Kingdom of God is Within You

[twinc]

You mean, of course, staying closet to God.


Of course God is everywhere, so if there is a gap in communication between one of us and Him, the problem is never on His side.

I would say it is where the "new man" is, but actually it is wherever God says that it is.

Well I work on surrendering daily to the lead of the Holy Spirit so that the temple of me would remain clean...

[/QUOTE]


by their fruits you shall know them - if only humans would stop blaming the Holy Spirit which for most it seems is now almost impossible to do as the unforgiveable sin of blasphemy imho - twinc

 

[amadeus]

by their fruits you shall know them - if only humans would stop blaming the Holy Spirit which for most it seems is now almost impossible to do as the unforgiveable sin of blasphemy imho - twinc

Yes, by their fruits they are to be known to those with eyes to see, but how many are really able to recognize the fruits when they are manifested or show that they appreciated that which is correctly [according to God] manifested?

 

[forrestcupp]

I have to disagree with you on those underlined points. When you have manifestations in Churches like the body jerking, uncontrollable laughter, making animal noises, falling backwards, and speaking gibberish, being done also in religions (like Hinduism in the video) that do not preach Christ Jesus, then it's easy to know those manifestations are not... of The Holy Spirit. It's as simple as that.

A deceived brother can be exhibiting those kind of manifestations and think it's of The Holy Spirit (like in the video) and be totally duped, so by just discerning his character is not enough to tell where those manifestations are coming from. The way we are to discern is by staying in God's Word by The Holy Spirit giving us understanding. We were well warned about signs and wonders for the last days (Matt.24:24; 2 Thess.2:9-10; Rev.13:13-14).

Just so I make myself clear on this, brethren believers on Christ Jesus CAN... exhibit manifestations from the devil IF they allow false prophets to come in among them, trusting in those false prophets, signs and wonders.

Well, we're just going to have to disagree, I guess. I gave you a couple of real examples where the Bible, itself, talks about spiritual/supernatural gifts that look extremely similar in action, but one is evil, and the other is good, based on the motives behind them (prophecy vs divination). And as for the "gibberish" you're talking about, the Bible has a lot to say about tongues. It says it's a gift of the Spirit. So I might be careful with that one.

 

[Davy]

Well, we're just going to have to disagree, I guess. I gave you a couple of real examples where the Bible, itself, talks about spiritual/supernatural gifts that look extremely similar in action, but one is evil, and the other is good, based on the motives behind them (prophecy vs divination). And as for the "gibberish" you're talking about, the Bible has a lot to say about tongues. It says it's a gift of the Spirit. So I might be careful with that one.

Thanks for the warning, but I don't need it. God's Word already showed me emphatically how... the cloven tongue on Pentecost manifested (Acts 2). It wasn't as gibberish that no one can understand. The true cloven tongue manifested as known languages of the peoples that were present. Each person even heard in their own dialect of their own region of birth. God knows how we speak and hear.

So I feel The Holy Spirit wants me... to give the warning once again:

1 Tim 4:1
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
KJV

 

[forrestcupp]

Thanks for the warning, but I don't need it. God's Word already showed me emphatically how... the cloven tongue on Pentecost manifested (Acts 2). It wasn't as gibberish that no one can understand. The true cloven tongue manifested as known languages of the peoples that were present. Each person even heard in their own dialect of their own region of birth. God knows how we speak and hear.

So I feel The Holy Spirit wants me... to give the warning once again:

1 Tim 4:1
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
KJV

So out of everything the Bible says about tongues, you're going to use one example and try to say that's the only way it works? What about how 1 Corinthians 13 talks about the tongues of angels? 1 Cor. 14 talks a lot about tongues and how in another case its purpose is to speak to God. I could write a book about it, but I don't have time at the moment.

 

[bbyrd009]

Our Lord Jesus was pointing to the future resurrection when He said the Kingdom of God is within you.

wait, what?

lovin it til then tho

So obviously today, that change has not happened yet, for it will occur on the day of Christ's return.

oh He's back bro, the change is waiting for you, you are not waiting for it wadr

 

[bbyrd009]

But the mystic thinks he can make that change without Christ Jesus, and achieve nirvana. Be very careful brethren when you hear others speak that way, thinking the kingdom of God within you means just a spirit thing inside our inner being, because those who practice the occult arts think that very thing, that it's just a spirit thing inside us, and that it can be developed through spiritual exercises, meditation and incense, chanting mantras and ceremonial ritual.

imo do whatever it takes to change your mind, as they are likely doing, and trust that if a discipline bears no fruit it will not live for long. Yoga has waaay outlived Phrenology, for an example. Now, are many "mystics" just self-aggrandizers in a jacket? sure. But imo use the "works meet for rebound" test, and anyone that is suspicious of Yoga--for an example--just say so, and i will show you some pictures of 80-90 year old ppl brought back to what you will admit can only be called "Life."

trust that God will guide you in these, and you will get clear indications if the discipline you are investigating will not bear any fruit.

Now are there yoga ppl who seek some Godless enlightenment? Certainly, but that can also be said of Christianity, too right

iow at least suspect that anything the religious condemn might contain some seeds of truth, and let the Spirit be your guide imo

 

[Davy]

So out of everything the Bible says about tongues, you're going to use one example and try to say that's the only way it works? What about how 1 Corinthians 13 talks about the tongues of angels? 1 Cor. 14 talks a lot about tongues and how in another case its purpose is to speak to God. I could write a book about it, but I don't have time at the moment.

Apostle Paul was not talking about an 'unknown' tongue in those 1 Corinthians 12 thru 14 chapters. If you'll look further in the Greek manuscripts, the KJV "unknown" word was added by the KJV translators. The actual word is just glossa in the Greek, which means 'languages'.

In the following verse Paul was speaking of the gift of tongues being about those given to speak or interpret different languages of the world. For example, the English actor Peter Ustinov was fluent in something like twelve languages. Some have a knack for study of languages, it comes easy to them, and that's the gift from The Holy Spirit Paul was talking about. Divers kinds means different languages of the world, not the cloven tongue of Pentecost which isn't learned.

1 Cor 12:10
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
KJV

1 Cor 13:1
13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
KJV

Here above is the verse you're talking about. The cloven tongue can easily be called a tongue of angels, because per Zephaniah 3, God said He is going to return us to "a pure language" so that we all serve Him with one consent. But that's not to happen until after... Christ's return:

Zeph 3:8-9
8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
KJV

The cloven tongue spoken at Pentecost is an example of that "pure language" that at one time before the tower of Babel, all nations spoke and perfectly understood each other.

So in reality, the more one looks into this cloven tongue matter in God's Word, the more it points to a tongue that is to be perfectly understood by 'everyone' present that hears it. And that is exactly how it manifested to the peoples on Pentecost.

Acts 2:4
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
KJV

According to that, the Apostles spoke other languages (glossa), as The Holy Spirit gave them to speak. They didn't speak gibberish, nor did the peoples hear gibberish. They heard their own languages of birth:


Acts 2:6-8
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
KJV

There's even a perfect alternation in the Greek which is a Holy Spirit marking, sealing God's Truth as to what was actually spoken on Pentecost:

Acts 2:3 - "tongues" = Greek glossa (languages)
" 2:4 - "other tongues" = Greek glossa (languages)
" 2:6 - "language" = Greek dialektos (dialect)
" 2:8 - "tongue" = Greek dialektos (dialect)
" 2:11 - "tongues" = Greek glossa (languages)
" 2:26 - "tongue" = Greek glossa (language)
(from KJV and a Strong's)

So the alternation in the manuscripts is:

a. languages
a. languages
b. dialects
b. dialects
a. languages
a. languages

 

[Davy]

....
1 Cor. 14 talks a lot about tongues and how in another case its purpose is to speak to God. I could write a book about it, but I don't have time at the moment.

In the 1 Cor.14 chapter, scratch the word "unknown" in the KJV Bible. It was added by the translators. It is not in the Greek manuscripts.

1 Cor 14:2-3
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
KJV

The word "unknown" is not in the Greek manuscripts, so that cannot be used there. Paul didn't say it.

What was Paul really talking about there? Not the cloven tongue of Pentecost, but in another language that no one present can undertand. Someone who comes into the Church and tries to prophesy in a language no one present there understands is like he is just speaking in the air with only God understanding him, even though he may be prophesying a prophecy from God.

Then Paul makes plain what it means to prophesy in the next verse; prophesy means to speak under divine inspiration by The Holy Spirit in words to be understood, so the congregation is edified, exhorted, and comforted.

1 Cor 14:5-6
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
KJV

Once again, the Greek word for that "with tongues" is glossa, meaning known languages of the world. Paul is not talking about the cloven tongue of Pentecost there. He is speaking of diverse tongues, meaning different languages of the world, not an unknown tongue.

 

[twinc]

In the 1 Cor.14 chapter, scratch the word "unknown" in the KJV Bible. It was added by the translators. It is not in the Greek manuscripts.

1 Cor 14:2-3
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
KJV

The word "unknown" is not in the Greek manuscripts, so that cannot be used there. Paul didn't say it.

What was Paul really talking about there? Not the cloven tongue of Pentecost, but in another language that no one present can undertand. Someone who comes into the Church and tries to prophesy in a language no one present there understands is like he is just speaking in the air with only God understanding him, even though he may be prophesying a prophecy from God.

Then Paul makes plain what it means to prophesy in the next verse; prophesy means to speak under divine inspiration by The Holy Spirit in words to be understood, so the congregation is edified, exhorted, and comforted.

1 Cor 14:5-6
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
KJV

Once again, the Greek word for that "with tongues" is glossa, meaning known languages of the world. Paul is not talking about the cloven tongue of Pentecost there. He is speaking of diverse tongues, meaning different languages of the world, not an unknown tongue.

here is the reason why Charismatics like Born again is just another latter day Protestant scam imho - twinc

 

[forrestcupp]

In the 1 Cor.14 chapter, scratch the word "unknown" in the KJV Bible. It was added by the translators. It is not in the Greek manuscripts.

1 Cor 14:2-3
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
KJV

The word "unknown" is not in the Greek manuscripts, so that cannot be used there. Paul didn't say it.

What was Paul really talking about there? Not the cloven tongue of Pentecost, but in another language that no one present can undertand. Someone who comes into the Church and tries to prophesy in a language no one present there understands is like he is just speaking in the air with only God understanding him, even though he may be prophesying a prophecy from God.

Then Paul makes plain what it means to prophesy in the next verse; prophesy means to speak under divine inspiration by The Holy Spirit in words to be understood, so the congregation is edified, exhorted, and comforted.

1 Cor 14:5-6
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
KJV

Once again, the Greek word for that "with tongues" is glossa, meaning known languages of the world. Paul is not talking about the cloven tongue of Pentecost there. He is speaking of diverse tongues, meaning different languages of the world, not an unknown tongue.

Trust me. I've spent a lot of time studying a lot of Greek, including the word glossa. I know that it simply means "language." I also know that you're glossan over a lot of scriptures. (pun intended )

The issue is a lack of understanding about how communication works. Communication is a two way conversation. One way speeches are called monologues. Tongues are forms of communication with God. On one side, you have speaking in tongues (with interpretation), which is when God communicating with you. But you also have something the Bible calls praying in tongues, which is when we communicate back to God. I'll get to biblical references that even show that when you're praying in tongues, your mind is unfruitful, which means you don't understand what you're praying (there are other benefits). So why would God have you pray in some other earthly language that you don't know? He wouldn't. Anyway, some scriptural references:

1 Corinthians 12:30 implies that not everyone speaks in tongues. Yet Mark 16:17 in context implies that any believer can speak with new tongues. Does the Bible contradict itself? No, the answer is that not everyone can speak prophetic tongues from God to the people, but every believer has the capability of receiving the gift to pray in tongues to God through the Holy Spirit. Of course not all will, but all can if they desire it.

1 Corinthians 14:14-15 establishes a couple of things. First it establishes that the term "praying in the spirit" is the equivalent of the term "praying in tongues." The verses establish that even though it doesn't profit you mentally, it does profit you spiritually, therefore it is good to pray and sing with both your mind and your spirit, which the latter was established as meaning in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:2 establishes that speaking in tongues is not meant for speaking to men, but speaking to God. So either the Bible contradicts itself, or this verse is talking about praying to God in tongues.

Ephesians 6:18 is the end of the spiritual warfare/armor of God passage, and it talks about the benefit of being able to pray in the spirit in spiritual battles. We've already established that praying in the spirit is the equivalent of praying in tongues.

Romans 8:26-27 teaches us that one of the purposes is that the Holy Spirit knows the will of God, and He prays through us when we don't know how to pray.

1 Corinthians 14:4 teaches that speaking in tongues edifies oneself. I took 4 years of Spanish, and I can tell you that speaking in Spanish (as an English speaker) does not edify myself. Besides, the context is talking about praying in tongues.

Jude 1:20-21 teaches us that praying in the spirit builds up our faith and keeps us in the love of God.

You'll never hear me say that you have to pray in tongues to get to heaven. And you can believe what you want. But as someone who has not only spent a lot of time studying the Word about it, but has also experienced the benefits, you're really not going to convince me otherwise.

 

[twinc]

Trust me. I've spent a lot of time studying a lot of Greek, including the word glossa. I know that it simply means "language." I also know that you're glossan over a lot of scriptures. (pun intended )

The issue is a lack of understanding about how communication works. Communication is a two way conversation. One way speeches are called monologues. Tongues are forms of communication with God. On one side, you have speaking in tongues (with interpretation), which is when God communicating with you. But you also have something the Bible calls praying in tongues, which is when we communicate back to God. I'll get to biblical references that even show that when you're praying in tongues, your mind is unfruitful, which means you don't understand what you're praying (there are other benefits). So why would God have you pray in some other earthly language that you don't know? He wouldn't. Anyway, some scriptural references:

1 Corinthians 12:30 implies that not everyone speaks in tongues. Yet Mark 16:17 in context implies that any believer can speak with new tongues. Does the Bible contradict itself? No, the answer is that not everyone can speak prophetic tongues from God to the people, but every believer has the capability of receiving the gift to pray in tongues to God through the Holy Spirit. Of course not all will, but all can if they desire it.

1 Corinthians 14:14-15 establishes a couple of things. First it establishes that the term "praying in the spirit" is the equivalent of the term "praying in tongues." The verses establish that even though it doesn't profit you mentally, it does profit you spiritually, therefore it is good to pray and sing with both your mind and your spirit, which the latter was established as meaning in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:2 establishes that speaking in tongues is not meant for speaking to men, but speaking to God. So either the Bible contradicts itself, or this verse is talking about praying to God in tongues.

Ephesians 6:18 is the end of the spiritual warfare/armor of God passage, and it talks about the benefit of being able to pray in the spirit in spiritual battles. We've already established that praying in the spirit is the equivalent of praying in tongues.

Romans 8:26-27 teaches us that one of the purposes is that the Holy Spirit knows the will of God, and He prays through us when we don't know how to pray.

1 Corinthians 14:4 teaches that speaking in tongues edifies oneself. I took 4 years of Spanish, and I can tell you that speaking in Spanish (as an English speaker) does not edify myself. Besides, the context is talking about praying in tongues.

Jude 1:20-21 teaches us that praying in the spirit builds up our faith and keeps us in the love of God.

You'll never hear me say that you have to pray in tongues to get to heaven. And you can believe what you want. But as someone who has not only spent a lot of time studying the Word about it, but has also experienced the benefits, you're really not going to convince me otherwise.

how have we arrived here from the original 'kingdom of heaven within' - still looking for an answer as to where exactly 'within' is - twinc

 

[amadeus]

here is the reason why Charismatics like Born again is just another latter day Protestant scam imho - twinc

I have known more than one Catholic who also spoke in tongues. God is no respecter or church or denomination. Some people who disagree with something or do not have a certain gift from God will readily label it as false. There are certainly false tongues even as there is certainly an anti-Christ. If a person does not know for sure which is from God and which is not, it might be better to remain silent:

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecc 3:1

"A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak" Ecc 3:7

 

[twinc]

I have known more than one Catholic who also spoke in tongues. God is no respecter or church or denomination. Some people who disagree with something or do not have a certain gift from God will readily label it as false. There are certainly false tongues even as there is certainly an anti-Christ. If a person does not know for sure which is from God and which is not, it might be better to remain silent:

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecc 3:1

"A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak" Ecc 3:7

a time to keep silent and a time to speak = see 1Cor 13:8 - twinc

 

[Davy]

Trust me. I've spent a lot of time studying a lot of Greek, including the word glossa. I know that it simply means "language." I also know that you're glossan over a lot of scriptures. (pun intended )

How can I trust you when I've already seen your examples of twisting what Apostle Paul wrote to try and fit your belief that the cloven tongue of Pentecost is the same gibberish tongue heard today that only a few claim to understand? I stand by The Word of God as the measure of all things, and that is where my trust lay. The Holy Spirit will always... be in alignment with God's Holy Writ, no exceptions.

The issue is a lack of understanding about how communication works. Communication is a two way conversation. One way speeches are called monologues. Tongues are forms of communication with God. On one side, you have speaking in tongues (with interpretation), which is when God communicating with you.

Irrelevant. God didn't give us rules of communication, except that we are not to listen to wizards and spirits that peep, nor those who go after them.

But you also have something the Bible calls praying in tongues, which is when we communicate back to God. I'll get to biblical references that even show that when you're praying in tongues, your mind is unfruitful, which means you don't understand what you're praying (there are other benefits). So why would God have you pray in some other earthly language that you don't know? He wouldn't. Anyway, some scriptural references:

1 Corinthians 12:30 implies that not everyone speaks in tongues. Yet Mark 16:17 in context implies that any believer can speak with new tongues. Does the Bible contradict itself? No, the answer is that not everyone can speak prophetic tongues from God to the people, but every believer has the capability of receiving the gift to pray in tongues to God through the Holy Spirit. Of course not all will, but all can if they desire it.

Do you really... think I haven't heard all this before?

1 Cor.12:30 which mentions "tongues" is referring back to what Paul said in 1 Cor.12:10...

1 Cor 12:10
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
KJV

What does "divers kinds of tongues" mean? It means various languages. Can you try and use the Greek to say that's some 'prayer tongue'? No, of course not, because Paul was not even talking about the cloven tongue of Pentecost with that. He was talking about the gift some are given with the study of various languages, and also the idea of those gifted as language interpreters. Did you know the U.S. military has a career field for just those kind of people that are gifted by The Holy Spirit in learning languages?

But the doctrine on the idea of an 'unknown tongue' you have received from some of the Churches you've been going to has made you to think Paul was talking about the cloven tongue of Pentecost with that 1 Cor.12 Scripture when he wasn't.

1 Corinthians 14:14-15 establishes a couple of things. First it establishes that the term "praying in the spirit" is the equivalent of the term "praying in tongues." The verses establish that even though it doesn't profit you mentally, it does profit you spiritually, therefore it is good to pray and sing with both your mind and your spirit, which the latter was established as meaning in tongues.

No it doesn't. There is no such phrase or idea as 'praying in the spirit' written in God's Word, nor the idea of 'praying in tongues'. Those are phrases your Church has gotten you to memorize... in place of God's written Word.

Paul's Message in 1 Cor.13 & 14 is about prophesying in known languages that everyone present can understand, and how CHARITY (love, benevolence) is always no. 1, and that without that in Christ, we are nothing. But what you've been wrongly taught is that the idea of prophesying is about getting up in the Church and speaking gibberish with the hope that someone present will interpret! That is not... the kind of prophesying Paul was preaching in those 1 Cor.13 & 14 chapters.

1 Corinthians 14:2 establishes that speaking in tongues is not meant for speaking to men, but speaking to God. So either the Bible contradicts itself, or this verse is talking about praying to God in tongues.

And right there above you have substantiated exactly what I was talking about with your misinterpretation of what prophesying is per Apostle Paul. The prophesying Paul preached there is about known words in edifying the Church, and he even made comparisons to unrecognizable sounds that don't edify...

1 Cor 14:6-11
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
KJV

Paul was talking about known languages of the world in verse 10 with "kinds of voices in the world". That's the idea he was preaching, not about the cloven tongue which everyone on Pentecost heard in their own language and dialect of birth. Thus to prophesy, giving divine revelation to the Church, means preaching with "words easy to be understood" so that all... present are edified.

Ephesians 6:18 is the end of the spiritual warfare/armor of God passage, and it talks about the benefit of being able to pray in the spirit in spiritual battles. We've already established that praying in the spirit is the equivalent of praying in tongues.

Romans 8:26-27 teaches us that one of the purposes is that the Holy Spirit knows the will of God, and He prays through us when we don't know how to pray.

Again, those Scriptures have nothing to do with praying in some unknown gibberish tongue. That's just an idea you picked up in those kind of Churches in that video I posted.

Rom 8:26
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
KJV

Groanings is not some unknow gibberish tongue. It means a sigh, to pray inaudibly (stenazo). And no, you have not established that praying in the spirit is equivalent to praying in an unknown gibberish tongue.

1 Corinthians 14:4 teaches that speaking in tongues edifies oneself. I took 4 years of Spanish, and I can tell you that speaking in Spanish (as an English speaker) does not edify myself. Besides, the context is talking about praying in tongues.

You only think the gibberish you're speaking is edifying you. I already showed you what edification was that Paul was preaching in those 1 Cor.13 & 14 chapters, edification of the Church with words easy to be understood! What you are is spiritual drunken with another spirit, not The Holy Spirit. It's exactly like what Kenneth Copeland was doing standing by the podium, talking gibberish like an infant, while almost falling down like he was drunk. But that's right, you don't have time for that video. But you sure are taking time to push your non-Biblical gibberish unknown tongue doctrine of men.

Something else that is amazing about those who claim the gibberish tongue is from The Holy Spirit. They don't even recognize HOW the true cloven tongue of Pentecost manifested on Pentecost day per Acts 2!

Here's how to recognize the true cloven tongue of Acts 2:

1. If a preacher is sent to a group of people that only speak a foreign language he does not know, and there is no one there to interpret for him, and he prays about it, and then goes ahead and preaches in his own language of birth, all present will hear him speak their own language(s), even the dialects where they were born. That... is the sign of the true cloven tongue of Pentecost.

2. For the very end of this world, for the tribulation, some brethren are going to be delivered up to councils and the synagogue of Satan in order to given a Testimony for Christ Jesus. Jesus told those to not premediate what to say in that hour, but to speak what The Holy Spirit gives to speak (Mark 13). Revelation 11 shows God's two witnesses also bearing that witness during the 42 months of the dragon's reign. God through His elect is going to speak to the whole world and give a Testimony of Jesus Christ. This is what the Joel 2 prophecy that Peter quoted in Acts 2 is really about, for Pentecost was only an EXAMPLE of the cloven tongue heard each person's language of birth.

Those who claim the gibberish tongue they speak is that cloven tongue don't even understand about that future trib event of being delivered up to give a Witness. Most of the Churches that preach the unknown gibberish preach the false Fly Away Pre-trib Rapture which wrongly teaches the Church isn't going to be here for the coming tribulation.

 

[forrestcupp]

@Davy I gave you scriptures that specifically say the words "praying in the spirit" and you say that there is no such phrase or idea as 'praying in the spirit' written in God's Word. You keep using the word "gibberish," but any real, earthly language you hear and don't understand would sound like gibberish to you, but not to the people who understand it. Praying in tongues is not gibberish; you just don't understand it. You have one certain understanding of tongues, which is true. But you're not willing to be open to the possibility that there may be multiple purposes for that gift.

Plus I have one question of logic. If the only purpose of the gift of speaking in tongues is speaking to someone in their native language, then why would we need the gift of interpretation? They already understand the language.

Anyway, I'm satisfied that my experiences back up my understanding of the scriptures. You can believe what you want, but you're definitely not going to change my beliefs any more than someone who read a book about the Grand Canyon could try to teach a Havasupai Native American about the Grand Canyon when they've lived there all their lives.

I'm definitely not saying you're not my brother in Christ. But I do feel like you're missing out on a big part of what God wants to do in our lives. And I just want to clearly state with my whole heart that I believe Jesus came in the flesh, He is the Son of the Living God, He died and was raised from the dead, and He is the Lord of my life. He's my everything. This is not to prove anything, except that I love Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

1 John 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

 

[twinc]

@Davy I gave you scriptures that specifically say the words "praying in the spirit" and you say that there is no such phrase or idea as 'praying in the spirit' written in God's Word. You keep using the word "gibberish," but any real, earthly language you hear and don't understand would sound like gibberish to you, but not to the people who understand it. Praying in tongues is not gibberish; you just don't understand it. You have one certain understanding of tongues, which is true. But you're not willing to be open to the possibility that there may be multiple purposes for that gift.

Plus I have one question of logic. If the only purpose of the gift of speaking in tongues is speaking to someone in their native language, then why would we need the gift of interpretation? They already understand the language.

Anyway, I'm satisfied that my experiences back up my understanding of the scriptures. You can believe what you want, but you're definitely not going to change my beliefs any more than someone who read a book about the Grand Canyon could try to teach a Havasupai Native American about the Grand Canyon when they've lived there all their lives.

I'm definitely not saying you're not my brother in Christ. But I do feel like you're missing out on a big part of what God wants to do in our lives. And I just want to clearly state with my whole heart that I believe Jesus came in the flesh, He is the Son of the Living God, He died and was raised from the dead, and He is the Lord of my life. He's my everything. This is not to prove anything, except that I love Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

1 John 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

then and now - it is not really grasped what really happened at Pentecost or why the H/S was necessary and sent - He finished His task and is now no longer sent as no longer really needed as we have just as reliable alternatives etc now in place and placed by Him imho - btw the command was to take the gospel to the whole world = how would this have been possible without the gift of tongues as speaking different languages, this is now no longer needed or necessary - it is well know that doubting Thomas took the gospel to India - twinc

 

[forrestcupp]

then and now - it is not really grasped what really happened at Pentecost or why the H/S was necessary and sent - He finished His task and is now no longer sent as no longer really needed as we have just as reliable alternatives etc now in place and placed by Him imho - btw the command was to take the gospel to the whole world = how would this have been possible without the gift of tongues as speaking different languages, this is now no longer needed or necessary - it is well know that doubting Thomas took the gospel to India - twinc

I'm sure it grieves the Holy Spirit to hear people say we no longer need Him.

 

[amadeus]

a time to keep silent and a time to speak = see 1Cor 13:8 - twinc

"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." I Cor 13:8

Yes, so then perhaps when knowledge vanishes away at the same time tongues shall cease. I do not see where knowledge has vanished to this point. The time is the Lord's. We will have it until it is gone from us:

"And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer" Rev 10:6

 

[Davy]

@Davy I gave you scriptures that specifically say the words "praying in the spirit" and you say that there is no such phrase or idea as 'praying in the spirit' written in God's Word. You keep using the word "gibberish," but any real, earthly language you hear and don't understand would sound like gibberish to you, but not to the people who understand it. Praying in tongues is not gibberish; you just don't understand it. You have one certain understanding of tongues, which is true. But you're not willing to be open to the possibility that there may be multiple purposes for that gift.

The verses you quoted aren't about praying in some unknown tongue and then calling it praying in the spirit. When we pray to God, ourselves in silence, The Holy Spirit intercedes for us, in silence. It doesn't manifest as some gibberish tongue.

There is such a thing as the cloven tongue of Pentecost. How did it manifest?