the mother of our Lord is a saint. --- " And with the prayers of the saints there went up before God from the angel's hand the smoke of the incense " [ Apocalypse/ Revelation 8: 4.; [ Job 42:8-9 ]
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Yup, Read post # 383.
Other Christians here on earth can pray for us to God, as well.
The last request I received from someone for prayer was via text message.
Asking someone on earth to pray for you - if you are honest - is quite different than getting on your knees, closing your eyes, clasping your hands, and attempting to connect with someone in heaven, who may or may not be listening, to request that they pray for you.
Again, if you choose to believe that people in heaven can hear you, see you, obseve your life non-stop, and can intercede for you, then can't you assume that they are already doing that and there is no need to make a specific request of them?
Or do you feel that they have to be nudged into praying for you?
I would also mention that if you feel you get a response back from someone in Heaven other than Jesus - even Mary - then you need to be concerned rebuke them.
Because it is NOT them you are actually hearing from.
Other Christians here on earth can pray for us to God, as well.
The last request I received from someone for prayer was via text message.
Asking someone on earth to pray for you - if you are honest - is quite different than getting on your knees, closing your eyes, clasping your hands, and attempting to connect with someone in heaven, who may or may not be listening, to request that they pray for you.
Again, if you choose to believe that people in heaven can hear you, see you, obseve your life non-stop, and can intercede for you, then can't you assume that they are already doing that and there is no need to make a specific request of them?
Or do you feel that they have to be nudged into praying for you?
I would also mention that if you feel you get a response back from someone in Heaven other than Jesus - even Mary - then you need to be concerned rebuke them.
Because it is NOT them you are actually hearing from.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Now here is where you and I differ, Foreigner. I just pointed out a contradict in your posts - you clarified and pointed out that you are actually talking about 2 different things. Instead of ignoring your clarification and merely restating both statements you made that look like contradictions, I am going to just move on.....I am not keeping score or trying to point out strained hypocrisy in your statements.
Not sure why you think it is so important to be RIGHT in every discussion or make it your job to run around trying to pantse everyone - doesn't it get boring? And please - either ignore my question or answer it without trying to turn the question around on me .......so predictable and meaningless.
Not sure why you think it is so important to be RIGHT in every discussion or make it your job to run around trying to pantse everyone - doesn't it get boring? And please - either ignore my question or answer it without trying to turn the question around on me .......so predictable and meaningless.
-- Oh I agree with you - you should really move on.
You post is a linguistic Rorschach Test that leaves me wondering what you are talking about.
But since the this thread is about the Rosary, I may as well correct you yet again:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
II. DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN
<a href="javascript
penWindow('cr/971.htm');">971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."[sup]515[/sup] The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."[sup]516[/sup] The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.[sup]517[/sup] -- You were one of the people here condescendingly claiming that the Rosary was for the edification of Jesus, not Mary.
Apparently your own church doesn't agree with you.
-- Oh I agree with you - you should really move on.
You post is a linguistic Rorschach Test that leaves me wondering what you are talking about.
But since the this thread is about the Rosary, I may as well correct you yet again:
http://www.vatican.v...sm/p123a9p6.htm
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
II. DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN
<a href="javascript
-- You were one of the people here condescendingly claiming that the Rosary was for the edification of Jesus, not Mary.
Apparently your own church doesn't agree with you.
Note the point that the Catechism makes that it is an "epitome of the whole Gospel,".
Here are some extracts from the Apostolic Constitution Marialis Cultus of Pope Paul VI. Note particularly the points i have emboldened.
We wish now, venerable Brothers, to dwell for a moment on the renewal of the pious practice which has been called "the compendium of the entire Gospel"…….
As a Gospel prayer, centred on the mystery of the redemptive Incarnation, the Rosary is therefore a prayer with a clearly Christological orientation. Its most characteristic element, in fact, the litany-like succession of Hail Mary's, becomes in itself an unceasing praise of Christ, who is the ultimate object both of the angel's announcement and of the greeting of the mother of John the Baptist: "Blessed is the fruit of your womb" (Lk. 1:42).
By its nature the recitation of the Rosary calls for a quiet rhythm and a lingering pace, helping the individual to meditate on the mysteries of the Lord's life as seen through the eyes of her who was closest to the Lord. In this way the unfathomable riches of these mysteries are unfolded.
As the Directory on popular piety and the liturgy says:
Thus, "the Roman Pontiffs have repeatedly exhorted the faithful to the frequent recitation of this biblically inspired prayer which is centred on contemplation of the salvific events of Christ's life, and their close association with the his Virgin Mother.
Here is a better way to look at 'the salvific events of Christ's life' and to allow them to affect us intimately.
Matthew 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 3 And Jesus put forth [his] hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with [his] word, and healed all that were sick: 17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias [Isaiah] the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare [our] sicknesses.
Luke 13:11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up [herself]. 12 And when Jesus saw her, he called [her to him], and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. 13 And he laid [his] hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.
14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
15 The Lord then answered him, and said, [Thou] hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or [his] ass from the stall, and lead [him] away to watering? 16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day? 17 And when He had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by Him.
And the final triumph of His life:
John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, said, I thirst. 29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to His mouth. 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is finished: and He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost.
Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
The letter to the Hebrews begins: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken to us by [his] Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power,
when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.
Hebrews 10 quotes the prophecy in Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart, which Jesus fulfilled in His life and death for us:
3 But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year. 4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when He cometh into the world, He saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when He said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; .... 9 Then said He, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God.... 10 By the which will we [who believe] are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].
We read in John's gospel, how Jesus referred to His own body as a Holy of Holies: John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But He spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that he had said this to them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
Hebrews 10 explains Christ's body is like the veil which was torn, so we may go straight to God in prayer.
15 [Whereof] the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that He had said before, 16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin. 19 - 22 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh; and [having] an High Priest over the house of God; let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things [are] naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Here is a better way to look at 'the salvific events of Christ's life' and to allow them to affect us intimately.
Matthew 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 3 And Jesus put forth [his] hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with [his] word, and healed all that were sick: 17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias [Isaiah] the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare [our] sicknesses.
Luke 13:11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up [herself]. 12 And when Jesus saw her, he called [her to him], and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. 13 And he laid [his] hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.
14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
15 The Lord then answered him, and said, [Thou] hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or [his] ass from the stall, and lead [him] away to watering? 16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day? 17 And when He had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by Him.
And the final triumph of His life:
John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, said, I thirst. 29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put [it] upon hyssop, and put [it] to His mouth. 30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, He said, It is finished: and He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost.
Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
The letter to the Hebrews begins: God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken to us by [his] Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power,
when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.
Hebrews 10 quotes the prophecy in Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart, which Jesus fulfilled in His life and death for us:
3 But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year. 4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when He cometh into the world, He saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when He said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; .... 9 Then said He, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God.... 10 By the which will we [who believe] are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].
We read in John's gospel, how Jesus referred to His own body as a Holy of Holies: John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But He spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that he had said this to them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
Hebrews 10 explains Christ's body is like the veil which was torn, so we may go straight to God in prayer.
15 [Whereof] the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that He had said before, 16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin. 19 - 22 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh; and [having] an High Priest over the house of God; let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things [are] naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
There are many ways to contemplation of the salvific events of Christ's life. That yours is a better way is only your opinion.
You left out the key part, Mungo.
When describing the Rosary the Catholic Catechism says, "The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.[sup]517[/sup]
It stats flat out that the Rosary is a devotion to the Virgin Mary.
Glad I could clear that up for you.
When describing the Rosary the Catholic Catechism says, "The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.[sup]517[/sup]
It stats flat out that the Rosary is a devotion to the Virgin Mary.
Glad I could clear that up for you.
From the Compendium to the Catechism
562. How is Christian prayer Marian?
Because of her singular cooperation with the action of the Holy Spirit, the Church loves to pray to Mary and with Mary, the perfect ‘pray-er’, and to “magnify” and invoke the Lord with her. Mary in effect shows us the “Way” who is her Son, the one and only Mediator.
From the Directory on popular piety and the liturgy
186. The fundamental principle of the Magisterium with regard to such pious exercises is that they should be derivative from the "one worship which is rightly called Christian, because it efficaciously originates in Christ, finds full expression in Christ, and through Him, in the Holy Spirit leads to the Father". Hence, Marian devotions, in varying degrees and modes, should:
- give expression to the Trinitarian note which characterises worship of the God revealed in the New Testament, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit; the pneumatological aspect, since every true form of piety comes from the Spirit and is exercised in the Spirit; the ecclesial character, in virtue of which the faithful are constituted as the holy people of God, gathered in prayer in the Lord's name (cf. Mt 18, 20) in the vital Communion of Saints;
- have constant recourse to Sacred Scripture, as understood in Sacred Tradition; not overlook the demands of the ecumenical movement in the Church's profession of faith; consider the anthropological aspects of cultic expressions so as to reflect a true concept of man and a valid response to his needs; highlight the eschatological tension which is essential to the Gospel message; make clear missionary responsibility and the duty of bearing witness, which are incumbent on the Lord's disciples.
We wish now, venerable Brothers, to dwell for a moment on the renewal of the pious practice which has been called "the compendium of the entire Gospel"…….
As a Gospel prayer, centred on the mystery of the redemptive Incarnation, the Rosary is therefore a prayer with a clearly Christological orientation. Its most characteristic element, in fact, the litany-like succession of Hail Mary's, becomes in itself an unceasing praise of Christ, who is the ultimate object both of the angel's announcement and of the greeting of the mother of John the Baptist: "Blessed is the fruit of your womb" (Lk. 1:42).
By its nature the recitation of the Rosary calls for a quiet rhythm and a lingering pace, helping the individual to meditate on the mysteries of the Lord's life as seen through the eyes of her who was closest to the Lord. In this way the unfathomable riches of these mysteries are unfolded.
As the Directory on popular piety and the liturgy says:
Thus, "the Roman Pontiffs have repeatedly exhorted the faithful to the frequent recitation of this biblically inspired prayer which is centred on contemplation of the salvific events of Christ's life, and their close association with the his Virgin Mother.
-- Mungo, you need to get with Neophyte and Aspen and get your stories straight.
I can't tell you how many times it has been said by Catholics on this board that they do not "pray to Mary."
They simply "ask for her intercession/prayers" like we ask our Christian friends here on earth.
That is COMPLETELY - did I mention COMPLETELY? - different from what you have posted here.
But as far as, " Mary in effect shows us the “Way” who is her Son, the one and only Mediator." that is ridiculous. The Holy Spirit does that, not Mary.
But take a step back and realize that everything you posted doesn't negate the words "express this devotion to the Virgin Mary."
The Rosary is a "devotion to the Virgin Mary." By the Catechism's own words, Jesus is not the focal point of the devotion. SHE is.
Foreigner,
I'm not continuing with this nonesense of yours.
I'm done with this thread.
"The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary."[sup]517[/sup]
So, directly quoting the Catholic Catechism is "nonesense?"....................interesting.
I am sorry that what your own faith declares about the Rosary is different than what you declare they say, but that is not my fault.
And as far as " Mary in effect shows us the “Way” who is her Son, the one and only Mediator,"
that again the role of the Holy Spirit inside of us, not Mary in heaven.
That is why millions of born again, spirit filled non-Catholic Christians the world over are able to have an intimate loving relationship with Jesus Christ.
Adios.
So, directly quoting the Catholic Catechism is "nonesense?"....................interesting.
I am sorry that what your own faith declares about the Rosary is different than what you declare they say, but that is not my fault.
And as far as " Mary in effect shows us the “Way” who is her Son, the one and only Mediator,"
that again the role of the Holy Spirit inside of us, not Mary in heaven.
That is why millions of born again, spirit filled non-Catholic Christians the world over are able to have an intimate loving relationship with Jesus Christ.
Adios.
Only in your mind Foreigner. Mary leads "all" to her Son, more than any individual pope , minister, pastor or other Christian member . God the Father will always recognize the prayers from a worthy person and nobody is more recognized amongst women than the ever-virgin Mary, mother of Christ our Savior.As Christ is our Brother, Mary is also our heavenly mother.
Those who pray the Rosary regularly would do well to be enrolled in the Confraternity to gain extra spiritual benefits for each Rosary they pray.
Respectfully I disagree with this; God thinks of everyone the same and equal he doesn't have "right hand men" or high ranks in heaven or on earth.
Respetfully
Kyle
Respectfully I disagree with this; God thinks of everyone the same and equal he doesn't have "right hand men" or high ranks in heaven or on earth.
Ok where is it biblically proved that we have a heavenly mother. Mary was the physical mother of Jesus on earth but Jesus doesn't have a physical body anymore therefore she can't be a spiritual mother she is only a physical mother.
Respetfully
Kyle
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
-- Neophyte, it would seem you are either being intentionally obtuse, or are just incapable of comprehending simple statements.
I never mentioned "any individual pope, minister, pastor, or other Christian member."
I said it was THE HOLY SPIRIT living inside us who shows us the way to Jesus. Not Mary.
That is one of the roles of the Holy Spirit.
To say that Mary is needed for that is to say that God living inside us is not fully capable in His role.
He didn't say, "Use the Holy Spirit 'til Ma goes, then listen to her, instead."
But getting back to the actual topic of this thread:
You were also one of the people here who said the Rosary was for the edification of Christ.
I have posted what your Church says about the Rosary - directly from the Catholic Catechism - and you again ignore it:
"The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary."[sup]517[/sup]
Mungo fled, calling it "nonsense."
How about you?
.
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