Justifying Works

[Netchaplain]

The Greek usage for “justify” has two primary definitions* and in all cases for all words the context determines the usage. I) to render one to be righteous; II) to show or manifest one has been rendered righteous. Since there is only One who is just, it is only He who can render one to be justified (I), and that by imputation only:

“To demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus” (Rom 3:26 – render, I).

“It is God who justifies” (Rom 8:33 – render, I).

“For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God” (Rom 4:2 – render I).

“You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only” (Jam 2:24 – show, II).

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar” (Jam 2:21 – show II)?

“Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way” (Jam 2:24 – show II)?

Even the forgiveness of sins in the prior dispensation were based on faith in God. Until Christ, there could be no remission of sins but instead it was “forbearance,” passing over or overlooking the judgement and punishment of the believers in God.

“God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed (Rom 3:25); “Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent” (Act 17:30). The “setting forth” is in reference to applying the Blood of Christ in His “propitiation” ahead of time to the OT believers, which was “shadowed” (Heb 10:1) in the sin sacrifices of the Law.

* https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1344&t=KJV (using definitions I and II).

- NC

 

[heretoeternity]

James says "faith without works is dead" and Paul in Romans says "it is doers of the law that are justified, no hearers of the law" and "do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. We establish the law"....the works part is, of course, repentance after being forgiven of sins by God's grace.

 

[Netchaplain]

James says "faith without works is dead" and Paul in Romans says "it is doers of the law that are justified, no hearers of the law" and "do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. We establish the law"....the works part is, of course, repentance after being forgiven of sins by God's grace.

To me "establishing the Law" is agreeing with it that it shows we are guilty. If it meant that Israel could keep the law then where would the need be for Christ's expiation for sin? "D[SIZE=14.4px]oers of the law" is a hyperbolic expression of the concept that if there was a doer of the law:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.4px]Gill: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14.4px]"B[/SIZE]ut the doers of the law, shall be justified; by whom are meant, not such who merely literally and externally fulfill the law, as they imagine; for the law is spiritual, and regards the inward as well as the outward man, and requires internal holiness, as well as external obedience; and the apostle is speaking of justification before God, who sees the heart, and not before men, who judge according to outward appearance: nor are such designed who are imperfect doers of the law; for the law requires a perfect obedience, and what is not perfect is not properly righteousness; nor does it, nor can it consider an imperfect righteousness as a perfect one; for it accuses of, pronounces guilty, curses, and condemns for every transgression of it. But such only can be intended, who are doers of it spiritually, internally, as well as externally, and that perfectly. Adam, in his state of innocence, was a perfect doer of the law; he sinning, and all his posterity in him, none of them are righteous, but all pass under a sentence of condemnation. The best of men, even believers in Christ, are not without sin in themselves; and when any of the saints are said to be perfect, it must be understood in a comparative sense, or as they are considered in Christ. There never was but one since Adam, and that is Christ, who has fulfilled, or could perfectly fulfill the law; the thing is impossible and impracticable for fallen man: hence these words must be understood either hypothetically, thus, not the hearers of the law, but if there were any perfect doers of it, they would be justified before God; or else of such persons who are considered in Christ, by whom the whole perfect righteousness of the law is fulfilled in them, and who may be reckoned as perfect doers of it in him, their substitute, surety, and representative."

http://www.christianity.com/bible/commentary.php?com=gill&b=45&c=2

Blessings!

 

[heretoeternity]

Learn to separate the law of God and the law of Moses...the former was written by God Himself on the stone tablets...the law of Moses if the sacrificial law, circumcision law and 600 circa other ceremonial, food, feast laws etc....written by Moses...in Acts 15 the law of Moses was considered obsolete by the Apostles with the exception of the four mentioned...
This does not affect God's law the ten Commandments...

 

[Netchaplain]

Learn to separate the law of God and the law of Moses...the former was written by God Himself on the stone tablets...the law of Moses if the sacrificial law, circumcision law and 600 circa other ceremonial, food, feast laws etc....written by Moses...in Acts 15 the law of Moses was considered obsolete by the Apostles with the exception of the four mentioned...
This does not affect God's law the ten Commandments...

Hi HTE - There are those who teach a separation between the Decalogue and the rest of the Law statutes and ordinances but I see no Scripture support for it. If you think about it, not only was the Decalogue only to Israel, it also never effected forgiveness, which came only from the sacrificial and sin offerings.

The present Covenant is "not in tablets of stone" but "the Spirit" (2Cor 3:3).

Appreciate your reply and God bless!

 

[heretoeternity]

Jesus introduced the spirit of the law (the ten commandments)...when He said "anyone who looks on a woman lustfully has committed adultery in his heart" and "anyone who hates his brother for no reason has committed murder Matthew 5 and 1st John...that is the spirit of the law...it does not negate the Ten commandments, but puts it in our hearts and minds. As God said Hebrews 8 "I will write my laws on their hearts and their minds, and I will be their God, and they will be my people"

 

[Netchaplain]

Jesus introduced the spirit of the law (the ten commandments)...when He said "anyone who looks on a woman lustfully has committed adultery in his heart" and "anyone who hates his brother for no reason has committed murder Matthew 5 and 1st John...that is the spirit of the law...it does not negate the Ten commandments, but puts it in our hearts and minds. As God said Hebrews 8 "I will write my laws on their hearts and their minds, and I will be their God, and they will be my people"

I understand your reasoning, but our impasse now is that I believe the Decalogue was part of the Law, so we cannot justify debating this issue. Thanks anyway my Brother!

 

[heretoeternity]

Ex 20 the ten commandments were written by God...the Mosaic law was was written by Moses later..hope that helps you!

 

[heretoeternity]

BTW the tablets of stone with God's ten commandments are inside the ark of the covenant...the Mosaic law written by Moses is on the outside..Ex 25

 

[Netchaplain]

Ex 20 the ten commandments were written by God...the Mosaic law was was written by Moses later..hope that helps you!

Thanks, but knew this. Blessings!

 

[kerwin]

...
Since there is only One who is just, it is only He who can render one to be justified (I), and that by imputation only:

...

Though I have not claim about the Koine Greek word translated it sounds reasonable. My disagreement is with these words " and that by imputation only" and that is because they deny deny the power of the Spirit; which is only given to humanity in order to justify the believer under the new covenant.

 

[Jun2u]

God told Jeremiah to write in a book all the things God wanted to convey in Jeremiah 36: 1-4. Likewise, God also told Moses along with Paul to do the same and these books then became part of the Bible.

Holy men of God spoke as God the Holy Spirit moved them.

Ultimately, therefore God is the Author of the whole Bible which also is the Law Book of God to mankind.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Netchaplain]

Though I have not claim about the Koine Greek word translated it sounds reasonable. My disagreement is with these words " and that by imputation only" and that is because they deny deny the power of the Spirit; which is only given to humanity in order to justify the believer under the new covenant.

I think I understand your point, but impute and impart are not synonymous. If God could impart righteousness that would mean you would have your own instead of it being imputed, and to have your own would require being without the sin nature, which only Jesus was. Thus the righteousness believers are in is Christ's, "who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption" (1Cor 1:30). Scripture shows only "imputed" righteousness for man.

Thanks for your input and God bless!

 

[Netchaplain]

God told Jeremiah to write in a book all the things God wanted to convey in Jeremiah 36: 1-4. Likewise, God also told Moses along with Paul to do the same and these books then became part of the Bible.

Holy men of God spoke as God the Holy Spirit moved them.

Ultimately, therefore God is the Author of the whole Bible which also is the Law Book of God to mankind.

To God Be The Glory

I agree, Scripture's use of the phrase command or law of God often means His will and desire, not always the Law of Moss, esp. in the NT in the Pauline Epistles.

Thanks and God bless!

 

[kerwin]

I think I understand your point, but impute and impart are not synonymous. If God could impart righteousness that would mean you would have your own instead of it being imputed, and to have your own would require being without the sin nature, which only Jesus was. Thus the righteousness believers are in is Christ's, "who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption" (1Cor 1:30). Scripture shows only "imputed" righteousness for man.

Thanks for your input and God bless!

Paul teaches us that we can both have the sin nature, which he calls flesh, and be like God in true righteousness and holiness by choosing to walk by the Spirit and not but the flesh. (Galatians 5:16-23 and Ephesians 4:21-24)

This is accomplished by faith from first to last (Romans 1:17 and Philippians 3:9) and is a process and is a process of learning how to continuously do so. That is where the "impute" come in and serves until the "impart" is finished with its work.

 

[Netchaplain]

Paul teaches us that we can both have the sin nature, which he calls flesh, and be like God in true righteousness and holiness by choosing to walk by the Spirit and not but the flesh. (Galatians 5:16-23 and Ephesians 4:21-24)

This is accomplished by faith from first to last (Romans 1:17 and Philippians 3:9) and is a process and is a process of learning how to continuously do so. That is where the "impute" come in and serves until the "impart" is finished with its work.

I partly agree, in that we still have the sin nature, thus we still sin, but it's not willful (Heb 10:26). And because of the "old man" (sin nature) we cannot possess our own righteousness. This is why "Christ is our life" (Col 3:4) and hence His righteousness is our righteousness, for He "is made unto us righteousness" (1Cor 1:30).

Being in Christ, God causes us to "desire and do His good pleasure" (Phl 2:13), which to me means (as you've indicated) that as we "live in the Spirit" God directs us to "walk in the Spirit" (Gal 5:25), which will show more all the time. All the attributes of God are vicariously possessed (righteousness, justification, sanctification, holiness, etc.) in Christ in us, for the attributes of God are incommunicable (cannot be imparted) to man and thus must be imputed.

Blessings!

 

[kerwin]

I partly agree, in that we still have the sin nature, thus we still sin, but it's not willful (Heb 10:26). And because of the "old man" (sin nature) we cannot possess our own righteousness. This is why "Christ is our life" (Col 3:4) and hence His righteousness is our righteousness, for He "is made unto us righteousness" (1Cor 1:30).

Being in Christ, God causes us to "desire and do His good pleasure" (Phl 2:13), which to me means (as you've indicated) that as we "live in the Spirit" God directs us to "walk in the Spirit" (Gal 5:25), which will show more all the time. All the attributes of God are vicariously possessed (righteousness, justification, sanctification, holiness, etc.) in Christ in us, for the attributes of God are incommunicable (cannot be imparted) to man and thus must be imputed.

Blessings!

I agree with the words "Being in Christ, God causes us to "desire and do His good pleasure" (Phl 2:13),"

The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit which he can and does impart to humanity as an advocate under the new covenant and he has done for reasons in the past. In the past the imparted Spirit of God bestowed gifts on human and in the case of King Saul actually caused him to become a new man.

Here is a case from Scripture:

Numbers 11:25Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

25 And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

"Vicariously" does not reveal the idea behind being credited with righteousness. Credited is because God keeps his promises and he will do what he said as long as you have faith in him and in his Son.

 

[Netchaplain]

I agree with the words "Being in Christ, God causes us to "desire and do His good pleasure" (Phl 2:13),"

The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit which he can and does impart to humanity as an advocate under the new covenant and he has done for reasons in the past. In the past the imparted Spirit of God bestowed gifts on human and in the case of King Saul actually caused him to become a new man.

Here is a case from Scripture:

Numbers 11:25Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

25 And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

"Vicariously" does not reveal the idea behind being credited with righteousness. Credited is because God keeps his promises and he will do what he said as long as you have faith in him and in his Son.

Hi Kerwin - Thanks for your reply and sorry for the late response. I believe I understand what you mean concerning the Spirit, but it's my understanding that He is our comforter and it's by Him were are reborn into the life of Christ (Col 3:4), and He teaches us what Jesus desires us to know (Jhn 14:26). He is also the author of the Word of God (2Tim 3:16; 2Pet 1:21) and thus the One who teaches it (1Cor 2:13).

Isn't it Jesus who is always our "advocate" (1Jhn 2:1)?

Concerning "vicariously" I use it to demonstrate that our salvation has been effected vicariously by Christ, not self!

Love in Christ

 

[kerwin]

Hi Kerwin - Thanks for your reply and sorry for the late response. I believe I understand what you mean concerning the Spirit, but it's my understanding that He is our comforter and it's by Him were are reborn into the life of Christ (Col 3:4), and He teaches us what Jesus desires us to know (Jhn 14:26). He is also the author of the Word of God (2Tim 3:16; 2Pet 1:21) and thus the One who teaches it (1Cor 2:13).

Isn't it Jesus who is always our "advocate" (1Jhn 2:1)?

Concerning "vicariously" I use it to demonstrate that our salvation has been effected vicariously by Christ, not self!

Love in Christ

Jesus is our Advocate but he calls the Spirit another Advocate; at least in some translations such as NET. I think Comforter-Advocate-Helper describe both his and Jesus' roles but the Koine Greek word does not translate into English well. I have not checked out that hypothesis.

Yes, Jesus sacrificed himself for us because he loves us and we do not have the price that we can pay it ourselves.

He does not give us an illusion of righteousness, as some teach, but instead he gives the Spirit that a believer can walk according to.

 

[kyrie-eleison]

I've never seen an example of faith and works standing alone.