Last Trump vs Seventh

[n2thelight]

You all say He won't allow us to go through tribulation ,what may I ask are the people going through now,outside a Christian nation?

You all talk about death during the tribulation,are these Christians not dying now??

Did not Christ say to fear not those who can kill the body???

 

[07-07-07]

Again what are we watching for?

We are watching for Jesus to call us the Marriage Supper via that great catching away because all the end-time signs are unfolding before our eyes. We are indeed at the door.

 

[07-07-07]

You all say He won't allow us to go through tribulation ,what may I ask are the people going through now,outside a Christian nation?

That's why it's possible the Rapture of the Saints occurs at the 7th Trumpet, the last Trump. Afterwards, the 7 vials of wrath are poured out on the antichrist world. I believe this to be during the last 3.5 years.

You all talk about death during the tribulation,are these Christians not dying now??

Yes, they are.

Did not Christ say to fear not those who can kill the body???

Yes, He did.

 

[Davy]

We are watching for Jesus to call us the Marriage Supper via that great catching away because all the end-time signs are unfolding before our eyes. We are indeed at the door.

Well, you've got the timing of that marriage supper wrong too. It's because of the pre-trib rapture school you're listening to.

Pay close attention to the order of these verses...

Rev 19:1-9
19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, "Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2 For true and righteous are His judgments: for He hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of His servants at her hand."
3 And again they said, "Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever."

Those three verses above set the timing of the next 4 through 9 verses. At verse 10 it reverts to the present in John's time, with John wrongly bowing to the angel. Then the angel reveals to John the day of Christ's coming in verses 11 through 21. So we're given 3 sections of time there:

1. Rev.19:1-9 = after the destruction of the whore and thus after the end of this world, showing Christ had gathered His elect Church. This is Millennial timing, which is when the marriage supper will take place.

2. Rev.19:10 = John wrongly bowing to the angel. John's present time.

3. Rev.19:11-21 = day of Jesus' 2nd coming to defeat His enemies, time just prior... to the whore's destruction.


The timelines in Revelation flow like the Books of the OT prophets do. The time can jump to the past, present, or future, very quickly, so one must pay close attention to the type of events. God will not avenge the blood of His servants until the very last day of this present world, so any passage that speaks of that event in the past tense, that does not mean to move it to another time, like earlier. Likewise with the marriage supper. It doesn't happen until after... the "sudden destruction" of 1 Thess.5 on the "day of the Lord", which is the last day of this world.

 

[Davy]

That's why it's possible the Rapture of the Saints occurs at the 7th Trumpet, the last Trump. Afterwards, the 7 vials of wrath are poured out on the antichrist world. I believe this to be during the last 3.5 years.

But on 6th Vial, our Lord Jesus is still warning His Church to not be deceived, because He comes "as a thief". Then the gathering of the armies of His enemies happens with Armageddon, and then the 7th Vial is poured out. So our Lord Jesus showed by that, that His coming to gather His Church will be on the 7th Vial.

 

[07-07-07]

But on 6th Vial, our Lord Jesus is still warning His Church to not be deceived, because He comes "as a thief". Then the gathering of the armies of His enemies happens with Armageddon, and then the 7th Vial is poured out. So our Lord Jesus showed by that, that His coming to gather His Church will be on the 7th Vial.

There will be Saints on earth during the great tribulation.

 

[n2thelight]

There will be Saints on earth during the great tribulation.

Everybody will be here.

 

[Davy]

There will be Saints on earth during the great tribulation.

I know there will be saints on earth during the tribulation; they're called His Church. It doesn't mean some dreamed up "tribulation saints" idea that pre-trib rapture theorists try to use. It's because Christ doesn't come to gather His Church until after the tribulation like He said.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV


The Pre-trib school wrongly teaches that Christ's Olivet discourse of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are meant only for Jews, i.e., their "tribulation saints" idea. In reality, Jesus was giving His Church the seven signs of the very end of this world, because those signs He gave there are the Seals of Revelation 6, which He definitely gave to His Church through John. And the Matt.24 and Mark 13 gathering of the saints aligns with what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thess.4 about Christ gathering His Church at His coming.

Brethren that would rather argue against... the plain Word of God proof of those Scriptures where our Lord Jesus showed He comes to gather His Church after the tribulation have instead put their faith in man, and not in Him and His Word of Truth.

 

[07-07-07]

I know there will be saints on earth during the tribulation; they're called His Church. It doesn't mean some dreamed up "tribulation saints" idea that pre-trib rapture theorists try to use. It's because Christ doesn't come to gather His Church until after the tribulation like He said.

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV




The Pre-trib school wrongly teaches that Christ's Olivet discourse of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 are meant only for Jews, i.e., their "tribulation saints" idea. In reality, Jesus was giving His Church the seven signs of the very end of this world, because those signs He gave there are the Seals of Revelation 6, which He definitely gave to His Church through John. And the Matt.24 and Mark 13 gathering of the saints aligns with what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thess.4 about Christ gathering His Church at His coming.

Brethren that would rather argue against... the plain Word of God proof of those Scriptures where our Lord Jesus showed He comes to gather His Church after the tribulation have instead put their faith in man, and not in Him and His Word of Truth.

You've got your mind made up. As for me, I'm inclined to believe in the 7th Trumpet (last Trump) Rapture, which is based on Scripture.

Revelation 11
[15] And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
[16] And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
[17] Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
[18] And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
[19] And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

 

[Davy]

You've got your mind made up. As for me, I'm inclined to believe in the 7th Trumpet (last Trump) Rapture, which is based on Scripture.

Revelation 11
[15] And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
[16] And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
[17] Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
[18] And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
[19] And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

God's Holy Writ is what has made my mind up for me. It's all written.

Even in the above Scripture, you reveal you really don't study your Bible as you should, because that 7th trumpet event is about the day of Christ's 2nd coming and END of the tribulation, and gathering of His Church. That's why it says there that all the kingdoms of THIS WORLD have then become those of The Father and of His Christ. At verse 15 it is Millennial time, when Jesus with His elect take reign with a rod of iron over all nations on earth, literally.

 

[07-07-07]

God's Holy Writ is what has made my mind up for me. It's all written.

Even in the above Scripture, you reveal you really don't study your Bible as you should, because that 7th trumpet event is about the day of Christ's 2nd coming and END of the tribulation, and gathering of His Church. That's why it says there that all the kingdoms of THIS WORLD have then become those of The Father and of His Christ. At verse 15 it is Millennial time, when Jesus with His elect take reign with a rod of iron over all nations on earth, literally.

You can try to belittle me by not "studying my Bible as I should", but that only dismisses your argument to me. It simply doesn't work, as I've seen that by people before. It's actually a turn off. In any case, I could counter your aforementioned interpretation of Scripture, but you don't have ears to hear.

 

[Davy]

You can try to belittle me by not "studying my Bible as I should", but that only dismisses your argument to me. It simply doesn't work, as I've seen that by people before. It's actually a turn off. In any case, I could counter your aforementioned interpretation of Scripture, but you don't have ears to hear.

Sorry that it offended you, but what I said was true.

 

[Davy]

You can try to belittle me by not "studying my Bible as I should", but that only dismisses your argument to me. It simply doesn't work, as I've seen that by people before. It's actually a turn off. In any case, I could counter your aforementioned interpretation of Scripture, but you don't have ears to hear.

Furthermore, before you accuse others of belittling you, you need to fess up to YOUR mockery when others disagree with you...

You said:
"You've got your mind made up. As for me, I'm inclined to believe in the 7th Trumpet (last Trump) Rapture, which is based on Scripture."

That part in bold-underlined you said to me makes a false assumption and accusation. It accuses me of not basing what I have declared on Scripture, and makes a false claim that you instead are the one basing your belief on Scripture, which of course is false, because there is NO Scripture that supports a pre-trib rapture.

So just remember smarty pants, how you made the first accusation, which is why I responded the way I did.

 

[07-07-07]

Furthermore, before you accuse others of belittling you, you need to fess up to YOUR mockery when others disagree with you...

You said:
"You've got your mind made up. As for me, I'm inclined to believe in the 7th Trumpet (last Trump) Rapture, which is based on Scripture."

That part in bold-underlined you said to me makes a false assumption and accusation. It accuses me of not basing what I have declared on Scripture, and makes a false claim that you instead are the one basing your belief on Scripture, which of course is false, because there is NO Scripture that supports a pre-trib rapture.

So just remember smarty pants, how you made the first accusation, which is why I responded the way I did.

It was in no way belittlement by saying that "You've got your mind made up". Do you not? Regarding the last part, I do use Scripture to base my conclusions, whether you agree or not. Finally, you keep saying that I support a pre-trib rapture, which is false. I am neither pre, mid nor post tribualtion, because I am of the position that the timing of the rapture is not etched in stone in the Scriptures. With that said, I am persuaded to believe the rapture occurs at the 7th Trumpet. But, it may very well not be. I accept that fact, but neither pre-tribulation believers nor your position persuades me to the contrary.

 

[Davy]

It was in no way belittlement by saying that "You've got your mind made up". Do you not? Regarding the last part, I do use Scripture to base my conclusions, whether you agree or not. Finally, you keep saying that I support a pre-trib rapture, which is false. I am neither pre, mid nor post tribualtion, because I am of the position that the timing of the rapture is not etched in stone in the Scriptures. With that said, I am persuaded to believe the rapture occurs at the 7th Trumpet. But, it may very well not be. I accept that fact, but neither pre-tribulation believers nor your position persuades me to the contrary.

Don't play coy and go telling a lie. That post made the false assumption that I was not following Scripture, but that you were. Plain and simple.

 

[Davy]

....
Finally, you keep saying that I support a pre-trib rapture, which is false. I am neither pre, mid nor post tribualtion, because I am of the position that the timing of the rapture is not etched in stone in the Scriptures. With that said, I am persuaded to believe the rapture occurs at the 7th Trumpet. But, it may very well not be. I accept that fact, but neither pre-tribulation believers nor your position persuades me to the contrary.

Firstly, I don't have a "position". This isn't politics like some seminarians often play. Either one stays with the simplicity of Bible Scripture, or they do not. And what you claim is NOT... from Bible Scripture, which I've shown in several posts to you already, but you haven't bothered to discuss the Scripture I've posted to you.

You said this concerning a rapture of the saints:
"I believe the Scriptures reveal that the wise virgins will be taken, but the foolish will be left to endure great tribulation."

That idea my friend... IS... the Pre-trib Rapture theory of men! Those are the ones who wrongly believe in the first ones 'taken' of Luke 17 are Christ's Church, with the wicked being those Left-behind.

In reality, Christ's answer in Luke 17:37 is the opposite idea, i.e., the first one taken is gathered to wheresoever the fowls are. The Matthew 24:28 version of His answer even reveals the idea of being like a dead carcase gathered where the eagles are, which really is about vultures feasting on the dead. For the end when the Antichrist shows up playing Messiah in Jerusalem, it means being deceived and falling away to that false Messiah instead of waiting for Christ's coming.

So now it appears that you are trying to conceal... what you really have believed about the gathering of Christ's Church, i.e, a pre-trib rapture.

 

[tooldtocare]

Wars ranked by total number of deaths

Rank,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,War.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Years.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,total deaths

1 American Revolutionary War ----------------- 2,500,000
2 War of 1812–15 ------------------------------------- 8,000,000
3 Mexican–American War 1846–48 ------ 21,406,000
4 American Civil War 1861–65 --------------- 31,443,000
5 World War I 1917–18 ------------------------- 103,268,000
6 World War II 1941–45 ------------------------ 133,402,000
7 Korean War 1950–53 ------------------------- 151,325,000
8 Vietnam War 1961–75 ----------------------- 179,323,175
9 Iraq War 2003–2011 --------------------------294,043,000
10 Trump's war ----------------------------------- <:>?