Keeping Jesus' commanads is requirement for salvation

[Joyful]

Tell me what the difference is here? How is it that the O/T believers could not keep the commands yet the N/T believers can. Is it by works that they keep the commands of God or by faith? :huh:

Moses' law is ceremonial, sin offering and many, many laws. Have your read book of Deuteronomy?

Jesus' law is mostly about the Ten commands. And He explained it in detail how we love God and love one another in His Gospels, mostly in sermon on the mount.

 

[Joyful]

Seem to me we have to be wise and be doer of faith.

Yes, that's what Jesus says in many ways.

 

[Angelina]

I have been a believer for over 30 years and have read the bible every year from Genesis to Revelation. Tell me, do we keep the commands of God by works or by faith? :huh:

 

[Joyful]

I have been a believer for over 30 years and have read the bible every year from Genesis to Revelation. Tell me, do we keep the commands of God by works or by faith? :huh:

And you still cannot see the difference between Jesus' law and Moses' law?

James says it simply and clearly, faith without deeds is dead.

Dead faith cannot save you, friend.

 

[ATP]

And you still cannot see the difference between Jesus' law and Moses' law?

James says it simply and clearly, faith without deeds is dead.

Dead faith cannot save you, friend.

And you still cannot see the difference between the OT law and God's grace. The commandments in the OT are not the commandments given under grace.

 

[Angelina]

Joyful,
Keeping the commandments of God/Jesus is not a requirement of salvation. If you genuinely believe the gospel message preached/read to you and confess Jesus as Lord whom God raised up and seated him at his right hand, then you are saved. We have been saved by grace through faith not by trying in our own strength to keep his commands

Keeping Christ's commands are part of our "growing in respect to that salvation". It is part of our 101 discipleship course of becoming more Christ like but it's not connected to being saved by grace through faith which is a free gift from God.

 

[Joyful]

Joyful,
Keeping the commandments of God/Jesus is not a requirement of salvation.

Ok, we are all entitled to our opinions.


good day.

 

[Joyful]

And you still cannot see the difference between the OT law and God's grace. The commandments in the OT are not the commandments given under grace.

I accept your opinion,

good day.

 

[ATP]

I accept your opinion,

good day.

Angelina said it well in post 26. When you read the NT Gospel as works salvation you are swimming upstream against the current brother. Let's focus on the word "seal" first. Why do you think this seal of God can be broken for example. There are three things to focus on in Eph 4:30 NIV. Scripture tells us...

(1.) Do not grieve the Holy Spirit
(2.) with whom you were sealed
(3.) for the day of redemption

(1.) Do not grieve. Take a look at Eph 4:30 NLT version and Eph 4:30 GWT version. Now the way I see it, NON-OSAS gives us a spirit of fear, fear that if we don't repent daily or obey Christ every minute of the day we are in danger of losing salvation and being thrown into the lake of fire. God clearly states that we no longer have the spirit of fear Rom 8:15 ESV, 2 Tim 1:7 ESV, Heb 2:14-15 ESV, 1 John 4:18 ESV.

Eph 4:30 NLT And do not bring sorrow to God's Holy Spirit by the way you live. Remember, he has identified you as his own, guaranteeing that you will be saved on the day of redemption.

Eph 4:30 GWT Don't give God's Holy Spirit any reason to be upset with you. He has put his seal on you for the day you will be set free [from the world of sin].

(2.) The word sealed here means sphragizó. Now, we aren't talking about a seal given to us from Humpty Dumpty. This is a seal that comes straight from God the Father, the creator of the universe. Who is the owner of the seal? God the Father!

4972 sphragízō (from 4973 /sphragís, "a seal") – properly, to seal (affix) with a signet ring or other instrument to stamp (a roller or seal), i.e. to attest ownership, authorizing (validating) what is sealed.

4972 /sphragízō ("to seal") signifies ownership and the full security carried by the backing (full authority) of the owner. "Sealing" in the ancient world served as a "legal signature" which guaranteed the promise (contents) of what was sealed.

(3.) The day of redemption here means apolutrósis, a release effected by payment of ransom. When we die and meet the Lord at the first resurrection, the Lord will grant us release and deliverance from our sin nature inside a sinful world. We are sealed from God the Father until that time comes.

- ATP

 

[Angelina]

I think I need a nap

 

[Joyful]

ATP,

It is useless or meaningless to argue the way we are doing.

We are not budging in our position. I have said more than enough.

I am not respond to yours in this regard.

YOur position is OSAS or grace only or faith only, mine is faith without deeds is dead.

We just have to wait what Jesus says in the Lord's day.

good day.

 

[ATP]

We just have to wait what Jesus says in the Lord's day.

I understand Joyful, but the Lord through His Word said we don't have to wait until we die. We can know now..

Phil 1:6 NIV being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

Shalom, ATP.

 

[Barrd]

ATP, you seriously started another thread to repeat all of this? I thought the question was settled...
Christians still keep the ten commandments...the only difference is that now we have grace.
But that does not mean that we may sin with impunity and still expect to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jesus says "If you love Me, keep My commandments." How do we know that we love Him? Obviously, because we keep His commandments. Those who refuse to keep His commandments are those who do not love Him. They will say to Him, "Lord, Lord..." But He will say "Go away from Me, you workers of iniquity! I never knew you."
I can almost hear their dismay..."But, but, but...we believed in You!" "You did not love Me. Devils also believe....and tremble."

Jesus is accepting repentant sinners who love Him right now.
Tomorrow may be too late...

 

[mjrhealth]

ATP, you seriously started another thread to repeat all of this?

Actually joyfull did. And why are you so obsessed with sin??? Funny that the only ones who spwak of willingly sinning are those who put them selves under the law. If you are so obsessed with sin its because,'

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

hey will say to Him, "Lord, Lord..." But He will say "Go away from Me, you workers of iniquity! I never knew you."
I can almost hear their dismay..."But, but, but...we believed in You!" "You did not love Me. Devils also believe....and tremble."

Yes you will be suprised.

Joh 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
Joh 9:37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Joh 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
Joh 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

See the law is not our master Love is. God is Love.

In all His Love

 

[mjrhealth]

Christians still keep the ten commandments

How can this be so, Christianity did not exist before Christs resurrection, and Jesus never gave us the law. Again His commandment is to Love, why is Love such a problem??

In all His Love

 

[Angelina]

Amen!

Matthew 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

There is only two commandments that we need to keep and they are both about love.

Romans 13
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness, “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Peace!

 

[Bible_Gazer]

Can you believe and not be converted ?

Just believe that Jesus exist save you ?
or
Excepting Jesus into your life and everything about Jesus including what he says we must do for salvation, the whole bundle package ?

 

[Joyful]

Actually joyfull did. And why are you so obsessed with sin???

[/QUOTE]God's people take sin seriously and you call it obsessed?

then so be it.

Jesus died for our sins, we better strive not to sin.

Jesus was not sent to give us permission or license to sin.

Jesus came down to give us power to overcome our sins.

 

[Barrd]

Thank you, Joyful.

Do people not realize that the Ten Commandments are all about love? Loving God and loving our neighbor...Jesus says that on these two commandments....love God and love one another..."hang all the law and the prophets".
Loving God...worshiping Him only, not keeping any idols, not abusing His name, keeping His Sabbath holy...
Loving our neighbor....letting him keep the Lord's Sabbath (as in not asking him to work for you), obviously, no murder, or adultery, no stealing, no nasty lies about one another...no sitting around longing for what doesn't belong to you...

For the life of me, I can not figure out how it is that people who claim to be Christians can object to these things. Certainly, no Christian would ever say that it is just fine to worship other gods, or worship idols? Certainly, no Christian would ever claim that using God's name as a curse is nothing to be ashamed of? Surely, no one here would dare to claim that Christians are free to murder, or commit adultery, or steal, or spread filthy gossip? Don't we all agree that it is better to appreciate what we have than to long for what we do not have?
Yet when we say that Christians are to keep the ten commandments, we are accused of being "obsessed with sin". Didn't Jesus say, "If you love Me, keep My commandments"?
Jesus...you know....the Man Who hung on the cross for us? Do you love Him? If you do, why would you not keep His commandments? Is it really so much for Him to ask, seeing that He laid down His life for you? Have you even considered the suffering He did for you? Did He do that so that you could shoplift at WalMart, or gossip about the new girl at work?

Perhaps some of us have forgotten that the wages of sin is death.
Perhaps there are some who can't get past some sin in their lives...I have known "Christians" who twisted the scripture in order to justify such things as an addiction to pornography, or adultery, or homosexuality...why is it that sex is such a stumbling block for us?

It is as Joyful says...Jesus was not sent to give us permission or license to sin. My goodness, that is NOT love!

Jesus came down to give us the power to overcome our sins! In fact, He died to give us that power!
Now, THAT, boys and girls, is LOVE!!!!!

 

[ATP]

Jesus was not sent to give us permission or license to sin.

Actually, that term is misrepresented. God is not giving us a license to sin. A license to do something gives us legal right, but God is against sin. What you people don't understand is that you all are filthy, rotten, disgusting sinners just like the rest of us, christian or non-christian. But yet you preach works salvation hoping your filthy works can be enough to buy your way into heaven. If you're not covered with the blood of Jesus, the lake of fire is your fate. - ATP