Last days are here today! Are you ready to meet Jesus in the clouds??

[Randy Kluth]

The church will be raptured (caught up) before the great tribulation= PTL. Pray that you b counted worthy to escape we believers are not appointed to God's wrath.

The statements do not correlate. If the "Great Tribulation" is being falsely depicted as the last "7 years of the age," and as the eschatological "Wrath of God," then a falsehood is being perpetrated by you.

Of course Christians do not suffer the "Wrath of God" when they are saved. The book of Revelation is largely talking about the eschatological Wrath of God, which comes against the Beast Empire, and brings them into *Eternal Judgment!* No Christian will suffer that!

The "Great Tribulation," according to Jesus, began with the Fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, and is the *Jewish Diaspora,* continuing all through the present age, and ending at the Return of Christ. How can anybody read it any other way?

Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

The term "great distress" in bold above refers to the "Great Tribulation," as recounted in all 3 versions of the Olivet Discourse. Here, Luke plainly describes it as the Jewish Dispersion following the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD: They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations.

Since we therefore know how Jesus depicted the "Great Tribulation," that it is basically the entire *NT era,* how can you say that Christians will not go through this period of Divine Wrath?

This was specifically a period of Wrath, or Punishment, directed against the Jewish People due to their rejection of Christ. And Jewish believers clearly went through this time, as Jesus explicitly stated.

He said he did not wish for Christians to be taken out of the world, but to be kept in it, during this time. John 17.15. And indeed, Christians have been experiencing times of divine wrath directed at many nations throughout the NT period.

So you should not deny this and mislead others by saying "Christians will not experience the "Great Tribulation," or "they will not suffer God's Wrath." This is deliberately misleading when you deny what the "Great Tribulation" period is, and then claim "God's Wrath" is the entire era of Antichrist's rule.

Antichrist's Rule is no more the eschatological time of God's Wrath than 70 AD was for the Jewish People. The real eschatological "Wrath of God" takes place when Christ actually comes to sentence people to *Eternal Punishment.*

 

[Randy Kluth]

Only the last 2000 years. How can Christians be the reason for the 4000 years before Christ? The tribulation was not for the church. It was Jacob's trouble. The church did become apostate, so God will put the church through more judgment besides this covid19.

Saying the church is needed in God's wrath upon the Jews and the Nations. Is about as foolish as Moses telling God to take his name out of the Lamb's book of life, if God would just not punish and kill the Jews. Moses can not be removed from the Lamb's book of life. The church MUST be removed from Jacob's troubles. They are only Jacob's to process, not the church's.

Of course all those not in the church, who have not accepted the Atonement, but think that works places them into the church, will go through pain and suffering. If they keep rejecting the Atonement each time a rapture happens, then their only option will be to take the cursed mark of Adam, or have their head chopped off. After the two witnesses die, having one's head chopped off will not save one. That last fury of the Lamb and the two sickles, is it. That is the last battle of Armageddon in Megiddo. Some call it the valley of Jezreel.

The Church represents not just NT Christians but the saints from all ages. They were not yet fully revealed as "the Church" until after Christ's work on the cross. But Christ redeemed *all* of His people form all ages.

Thus, all ages of believers make up "the Church." These are the people God has called and chosen. They are the people for whom history exists. God made it clear from the beginning this was His plan, to fill the earth with *His people.* His Kingdom rule would be extended through them.

You seem to be confused between the World and the Church. Christian Civilization is under judgment--not just backslidden Christians. Many in former Christian Civilization are not really part of the Church at all, and are certainly under judgment--as much as any backslidden Christians are. God begins His judgments with His own people, but He certainly will judge a nonChristian civilization when it has risen to the heights of wickedness, particularly when they have been warned by the Gospel.

Not all in former Christian Civilization are trying to call themselves "the Church" by doing good works. Yes, they do good works, and create their own Gospel, but they certainly aren't not always presenting themselves as "good Christians!"

Many in Western Civilization are trying to produce new religion, or new ways of living. They are not trying to get into Christ's Kingdom because they don't even believe in Christ's Kingdom! Your focus on false Christians alone is a little strange, because it is only one avenue Western Civilization has taken.

But it's true that there are Liberal Christians and Backslidden Christians, and they will certainly be judged. But to take the focus off of Western Civilization as a whole, with all of its false paths, is a little strange to me.

The idea that the so-called "Tribulation Era" is there as a "last chance scenario" is pure fiction, coming out of Darby's Dispensationalism, in my opinion. That isn't how the book of Revelation depicts the reign of Antichrist, as a "last chance for Christians." Rather, it is depicted as an opportunity for Christians to demonstrate great courage, bringing God great glory.

 

[Timtofly]

The statements do not correlate. If the "Great Tribulation" is being falsely depicted as the last "7 years of the age," and as the eschatological "Wrath of God," then a falsehood is being perpetrated by you.

Of course Christians do not suffer the "Wrath of God" when they are saved. The book of Revelation is largely talking about the eschatological Wrath of God, which comes against the Beast Empire, and brings them into *Eternal Judgment!* No Christian will suffer that!

The "Great Tribulation," according to Jesus, began with the Fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, and is the *Jewish Diaspora,* continuing all through the present age, and ending at the Return of Christ. How can anybody read it any other way?

Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

The term "great distress" in bold above refers to the "Great Tribulation," as recounted in all 3 versions of the Olivet Discourse. Here, Luke plainly describes it as the Jewish Dispersion following the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD: They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations.

Since we therefore know how Jesus depicted the "Great Tribulation," that it is basically the entire *NT era,* how can you say that Christians will not go through this period of Divine Wrath?

This was specifically a period of Wrath, or Punishment, directed against the Jewish People due to their rejection of Christ. And Jewish believers clearly went through this time, as Jesus explicitly stated.

He said he did not wish for Christians to be taken out of the world, but to be kept in it, during this time. John 17.15. And indeed, Christians have been experiencing times of divine wrath directed at many nations throughout the NT period.

So you should not deny this and mislead others by saying "Christians will not experience the "Great Tribulation," or "they will not suffer God's Wrath." This is deliberately misleading when you deny what the "Great Tribulation" period is, and then claim "God's Wrath" is the entire era of Antichrist's rule.

Antichrist's Rule is no more the eschatological time of God's Wrath than 70 AD was for the Jewish People. The real eschatological "Wrath of God" takes place when Christ actually comes to sentence people to *Eternal Punishment.*

John did not see the Great Tribulation as being 1950 years long. It only lasts 3.5 years, and as you claim, Christians do not go through it. It was Not the last 1950 years because Christians have gone through the last 1950 years.

There is a reason Daniel left one week out. God is not done with addressing the Jews, Israel, nor the house of Jacob. For one, how can you prove, Satan, the false prophet, and an image did appear in Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Do you trust Josephus? Do you have historical text that you can quote? Or do we accept by Faith? Jesus says, when it happens, you will know. No one in the NT or early church fathers declared that they knew 70AD was the final fulfillment of a 70 week period. Therefore no one can know. Making people just believe, goes against any knowledge of a fact. In 70AD the temple burned down before any Roman could enter.

There were so many Jews killed, because that year, millions of Jews came from all over the world for that Passover. Those in and around Jerusalem in heeding Jesus' words left months before the actual siege. They were later hunted down and killed after the Romans killed all those who gathered in Jerusalem from all over. It was literally a world wide campaign like the Holocaust, except the Romans waited until all the Jews coming from all over, gathered in and around Jerusalem. Then the Romans slaughtered Jews for about 7 months.

However that was not the work of Satan, nor God, as the prophecy of Revelation which was barely written, even if sent out at all yet, to all the churches. It was just a Roman act, like Hitler in World War 2, was just a German act against the nation of Isreal. One ended it, the other planted the fig tree.

 

[Timtofly]

The Church represents not just NT Christians but the saints from all ages. They were not yet fully revealed as "the Church" until after Christ's work on the cross. But Christ redeemed *all* of His people form all ages.

Thus, all ages of believers make up "the Church." These are the people God has called and chosen. They are the people for whom history exists. God made it clear from the beginning this was His plan, to fill the earth with *His people.* His Kingdom rule would be extended through them.

You seem to be confused between the World and the Church. Christian Civilization is under judgment--not just backslidden Christians. Many in former Christian Civilization are not really part of the Church at all, and are certainly under judgment--as much as any backslidden Christians are. God begins His judgments with His own people, but He certainly will judge a nonChristian civilization when it has risen to the heights of wickedness, particularly when they have been warned by the Gospel.

Not all in former Christian Civilization are trying to call themselves "the Church" by doing good works. Yes, they do good works, and create their own Gospel, but they certainly aren't not always presenting themselves as "good Christians!"

Many in Western Civilization are trying to produce new religion, or new ways of living. They are not trying to get into Christ's Kingdom because they don't even believe in Christ's Kingdom! Your focus on false Christians alone is a little strange, because it is only one avenue Western Civilization has taken.

But it's true that there are Liberal Christians and Backslidden Christians, and they will certainly be judged. But to take the focus off of Western Civilization as a whole, with all of its false paths, is a little strange to me.

The idea that the so-called "Tribulation Era" is there as a "last chance scenario" is pure fiction, coming out of Darby's Dispensationalism, in my opinion. That isn't how the book of Revelation depicts the reign of Antichrist, as a "last chance for Christians." Rather, it is depicted as an opportunity for Christians to demonstrate great courage, bringing God great glory.

You are making it a last chance scenario. I am just saying how the end of the world unfolds in your "last chance" , or any other believer's scenario. Even if I directly stated or implied, the direct objection would be, I am crazy. Every one has their own opinion of how it ends. That is the default objection in the last days topic.

 

[kcnalp]

Israel is back! This is the terminal generation.

Luke 21 This generation will not pass away until all things are fulfilled.

 

[07-07-07]

Israel is back! This is the terminal generation.

Luke 21 This generation will not pass away until all things are fulfilled.

This is indeed the countdown generation. Furthermore, Jesus said:

Matthew 24
[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
[12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
[13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[Bobby Jo]

This is indeed the countdown generation. ...

... and the 42 month (Rev. 13:5) countdown began when the U.S. recognized Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel.


Some 12 months until the mark of the beast; and some 18 months until global thermonuclear war.
Bobby Jo

 

[GISMYS_7]

A-I =Artifical intelligence that is fast taking control of the world's people is a HUGE sign that we are living in the last days. Are you ready to be caught up (raptured) or will you be left behind??