Last days are here today! Are you ready to meet Jesus in the clouds??

[GISMYS_7]

Why not just believe God's Word on the catching up (rapture)??
1 Thess. 4:16-18
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain """shall be caught up together""" with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words1 Corinthians 15:51- 57
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[07-07-07]

Brother, the Antichrist will be known when he takes the reins of power in Europe, consolidating 10 states under his power, and defeating 3 leaders in the process. He will then begin to dispose of Christianity throughout his realm, and will likely destroy the city of Rome.

I know the signs of the coming false messiah via the Holy Scriptures, and I see them in Emmanuel Macron.

You don't need to focus on future prophecy as much as on what God is saying today. There are plenty of false Christs, both religious and political. We are to be on guard against all deceptions which claim to be some kind of earthly utopia. We have to keep our Christian standards when those on the political Left and on the religious Left tell us peace comes by tolerance and by letting all religions have their way.

Jesus strongly rebuked those who didn't recognize the signs of His first coming, so how much more will He rebuke those who don't recognize nor care to see the signs of His second coming?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Why not just believe God's Word on the catching up (rapture)??
1 Thess. 4:16-18
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain """shall be caught up together""" with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words1 Corinthians 15:51- 57
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is hardly worth responding to, and shows you have little knowledge of the subject, or just don't care. Just quoting this passage has nothing in it to address the real issue, which is whether the "Rapture" will take place *Before* the Reign of Antichrist? This passage doesn't have a single element in determining this. Just quoting a Scripture that describes the "Rapture" doesn't address the issue of *When* it will happen, before or after the so-called "Tribulation!"

In my view, this passage argues better for Postrib than Pretrib. The resurrection takes place here, which in Rev 20 takes place *after* the death of Antichrist. And all of the signs here, the trumpets, the angels--all of it relates back to Jesus' description of the coming of the Son of Man, which takes place "after the tribulation." In that context Jesus was asked about the "end of the age." And Jesus' answer equates the Coming of the Son of Man with the end of the age. So your quotation of this passage argues *against* your position, and not for it.

Please provide a real argument!

 

[07-07-07]

All born again believers that do not reject the rapture will be raptured but many people that will be left behind will see their error and become believers but then must try to live under anti-christ rule and many will be beheaded ==be wise.

No, only the wise virgins with oil in their lamps will meet the Bridegroom on Rapture day. The foolish virgins will be spewed out in to great tribulation. The fire will either refine them or burn them up.


Revelation 3
[14] And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
[15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
[16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
[17] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
[18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
[19] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

 

[Randy Kluth]

No, only the wise virgins with oil in their lamps will meet the Bridegroom on Rapture day. The foolish virgins will be spewed out in to great tribulation. The fire will either refine them or burn them up.


Revelation 3
[14] And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
[15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
[16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
[17] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
[18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
[19] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Where does the Scripture say the 5 foolish virgins will be spewed out into the great tribulation? It doesn't, though I agree that the 5 foolish virgins are in effect excluded from the Kingdom of God.

Reference to the Laodicean church does not address the issue at all. Irrelevant!

 

[07-07-07]

That's classic cultism. Only you have the truth and all else are deceived. Is that what you're saying? We should all generally conclude that the way is narrow, and that many go down the path that's wide. But Christianity is defined by its orthodoxy and by its practice.

Yes, generally speaking, people are sinners and tend to make lots of errors. But there is a difference between genuine Christianity and nonChristians--that should not be ignored when we criticize.

I don't at all believe that all of the different theological systems are void of biblical truth. I benefit from most all of them, including the ones that have significant deviations, because most often there is some legitimate truth there. We should criticize but not become "critical," agree?

The problem with your position is that it places you on shaking ground, which the devil can easily shake. Study the Scriptures, find the truth and proclaim it. Don't be afraid to be labeled a "cult" member; that's exactly what the devil wants. Jesus came with an exclusive message that most of the world rejects, so I'm sure that they would claim He is a cult leader too. "I'm the only way", Jesus claimed. "There's no other way". "If you don't believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins".

 

[Randy Kluth]

The problem with your position is that it places you on shaking ground, which the devil can easily shake. Study the Scriptures, find the truth and proclaim it. Don't be afraid to be labeled a "cult" member; that's exactly what the devil wants. Jesus came with an exclusive message that most of the world rejects, so I'm sure that they would claim He is a cult leader too. "I'm the only way", Jesus claimed. "There's no other way". "If you don't believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins".

We all agree, as Christians, that Jesus is the way. The problem is when we try to edge out Jesus and declare that *we* are the way, ie our "biblical" position. I have no problem with arguing a position from the Bible. But arguing positions just by quoting the Bible, when that passage is not relevant--no!

 

[07-07-07]

Where does the Scripture say the 5 foolish virgins will be spewed out into the great tribulation? It doesn't, though I agree that the 5 foolish virgins are in effect excluded from the Kingdom of God.

Reference to the Laodicean church does not address the issue at all. Irrelevant!

Use wisdom. A virgin is a believer in Jesus, but a foolish virgin has no oil to keep the fire burning to be a light in this dark world. My reference to the Laodicean church is that they are foolish virgins, and they will be spewed out of Jesus' mouth. Think deeply about this.

Matthew 5
[14] Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
[15] Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
[16] Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I know the signs of the coming false messiah via the Holy Scriptures, and I see them in Emmanuel Macron.

Jesus strongly rebuked those who didn't recognize the signs of His first coming, so how much more will He rebuke those who don't recognize nor care to see the signs of His second coming?[/QUOTE]

The major sign of Christ's 2nd Coming is the presence of antichristianity in the current age. Paul called it the "mystery of iniquity." It indicates that Christ has not yet come, because when he does really come, he will destroy it, as well as the Antichrist himself.

So yes, we need to be aware of what's going on around us, regarding deceptions and lawlessness, and we need to see the signs of the 2nd Coming. We agree on that!

I don't like Macron's typically-French socialist policies, nor his backstabbing of Trump on the world stage. However, he's not even close to being the "False Messiah." (I can't believe I'm defending Macron here!)

Nevertheless, France and Germany should be closely scrutinized and distrusted, as you indicate. They are falling into a post-Christian corruption that soon there will be little ability to return from.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Use wisdom. A virgin is a believer in Jesus, but a foolish virgin has no oil to keep the fire burning to be a light in this dark world. My reference to the Laodicean church is that they are foolish virgins, and they will be spewed out of Jesus' mouth. Think deeply about this.

Matthew 5
[14] Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
[15] Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
[16] Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

The point had to do with something else entirely. Think deeply about that!

I was saying that reference to the foolish virgins did not *explicitly* indicate a sending of them to the Great Tribulation. That was your insertion. No amount of "wisdom" will prove that for you.

 

[07-07-07]

The point had to do with something else entirely. Think deeply about that!

I was saying that reference to the foolish virgins did not *explicitly* indicate a sending of them to the Great Tribulation. That was your insertion. No amount of "wisdom" will prove that for you.

Why hang around if you don't accept the end-time signs? Your criticism doesn't affect me nor those who see what's happening as it relates to Jesus' teaching of His second coming. Your efforts to tear down the truth only hurts you, and possibly dissuade those who would like to know more.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Why hang around if you don't accept the end-time signs? Your criticism doesn't affect me nor those who see what's happening as it relates to Jesus' teaching of His second coming. Your efforts to tear down the truth only hurts you, and possibly dissuade those who would like to know more.

I hang around not to tell you what you want to hear, but to share what I believe God wants you to know, if you are willing. Apparently you are not?

I'm at least as interested in the signs of the times as you are--I've been studying it for about 50 years! I discovered, after memorizing 2 Thessalonians, to my surprise, that Paul was teaching Postrib! And after some wavering I became convinced that I should stand on what I know to be true, without worrying about negative reactions.

If what I say is true and biblical, the Holy Spirit will back me up over time, because the Lord is patient. We are all on the same team, brother. I'm not against you. I'm against what I believe to be false teaching that keeps us unprepared. We need to be aware of the false Christs of our time--those movements, political and religious, that claim to produce God's Kingdom right here on earth now. We need to expose the sin, and to avoid the lawlessness. That is my mission.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Jesus is returning only for those looking for Him others will be left behind.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and """unto them that look for him""" shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[bbyrd009]

So if I jump off a cliff and believe that I won't fall, I will just remain suspended in the air? The laws of physics require that I face reality when I face real life.

It's the same thing with history. It matters not if I want to believe I will be "raptured out" of this world before Antichrist arises. If God has not said so in His word, all of the "faith" in the world will not get us delivered.

So why just assert this or that? We must prove our position is biblicali--otherwise, we're just telling others to believe not God but *us!*

ty

and ntmy, mark here

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus is returning only for those looking for Him others will be left behind.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and """unto them that look for him""" shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

a literal Jesus is and must remain the focus, huh gis
no spirits allowed lol
ok
"Galileans, why arent you standing there looking up at the sky?"

 

[GISMYS_7]

Jesus says they will see the nail holes and remember=do spirits have nail holes?

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus says they will see the nail holes and remember=do spirits have nail holes?

ah, wadr i dont think Jesus said that; you would have to Quote it for me

and i hope you understand that i would personally be tickled pink to get raptured ok, used to be a big proponent of rapture myself
then i read the Bible

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus is returning only for those looking for Him others will be left behind.
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and """unto them that look for him""" shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

You constantly make these assertions without any Scriptural evidence. Give me evidence to agree with or to challenge! The verses you quote have nothing to do with the subject. Yes, it may have to deal with some of the subject matter, but it doesn't address the real questions.

Both Postribs and Pretribs are "setting their minds on things above," and are "looking for his appearing." The question is, what do you do with Paul, who said in 2 Thes 2 that Christ will *not* return for his Church until he comes to actually destroy the Antichrist? That is the victory we are to look forward to. We are to look forward to Christ's Kingdom, which inspires us to righteous living.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Hey! Those that reject and do not expect to be raptured will be left behind. Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and """unto them that look for him""" shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Hey! Those that reject and do not expect to be raptured will be left behind. Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and """unto them that look for him""" shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

We are *all* waiting for Christ to come the 2nd time! I'm still waiting for you to find Scripture that explicitly says Christians will be "left behind" after a Pretrib Rapture? You will not find one because it *doesn't exist!* I've been studying prophecy for decades. Believe me--it doesn't exist!

The only proof Pretribbers ever provide are what they believe are similar concepts of removal before trouble. Or, they provide what they believe are symbolic allusions to a Pretrib Rapture, such as Enoch before the Flood, and John's translation to heaven before revealing "future things."

Escaping from God's wrath did take place in instances in history, such as in 70 AD, when Jesus told his disciples to "flee" when they see Roman armies, ie the Abomination of Desolation. But otherwise, Christians still had to suffer God's wrath against the Jews and God's wrath against the Gentiles.

Christians do suffer along with their nations when those nations are under God's wrath. It isn't that God's wrath is being directed at us, but that God wishes not that we be taken out of tribulation, but that we be kept *in it!*

And yes, these are Scriptures I provide. What you provide are good Scriptures, but clearly do not settle this particular issue.