Latter Rain

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marks

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The Latter Rain is not for this time. It is for AFTER the Second Coming of Christ, the gathering of all Jews to Israel, and the salvation of one-third of that number. That is when the Holy Spirit will be poured out upon redeemed and restored Israel.

For the present time which is the Great Apostasy, there will be a further decline in Christendom, followed by the reign of the Antichrist.
For myself, I see in Scripture that many will be leaving the faith, rather than coming to it, and that the there will be lying signs and wonders, not miraculous authentications of the true gentile church. And persecution and martyrdom by enemies who will only be overcome when Jesus returns.

I think that if there were an outpouring I'd call a latter rain, and I don't actually, but I think this would be the best understanding, upon Israel as they are redeemed.

Much love!
 

David H.

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OK, the Latter Rain outpouring is to show to the world the true children of God?
Isn't God's Word going out and bring it's results now, though? And isn't the Holy Spirit drawing us into unity now? I think so.

Yes, and yes these things are beginning now, I think that many of those sealed up prophecies are beginning to be unsealed now, and many are coming around to see where the tares have infiltrated the church, yet we must wait for the angels to separate the wheat from the tares.
 

marks

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2,000+ year gap. Unnatural reading of Joel 2:28-31 IMO, but apparently we disagree.
If you are thinking that we disagree over a gap in the prophecy, I don't see a 2000 year gap. I see it having continuous fulfillment from those days through today, until that moon becomes blood.

Much love!
 

marks

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No, we cannot.

Here I disagree.

2 Peter 1:3-4
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

If He has already given us all that pertains, what do we lack?

This does NOT mean we cannot be Christians; it does NOT mean we cannot serve the Lord; it does NOT mean that we cannot win souls for Christ; it does NOT mean that we cannot give ourselves to worship, study, meditation, prayer and other Christian practices, even moving in individual gifts.

But can we operate as a spiritual body in true New Testament Christianity without receiving an outpouring to the same extent or greater?

No, we cannot.

Are you saying the gap, maybe I've been misunderstanding you, the gap here is a gap in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit? Do you mean that the Holy Spirit was given in a way at that time, and is not now, but will be later?

Much love!
 

marks

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Yes, and yes these things are beginning now, I think that many of those sealed up prophecies are beginning to be unsealed now, and many are coming around to see where the tares have infiltrated the church, yet we must wait for the angels to separate the wheat from the tares.
What I mean is, Hasn't the Holy Spirit been drawing God's children to unity ever since Pentecost?

Hasn't God's Word been performing God's purposes ever since He gave it?

This is what I'm talking about. God intends for us to have unity with each other, and we have unity through the Spirit of Christ within us. These things have been true since the beginnning, and remain true now. What are we waiting for, except to end our unbelief that God has in fact given us all we need?

Much love!
 

David H.

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What I mean is, Hasn't the Holy Spirit been drawing God's children to unity ever since Pentecost?

Hasn't God's Word been performing God's purposes ever since He gave it?

This is what I'm talking about. God intends for us to have unity with each other, and we have unity through the Spirit of Christ within us. These things have been true since the beginnning, and remain true now. What are we waiting for, except to end our unbelief that God has in fact given us all we need?

Read the Parable of the wheat and the tares again. notice the wheat and the tares grow together, rather than uprooting the wheat, He allows the tares to be there. They are the ones that are preventing this unity of the Spirit from coming to full fruition, as the Wheat grows, so grows the church. God Knows this, he allows for it and He will overcome this. (See 1 Corinthians 11:19, and 1 Corinthians 4:5)
 

marks

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Read the Parable of the wheat and the tares again. notice the wheat and the tares grow together, rather than uprooting the wheat, He allows the tares to be there. They are the ones that are preventing this unity of the Spirit from coming to full fruition, as the Wheat grows, so grows the church. God Knows this, he allows for it and He will overcome this. (See 1 Corinthians 11:19, and 1 Corinthians 4:5)
You are saying that unbelievers prevent God's children from having unity? I don't find that to be true, either in the Bible, or in my life.

Aren't we all filled with the Holy Spirit, and does not the Holy Spirit give us unity with each other? And has not God revealed in His Word that this, having unity with each other, that this is His will for us?

It sounds like you are saying that we need what amounts to a re-baptism in the Holy Spirit so that we can overcome the effect of unbelievers in our midst, and actually have unity with each other. I believe that God gives us everything needed to fulfill His will in our lives, including that we have unity in the family of God.

Would it really be His intent for us now, but then to hold back the power to make it so?

Much love!
 

David H.

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You are saying that unbelievers prevent God's children from having unity? I don't find that to be true, either in the Bible, or in my life.

Aren't we all filled with the Holy Spirit, and does not the Holy Spirit give us unity with each other? And has not God revealed in His Word that this, having unity with each other, that this is His will for us?

It sounds like you are saying that we need what amounts to a re-baptism in the Holy Spirit so that we can overcome the effect of unbelievers in our midst, and actually have unity with each other. I believe that God gives us everything needed to fulfill His will in our lives, including that we have unity in the family of God.

Would it really be His intent for us now, but then to hold back the power to make it so?

Much love!

God has Planted in us all the truth, it must grow in us. The enemy planted tares among the wheat, they are there, and they are amongst us. This is why I believe the outpouring of the gift of the discernment of spirits will mark this end time revival, and why it is withheld from us on the large part, because we are not meant to uproot the tares, but the angels of the Lord will before the harvest. the result of this will be the unity of the Spirit. This was evident in the apostolic church, as well as every church since then, though we desire this unity it is rare, and only found in times of revival, the apostles themselves at pentecost were "of one accord" eventually the Circumcission caused division among them. when they are of One accord there is the outpouring of the Spirit, which we have had glimpses of in church history, the Great awakening, the Moravian revivals, the Asuza street revival are all glimpses of this final revival one that will not be quenched by the tares as they will be separated before the revival and outpouring or concurrent with it. This will cause the preaching of the gospel of the kingdom to all the world, And then the end will come.

It is not that God did not reveal all of this to us, but that men have failed, and God took that into account as part of his plan. Thus we only see in part until the perfect comes in.
 

charity

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I think a number of members of this forum are looking for the Latter Rain, an end-times outpouring of the Holy Spirit which will bring unity and sanctity to the church.

If this is your view, I have this question for you.
What will God provide then, that He is not providing now?
Hello @marks,

I know nothing about this. So I decided to take a look and see what I could find from Scripture regarding the latter rain. The first reference to it is in Deuteronomy 11:14, where Moses is speaking to the Children of Israel concerning the promised land, and their entry into it:-


'And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto My commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul, that I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, and I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be full. Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them; And then the LORD'S wrath be kindled against you, and He shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you. Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.' (Deuteronomy 11:14-18).

* 'The first (early) rain' - Falling in the middle of October to January, preparing ground for seeds.
* 'The latter rain' - Falling in March and April, bringing on the harvest.


(ref:Bible marginal notes)

'Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God:
for He hath given you the former rain moderately,
and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller,
and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God,
that hath dealt wondrously with you: and My people shall never be ashamed.
And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
and that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
and My people shall never be ashamed.' (Joel 2:23-27)


'Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.
Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth,
and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.'
(Jas 5:7)

* This is Israel centred, and will be the result of their repentance, at the coming of the Lord. I think of Acts 3:18-19, where Peter calls on Israel to repent:-

'Repent ye therefore, and be converted,
that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.'
(Act 3:19-21)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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charity

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You are saying that unbelievers prevent God's children from having unity? I don't find that to be true, either in the Bible, or in my life.

Aren't we all filled with the Holy Spirit, and does not the Holy Spirit give us unity with each other? And has not God revealed in His Word that this, having unity with each other, that this is His will for us?

It sounds like you are saying that we need what amounts to a re-baptism in the Holy Spirit so that we can overcome the effect of unbelievers in our midst, and actually have unity with each other. I believe that God gives us everything needed to fulfill His will in our lives, including that we have unity in the family of God.

Would it really be His intent for us now, but then to hold back the power to make it so?

Much love!
Hello @marks

Are we not complete in Christ?

'Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power:
... '
(Coossians 2:8-10)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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marks

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Hello @marks

Are we not complete in Christ?

'Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power:
... '
(Coossians 2:8-10)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Yes, this is another place I see the same thing. We are not lacking in Christ.

I think where it says that we are complete in Him, it's that same word there as "fulness", for in Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and you are filled up in Him.

Filled full, completed, I don't see that there is anything lacking to us.

Much love!
 
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David H.

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Filled full, completed, I don't see that there is anything lacking to us.

Not to be offensive, but this attitude is what the Laodicean believer says:
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: Revelation 3:17.

And contrary to Ephesians 4:13, and 1 Corinthians 13:9-10.

It is the attitude that leads to complacency in the church.
 
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David H.

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It sounds like you are saying that we need what amounts to a re-baptism in the Holy Spirit so that we can overcome the effect of unbelievers in our midst, and actually have unity with each other. I believe that God gives us everything needed to fulfill His will in our lives, including that we have unity in the family of God.

Here is a good teaching on the wheat and tares from Warren Wiersbe, He makes some great points re: wherever God sows the good seed, the devil sows bad seed.

The Wheat and Tares Parable 1- Warren Wiersbe - YouTube
 

marks

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Hello @marks,

I know nothing about this.

A wonderful place to begin!

:)

So I decided to take a look and see what I could find from Scripture regarding the latter rain. The first reference to it is in Deuteronomy 11:14, where Moses is speaking to the Children of Israel concerning the promised land, and their entry into it:-

'And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto My commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul, that I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, and I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be full. Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them; And then the LORD'S wrath be kindled against you, and He shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you. Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.' (Deuteronomy 11:14-18).

* 'The first (early) rain' - Falling in the middle of October to January, preparing ground for seeds.
* 'The latter rain' - Falling in March and April, bringing on the harvest.


(ref:Bible marginal notes)

'Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God:
for He hath given you the former rain moderately,
and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller,
and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God,
that hath dealt wondrously with you: and My people shall never be ashamed.
And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
and that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
and My people shall never be ashamed.' (Joel 2:23-27)


'Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord.
Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth,
and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.'
(Jas 5:7)

* This is Israel centred, and will be the result of their repentance, at the coming of the Lord. I think of Acts 3:18-19, where Peter calls on Israel to repent:-

'Repent ye therefore, and be converted,
that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.'
(Act 3:19-21)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris,

Something in the Deuteronomy passage caught my eye, If God's wrath be kindled against you, there will be no rain. Of course God's wrath would never be against the church, we are saved from wrath.

But what caught my eye was, there be no rain, no former rain, no latter rain, but, in the words of Leviticus, the heavens like iron and the dirt like bronze. Or is it the other way? I forget!

So then early and latter rain here are both about the same thing, fulfilling God's covenant to materially bless Israel based on whether Israel harkened diligently to God's commandments given that day. If they do, they receive the rains, if not, then not.

As I relook at it, Joel seems to speak the same way, "I'll send you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain". And this will result in the same material blessings to Israel. As I remember, isn't this where it says, And afterward, I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh?

Wouldn't it be referring to a time before that Pentecost?

In the James passage I can see a simile being used, like you've bolded there, as the farmer waits for his crops until he's received the rains, so we wait for the Lord.

In this simile, I'd agree the comparison points us to Israel, as that is the precedent, that these are what bring Israel the blessings of their covenant with God, which will be exactly what happens when Jesus comes at the end of the age.

In Acts, this phrase "times of refreshing", I've long been intrigued by this verse.

Much love!
 
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marks

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Not to be offensive, but this attitude is what the Laodicean believer says:
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: Revelation 3:17.

And contrary to Ephesians 4:13, and 1 Corinthians 13:9-10.

It is the attitude that leads to complacency in the church.
Not so.

Let me ask you, what does this passage mean to you?

Colossians 2:9-10
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Are we then not complete in Him?

Much love!
 

marks

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Not to be offensive, but this attitude is what the Laodicean believer says:
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: Revelation 3:17.

Have you considered before whether Jesus meant exactly what He told John to write, that these people were saying, "Hey, I'm rich, I've got all this money! And I've got all this great stuff!! I don't need anything!"?

And while they are looking at their material/economic state, Jesus calls them out on their spiritual state.

Meanwhile, I'm asserting that God has made us spiritually rich by actually coming and living in us, the Creator of everything living in this little speck of 'me'! That God's presence in me cannot be bettered in any way imaginable. That God's presence in me is, "Christ in you, the hope (expectation) of glory".

Much love!
 
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marks

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Here is a good teaching on the wheat and tares from Warren Wiersbe, He makes some great points re: wherever God sows the good seed, the devil sows bad seed.

Do you mean in the same person?

Much love!
 

Billy Evmur

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I think a number of members of this forum are looking for the Latter Rain, an end-times outpouring of the Holy Spirit which will bring unity and sanctity to the church.

If this is your view, I have this question for you.

What will God provide then, that He is not providing now?

Much love!
But God is moving mightily in a sovereign way in Africa and China and even India has opened her door to the gospel.

It is the western church which is in decline ... has in large measure shunned what God has been doing, He will work with individuals.

What is needed in the west is nothing short of a new reformation, not of doctrine but of ministry.

"... that through the church the MANIFOLD wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places"

He simply can't do that through a pastor + plus one or two assistants + a rock band and the lady who fixes the flowers

It would be like trying to pour new wine into old bottles. In fact that is what has been happening for over a hundred years. Although at the reformation we had terrific new light upon doctrines yet they kept the old RC pattern of ministry, the priest became the pastor and the laity stayed the laity [no such thing as laity.] All the gifts are still locked up under the leadership of men. The gifts are the manifold wisdom of God.

There is such a resistance in the church to what God wants to do.
 

David H.

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Not so.

Let me ask you, what does this passage mean to you?

Colossians 2:9-10
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Are we then not complete in Him?

We are complete in him who are his, But the church is full of both wheat and tares, and we are still in our fallen bodies, and there is spiritual growth that occurs in us which is progressive sanctification. Do Not get hooked into the hyper dispensational argument that the wheat and tares refers to Israel as it refers to the "world" Ie: Christendom in general, and the lie that the Kingdom of heaven only applies to the Jews. The Gospel of the Kingdom is not just for the Jews any longer but for all who believe, and is preached in all the world, not just Israel.

we are one in Christ Jesus. We Never stop growing in Christ Jesus. He is infinite, we are finite in our earthen vessels. These points you are making and getting swayed by are the root of the cult of textualism which in itself is of the tares. Faith is a journey, not a destination.