Keeping Jesus' commanads is requirement for salvation

[Barrd]

Actually, that term is misrepresented. God is not giving us a license to sin. A license to do something gives us legal right, but God is against sin. What you people don't understand is that you all are filthy, rotten, disgusting sinners just like the rest of us, christian or non-christian. But yet you preach works salvation hoping your filthy works can be enough to buy your way into heaven. If you're not covered with the blood of Jesus, the lake of fire is your fate. - ATP

I thought we covered this in the other thread?
Yes, ATP...we are all filthy, rotten, disgusting sinners. Every mother's child of us.
We also know that it is this...our sin...that has separated us from God.
This situation is intolerable. God thinks so, too!
That is why He sent His Only Begotten Son...

Now, no one here is preaching "works salvation." We are all only too aware that we cannot work our way into heaven. We know that our salvation is "by faith alone, lest anyone should boast." I'm sure everyone here realizes that none of us has anything to boast about.

We are also aware that, as James tells us, faith without works is dead.
Faith...WITHOUT WORKS...is dead.
Is your faith dead, ATP?

Paul says that we ought to follow him, as he follows Jesus Christ.
Do you follow Jesus Christ, ATP?

Jesus says "If you love Me, keep My commandments."
Do you love Him, ATP?

You said it yourself, ATP...God is against sin.
Joyful is against sin. I am against sin. Many others have shown that they are against sin.
Are you against sin, ATP?


No, you can't buy your way into heaven.
But unless you repent, you can certainly sin your way to hell....

 

[ATP]

Now, no one here is preaching "works salvation."

Three posters here are preaching works salvation. Works salvation is the belief that if you do not obey God, He will throw his children into the lake of fire. That is false.

 

[Joyful]

Three posters here are preaching works salvation. Works salvation is the belief that if you do not obey God, He will throw his children into the lake of fire. That is false.

No one is preaching works salvation.
All we are saying is faith without works is dead.

BTW, no one can do good works without faith because all good things come from God.

 

[ATP]

No one is preaching works salvation.

Yes you are.

 

[Barrd]

Three posters here are preaching works salvation. Works salvation is the belief that if you do not obey God, He will throw his children into the lake of fire. That is false.

On the other thread, you posted this, from the NIV:
Jude 1:4-5 NIV For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. 5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

As I pointed out to you, when you preach that you can sin all you like, and still attain to Heaven, you are perverting the grace of God into a license for immorality.
You have the blood of those who sin in the face of God on your hands, because you encouraged them in their filthy life style.

The same verse from my own beloved KJV:
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Do you think God will turn a blind eye toward these false teachers, whom you have joined?
Not so:
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

God's own holy angels are languishing in a dark prison, awaiting the day of judgment. Do you honestly think that God will spare those who sin against Him and refuse to repent? You must know better than that.

Preaching repentance is hardly the same thing as preaching "works salvation".
Telling theives, liars, murderers, adulterers, etc, that they may indulge their pleasure with no fear of retribution, as long as the believe on Jesus Christ...
That is pure evil.
You might want to change your tune just a little, before you find yourself in the fire right along with them...

 

[Barrd]

There is one here who is a homosexual, who doesn't think he needs to repent and turn from that sin. I will not name names, you know who you are.
What ATP is preaching here is not the truth. Unless you repent and turn from your sin, you will not see Heaven.
Now, no one is saying that it will be easy. Far from it. It isn't easy for any of us. There are some who have chosen celibacy rather than sin against God. There are others who have managed to learn to live in a heterosexual relationship and be happy.
Perhaps you didn't know this, but there are heterosexuals who find it difficult to control their sexual urges, as well. Some of them have also chosen celibacy. Others have confined themselves to one partner in marriage. It isn't easy for them, either.

The thing is, we are all "born with" sin. For some reason, sex seems to be a major stumbling block for many...but there are other sins as well, that people seem to be "born with"...sins such as stealing, for instance. Shoplifting is probably more prevalent among "Christians" than divorce or adultery...just not as exciting to talk about. And it is true that there have been serial killers who, from childhood, liked to torture and kill small animals. We've all heard the phrase "born killer"...there is some truth in it.

I would not have you be one of those who finds, too late, that your sin has separated you from God.
I guess I take after my Father...
I am not willing that any should perish, but that all may come to repentance.

As He has said....He stands at the door and knocks. Won't you please let Him in?

 

[ATP]

What ATP is preaching here is not the truth. Unless you repent and turn from your sin, you will not see Heaven.

So you are saying God is a liar? Neither present nor future can separate me from Christ that is in me. Rom 8:33, 35, 38, 39 says neither..

trouble
hardship
persecution
famine
nakedness
danger or sword
death nor life
nor angels
nor rulers
nor things present nor things to come
nor powers
nor height nor depth
nor anything else in all creation

will be able to separate the elect from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 5:5 NIV And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

Rom 8:31-39 ESV What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Cor 1:30 NIV It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

The Gospel I read says that all we need to do is believe in the name of Jesus in order to obtain eternal life. Are you calling God a liar?

John 3:14-15 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

 

[Barrd]

So you are saying God is a liar? Neither present nor future can separate me from Christ that is in me. Rom 8:33, 35, 38, 39 says neither..

trouble
hardship
persecution
famine
nakedness
danger or sword
death nor life
nor angels
nor rulers
nor things present nor things to come
nor powers
nor height nor depth
nor anything else in all creation

will be able to separate the elect from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 5:5 NIV And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

Rom 8:31-39 ESV What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Cor 1:30 NIV It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

The Gospel I read says that all we need to do is believe in the name of Jesus in order to obtain eternal life. Are you calling God a liar?

John 3:14-15 NIV Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

John 3:16 NIV For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 NIV “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40 NIV For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 6:47 NIV I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Acts 13:46-48 NIV Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47 For this is what the Lord has commanded us: " 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.' " 48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

Are you calling Jesus a liar?

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Are you calling Peter a liar?


Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Perhaps you are calling Paul a liar:

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.


Repentance is vital, ATP. It is all part of being born again, and being made new. If you do have the holy spirit living within you, and you mess up and sin, the holy spirit is going to convict you. You will be pricked in your heart until you do repent. That is a major part of the holy spirit's job...to help you to conform to the spirit of Christ...to bring to your remembrance all that Jesus taught.
Remember how Jeremiah predicted that God would write His law within our hearts....and Hebrews echoes that prophecy, pretty much to the letter?
Well, that is what the holy spirit does....He writes God's law within our hearts.
It is no coincidence that God chose the Day of Pentecost to send the Holy Spirit...any more than it was a coincidence that Jesus died on the cross at approximately the same time the Passover lamb was being slain at the temple.
As the Passover celebrated the Jew's freedom from slavery, and foreshadowed our own freedom from the death which is the wages of sin....
So the Day of Pentecost celebrated the giving of the law to the Jews at Mt. Sinai, and foreshadowed the coming of the Holy Spirit to write that law on our hearts.

Our God does work in miraculous ways, my friend...

 

[ATP]

Are you calling Jesus a liar?

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Are you calling Peter a liar?


Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Perhaps you are calling Paul a liar:

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.


Repentance is vital, ATP. It is all part of being born again, and being made new. If you do have the holy spirit living within you, and you mess up and sin, the holy spirit is going to convict you. You will be pricked in your heart until you do repent. That is a major part of the holy spirit's job...to help you to conform to the spirit of Christ...to bring to your remembrance all that Jesus taught.
Remember how Jeremiah predicted that God would write His law within our hearts....and Hebrews echoes that prophecy, pretty much to the letter?
Well, that is what the holy spirit does....He writes God's law within our hearts.
It is no coincidence that God chose the Day of Pentecost to send the Holy Spirit...any more than it was a coincidence that Jesus died on the cross at approximately the same time the Passover lamb was being slain at the temple.
As the Passover celebrated the Jew's freedom from slavery, and foreshadowed our own freedom from the death which is the wages of sin....
So the Day of Pentecost celebrated the giving of the law to the Jews at Mt. Sinai, and foreshadowed the coming of the Holy Spirit to write that law on our hearts.

Our God does work in miraculous ways, my friend...

Good job sister. You just quoted repentance to nonbelievers. None of these passages are referring to believers.

 

[ATP]

Take these for example. Believing in the Gospel, not perishing, being baptized by grace through faith, and being converted are not describing a believer. A believer has already obtained these things. You are searching for truth however, and that's what's important. Shalom, ATP.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

 

[ATP]

If you do have the holy spirit living within you, and you mess up and sin, the holy spirit is going to convict you. You will be pricked in your heart until you do repent. That is a major part of the holy spirit's job...to help you to conform to the spirit of Christ...to bring to your remembrance all that Jesus taught.

I agree here, but repenting and not repenting after you're born again has nothing to do with your eternal security. If Joe Bob a born again believer repented every day for 50 years, and then committed a sin and died that night before repenting he is still going to heaven. Because Joe Bob is covered in the blood of Jesus and trusted in the Lord for His salvation. - ATP

 

[Barrd]

I agree here, but repenting and not repenting after you're born again has nothing to do with your eternal security. If Joe Bob a born again believer repented every day for 50 years, and then committed a sin and died that night before repenting he is still going to heaven. Because Joe Bob is covered in the blood of Jesus and trusted in the Lord for His salvation. - ATP

Joe Bob?
That made me giggle.
Maybe I never mentioned to you that I grew up in Upstate New York, not too far from Buffalo...but I now live in Southern Alabama, near the Florida border.

Anyway....the point would be that ol' Joe Bob knew that, when he messed up and sinned, he needed to repent. As you say, he repented every day of his life for fifty years...(poor dude died young, don't you think? I would have made him at least 70)...and then, on his last day, he sins, and dies before he can repent.
Yes, our dear brother, Joe Bob is going to heaven.
Why?
Because he had not turned his heart away from God. He knew that, when he sinned, he needed to repent. He was obedient to the gospel. He did not stubbornly insist that, since he was already "covered in the blood" that he had no need to repent...like some people think.

 

[Barrd]

Now, if ol' Joe Bob were to rely solely on the idea that, since he was "saved" he could sin all he liked, and not bother about repenting, it would be a slightly different story.
The question would be....was he ever really "saved" at all??

 

[Barrd]

Good job sister. You just quoted repentance to nonbelievers. None of these passages are referring to believers.

I'd say that's iffy...

But these three are definitely addressed to churches...people who were already established in their faith:


Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

 

[ATP]

Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Seems like Rom 8:35 NIV disagrees with you.

Rom 8:35 NIV Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

Rev 2:16 NIV Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

 

[Barrd]

Seems like Rom 8:35 NIV disagrees with you.

Rom 8:35 NIV Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

Rev 2:16 NIV Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

You do realize that you have Jesus contradicting Himself, there?
Well, you have Paul seeming to contradict Jesus, which isn't the same thing...but you get the point, I hope?

 

[ATP]

You do realize that you have Jesus contradicting Himself, there?
Well, you have Paul seeming to contradict Jesus, which isn't the same thing...but you get the point, I hope?

No silly. Your beliefs are contradicting scripture. You are following a false doctrine, and truth always comes to light. God is perfect. If God was contradictory He would be a liar. The Word of God tells me neither sword will separate me from Christ. Amen.

Rom 8:31-39 ESV What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[ewq1938]

How can this be so, Christianity did not exist before Christs resurrection

lol...of course it existed before that...it started when his ministry began. The disciples were the first Christians because they followed Christ.

 

[Barrd]

No silly. Your beliefs are contradicting scripture. You are following a false doctrine, and truth always comes to light. God is perfect. If God was contradictory He would be a liar. The Word of God tells me neither sword will separate me from Christ. Amen.

Rom 8:31-39 ESV What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If you are a born again believer, nothing can separate you from the love of Christ. No power in existence can take from the Lord what is His. His bride is safe in His arms.
All of this is true...for those who have committed themselves to Him...those who love Him and keep His commandments...those who have humbled themselves to cry "Lord, be merciful to me, a sinner!"...those who repent, and turn from their sin to live a life that is pleasing to Him.
And He will not lose a single one. He is even now preparing a place for them, that where He is, they may also be.

However, there are false Christians...those who think to say to Him "Lord, Lord," and brag of the many wonderful things that they have done in His name. You know them...haughty, holier than thou types, who think that anything they do will be accepted, because they said a prayer, or got baptized according to just the right formula...yes, even some who think that, because they worship on the "right day".
I tell you that for those who belong to Jesus, EVERY day is a day of worship...more....their entire lives will be an act of worship!
Will they repent if they detect any sin in themselves? Yes, sir! They are those who have dedicated themselves to Him, to follow Him, and to bring others to Him. They do not want any sin of theirs to come between them and their Lord, or to be a stumbling block that might keep anyone else from Him.

As for those false "Christians"...their belief is not going to be enough to keep them out of the fire, because their belief was not strong enough to bring them to repentance. They will continue in their sin, proudly thinking that Christ, Who was spit upon and tortured, beaten beyond recognition, and nailed to a cross...all for their sakes, will accept them in their iniquity...but He will tell them that He never knew them.

You will know His disciples by their love....

 

[Barrd]

lol...of course it existed before that...it started when his ministry began. The disciples were the first Christians because the followed Christ.

AMEN!
The moment John the Baptist said
"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sins of the world", Christianity was born.

Nay, even before that!
A young girl boldly told an angel that she was the handmaiden of the Lord.
And the power of the Holy Spirit overshadowed her.
And the rest is history...

^_^