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King James Version Only...?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by LC627, Aug 30, 2020.

  1. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    So, Jesus and Lucifer are both called the morning star in your Bible.

    Great, just great!
     
  2. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is improved understanding to redefine when the original definitions are shown to be wrong.

    For instance, in today's devotional reading from the NSRV Cultural Bible, it delved into word plays, which the ancient Hebrews were fond of doing but don't translate well from one language to another. As idioms are learned in our language and culture of the ancients, so too does our understanding of what they wrote and what it meant to the authors.
     
  3. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    Now you get to know how God feels about His word being handled by modern redefinitionists....


    For instance,....WHAT HE REALLY MEANS IS...


    in today's devotional reading from the NSRV Cultural Bible, it delved into word plays,....WHICH CAN ALSO MEAN THIS AND THIS AND THIS....



    which the ancient Hebrews were fond of doing but don't translate well from one language to another....IN THE ENGLISH HE MEANS TO SAY...



    As idioms are learned in our language and culture of the ancients, so too does our understanding of what they wrote and what it meant to the authors....THIS CAN ONLY BE UNDERSTOOD BY US AS PHD PROFESSIONALS. PLEASE READ OUR FOOTNOTES ABOUT WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAID.
     
  4. Deborah_

    Deborah_ Well-Known Member

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    No, my Bible doesn't have the word "Lucifer" at all. The devil's name is Satan, not Lucifer. Lucifer was the Latin astronomical name for the morning star; we call it Venus, so why not translate it as Venus in Isaiah 14:12? It would make just as much sense!

    It's by no means certain that the Isaiah passage is referring to Satan anyway (that's a matter of interpretation); but even if it is, wouldn't it be just typical of the devil to style himself by one of Christ's titles?

    If it bothers you, than the logical thing to do is to stop calling the devil Lucifer - then there won't be any confusion between him and Christ.

    But if "morning star" can't be applied to both, then since that is what the Hebrew text does actually say, it must be the interpretation that's wrong.
     
  5. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    So Jesus and Satan are both called the morning star in your Bible?
     
  6. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    1) Just about everybody knows the word "Lucifer" as another name for Satan. The word "Lucifer" is found one time in the King James Bible.

    Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


    (2) But what about the NIV? The word "Lucifer" is clean, bald-headed gone and now this creature is identified as the "morning star". Lucifer is the "morning star" in the NIV.

    How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!


    (3) So we know that in the NIV the "morning star" is a negative, evil figure. Right? He was fallen from heaven. He was cast down to the earth. Can we find the "morning star" anywhere else in the NIV? Yes! The following passages in the NIV show the "morning star" as Jesus Christ! But the NIV just called the fallen creature of Isaiah 14:12 "morning star". Lucifer AND Jesus are ONE in the NIV! Lord have mercy, Jesus! Help me, Lord.

    NIV: Revelation 22:16,
    "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you [1] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

    NIV: 2 Peter 1:19,
    And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

    NIV: Revelation 2:28--
    I will also give him the morning star.

    NIV Reader, can you say to the "lord" OUT LOUD,

    "Oh, lord, Thank you for giving me the NIV.
    It is proper to call Jesus a fallen creature.
    Jesus and Lucifer are the same.
    Thank you, father."


    If you can, the lord and father
    you are praying to is--SATAN.

    NIV Calls Lucifer
     
  7. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    That is very interesting. I did know that they were both called the Morning Star, but was always confused as to why. Didn't realize it was just in the NIV. I've discovered countless changes the NIV makes from the KJV over the years.

    Do any other translations follow that pattern with the Morning Star verses?
     
  8. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    This has always been a favorite of mine because it's so ridiculous.

    Proverbs 18:1 in the KJV states that it is a good thing, and very wise, for a man to separate himself. In the NIV it completely alters that 180 degrees calling the person unfriendly, selfish, ignorant and quarrelsome.

    Go figure.

    ETA: Interesting that this forum uses a similar translation as the NIV.
     
  9. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    I have not checked, but I know the NIV is widely used as a corrupt version with such comparisons. Just thought I would let the forum in on it.
     
  10. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    This video is a must see....





    You will lose sleep over it.
     
  11. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    Watching it now.

    The Prophecy Club is one of, if not THE, most legit organizations I've ever come across in many years. Thought they were gone actually.

    There have been many outspoken advocates of Truth that presented there that have had all records of their videos wiped from the internet entirely. Fritz Springmeier was one of the earliest. Wish I could remember more of the greats. John Todd was another one exposing the satanic music industry. Many great warriors for Truth came through that venue. Rob Skiba was another more recent one.
     
    Truther likes this.
  12. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    That video is great. She goes into the 666 symbol of the Triquetra and its origins.
    [​IMG]
    Christendom needs to learn that symbol. It is everywhere. On Bibles and Churches galore.
    (Hint ^^^ Hint ^^^ Hint ^^^)

    And no, it never meant the Catholic Trinity when it was created, nor when it is ever used.
     
    Truther likes this.
  13. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    It’s also on one of my former Led Zeppelin albums before I got saved.
     
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  14. Deborah_

    Deborah_ Well-Known Member

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    The morning star is just another name for the planet that we call Venus. Anyone who is determined to identify the morning star with Jesus every time it's mentioned appears to believe that Jesus is the planet Venus. (And of course Lucifer - in Latin - is also a name of the planet Venus, so the devil is the planet Venus too!)

    Much simpler (and more sensible) to regard "morning star" as a metaphor. That avoids all these problems, and enables you to accept the Hebrew text as it is without having to mis-translate it.
     
  15. GEN2REV

    GEN2REV Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Venus is just another name for the enemy we call Lucifer.
     
  16. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    You only show your Biblical illiteracy by that, and that by your following false teachers. Yet it still is a lot of your fault for not understanding, because it's still your choice to listen to false teachers.

    Because of those you listen to, you have no clue as to rightly dividing the timelines given in that Revelation 19 chapter...

    Revelation 19:1-9 =

    The time just after the "day of the Lord" of Christ's future 2nd coming to end the Revelation Babylon, which will happen on the 'last day' of this present world. And the smoke of her burning rises there. And then His supper with His faithful elect, which is on earth at His return, per Zechariah 14, Isaiah 25, and even Revelation 22:14-15.

    Revelation 19:10 =
    Reverts to the present with the angel giving John the prophecy, and John by mistake bows to the angel, and the angel says to not do it.

    Revelation 19:11-21 =

    The 'day' of Christ's future 2nd coming to earth on the "day of the Lord" to fight with His army from Heaven. That is the day when Jesus returns to gather His faithful Church. And Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 that will be after the "great tribulation".


    Just as many of the Books of God's Old Testament prophets has variable timelines in it, even between 2 verses at times (like Zechariah 9:9 for Christ's 1st coming, and Zechariah 9:10 about Christ's 2nd coming), so does Christ's Book of Revelation have these kind of variable timelines. Because you don't know this, it shows you haven't studied that much of The Bible, but instead have chosen to heed a bunch of doctrines from men (the false Pre-tribulational Rapture theory specifically) thus my remark about your Biblical illiteracy.

    So you can just get mad at me for saying this, and go back to being Biblically illiterate and heeding those men who don't really care about your soul, and have deceived their own souls, or you get down to real Bible study asking God's help in understanding instead of relying on those men.

    Moreover, more proof of where and when Christ's supper will be that He promised to hold with His disciples when He returns, is also shown by the event called the casting into the "outer darkness". In the story of Matthew 8 that the children of the kingdom that were bid to His supper that refused, they are to be cast to the "outer darkness" where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Matt 8:11-12
    11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
    12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    KJV

    Per Matthew 25, even the "unprofitable servant" is to be cast into that "outer darkness". So what is that "outer darkness"? It is the place outside the gates of the holy city AFTER Jesus has returned to this earth per Zechariah 14 and Acts 1.

    Rev 22:14-15
    14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

    KJV
     
  17. Desire Of All Nations

    Desire Of All Nations Active Member

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    The KJV being the most commonly used bible doesn't make it the most accurate translation. A lot of passages like Jhn 14:2 are poorly rendered(in the case of Acts 12:4 and 1 Jhn 5:8-7, translators even willfully changed the passages), and words were all too often inserted and rearranged by men who thought they knew how the passage should be read(2 Pet. 2:5 and Rom. 10:4 are prime examples). Plenty of people would argue that the NASB is a superior translation.
    Jeremiah says whoever places this kind of trust in man is cursed. Most of these "scholars" are deceived fools who suffer from a case of intellectual vanity. When comparing the original Hebrew and Greek against translated bibles, it's easy to see that they incorrectly rendered too many important passages.

    Just to prove to you and everyone else in this thread how deceived and arrogant these people are, translated bibles tend to overlook the fact that the original Hebrew shows Gen. 1:2 was the result of Satan's rebellion. Instead of correctly rendering the words "tohu" and "bohu" to properly portray this extremely important piece of history, translated bibles portray God creating Earth in this uninhabitable state. Another great example is Gen. 1:3 where the original Hebrew basically shows God cleaning up the atmosphere so the light from the sun could reach the planet. Translated bibles however, imply light didn't exist until that moment.

    The inspired Hebrew shows that all of Gen. 1 is describing God recreating the original conditions of Earth so human beings could live here. The Bible itself says this universe has existed for millions of years, if not longer, but religious people have problems believing that because they place too much trust in scholars.
    It's not impossible at all. Anyone with a thorough knowledge of the Hebrew and Greek can do it, as long as they don't allow theological biases to cloud their work. It only seems impossible because translators tend to insert their own beliefs into the translations instead of objectively honoring what the inspired text says.
     
  18. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Well don't you think those who prefer the KJV are also putting their trust in the 'scholars' who did its translation? They were only fallible men after all.
     
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  19. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Your contempt for superior knowledge than an archaic, half a millennia old work by corrupt trinitarians is noted.

    In your view, it is not possible to learn more than our ancestors knew. We fundamentally disagree on the role of knowledge in the human experience. Make a blessed day!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2022
  20. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Deborah_ I do appreciate the KJV, although I don't make outlandish claims. It IS a good version, imho.
     
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