Law vs Gospel

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Netchaplain

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A few things, righteousness is not a New Testament idea, it is all through the Old Testament, so righteousness was well before God manifested Himself in the flesh in the person of Yeshua.
Being "righteous" began with Noah (Gen 6:8; 7:1), but this righteousness always comes from God, and thus it is always God's righteousness people are in, for they have none of their own (due to possessing the old man or sin nature). This answers to "There is none righteous, no, not one" (as to their own righteousness - Rom 3:10).
 

mailmandan

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Being "righteous" began with Noah (Gen 6:8; 7:1), but this righteousness always comes from God, and thus it is always God's righteousness people are in, for they have none of their own (due to possessing the old man or sin nature). This answers to "There is none righteous, no, not one" (as to their own righteousness - Rom 3:10).
Amen! Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
 
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Netchaplain

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Amen! Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
Amen, faith first, which is all that is necessary for salvation; then eventually as we mature comes the proof of being in Christ's righteousness by the works of His righteousness!
 

Jim B

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When Paul speaks of "the Law" in the epistle to the Romans (or in 2 Corinthians), he is speaking about the Ten Commandments, not the 613 commandments in the Law of Moses, and certainly not civil and criminal laws as we know them.



Got any Chapter and Verse for this claim?
Got any verse that disproves this claim? Paul was a very learned student of the Law. When he mentions "the law" he is clearly referring to the Torah -- the first five books of the Hebrew Bible.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Law vs Gospel​


The Gospel itself is law, it is called the "law of Christ" (Gal 6:2) and the Gospel is NT law that must be obeyed (2 Thess 1:8) for men are "under law to Christ" (1 Cor 9:27) for the "the law of Christ" is to be fulfilled (Gal 6:2).

The 'law of Christ" is also called "the faith" and one must have obedience to the faith (Acts 6:7; Rom 1:5).

This law of Christ is also called "the truth" and the truth must be obeyed (Rom 2:8) the truth is something done (1 Jn 1:6).

This law of Christ is also called the law of liberty by which one abides (James 1:25).

This law of Christ is also know as the doctrine of Christ which one must abide in (2 Jn 1:9).
 

Jim B

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The law does not only condemn but it also blesses when kept Deut 28:1-14 and the rest of Deut reveals what happens when not kept. Let every matter be established by two or three witnesses, so it is revealed in Lev 23:1-13 which again reveal blessings and the rest reveals curses.

Shalom and Blessings
But it is (and always has been) impossible for anyone to keep the OT law in its entirety, with the obvious exception of one person.
 
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Gospel Believer

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Not under the Law of Moses. But definitely under the Law of Christ. So there is no lawlessness in Christianity.

True. And here is that ONE and ONLY Law ......Paul even “ called” it, “ The Law of Christ” ( Gal.6:2) “ Take on the Burdens Of Others”)...... Yeah, that’s it.....sorry to disappoint......I understand how the Legalists and the Religionists among us crave more.....they just “ Insist” on finding a way to be “ Co-Savior”......They want to share in the Glory That is exclusive to our Savior, Jesus.....God won’t have it.
 

Gospel Believer

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Law vs Gospel​


The Gospel itself is law, it is called the "law of Christ" (Gal 6:2) and the Gospel is NT law that must be obeyed (2 Thess 1:8) for men are "under law to Christ" (1 Cor 9:27) for the "the law of Christ" is to be fulfilled (Gal 6:2).

The 'law of Christ" is also called "the faith" and one must have obedience to the faith (Acts 6:7; Rom 1:5).

This law of Christ is also called "the truth" and the truth must be obeyed (Rom 2:8) the truth is something done (1 Jn 1:6).

This law of Christ is also called the law of liberty by which one abides (James 1:25).

This law of Christ is also know as the doctrine of Christ which one must abide in (2 Jn 1:9).

The TRUE Gospel is the opposite of the Law.....
The Law is what man does for God....

The Gospel That Saves is what God has done for man....

Wanna hear those terrible words, “ Depart from Me, I never knew you?” Just stand before God on Judgement Day and tell Him what you “ did” for Him to merit your Salvation....
 

Gospel Believer

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A few things, righteousness is not a New Testament idea, it is all through the Old Testament, so righteousness was well before God manifested Himself in the flesh in the person of Yeshua. Yeshua gives us atonement and redemption revealed through being the Passover Lamb, which is what the very first Passover in Exodus was the pattern and not the Easter bunny. Tribulation via plagues then redemption via the Passover Lamb then, writing the law down on how to live, worship and follow Yahweh to be a HOLY set apart people which is Torah and righteousness. That's the order. This is what Peter has in mind when he said be holy for I am holy directly quoting the Torah (Law). Yeshua is our redeemer, deliverer and savior exactly as happened in the Exodus account. Yahweh Passed over His people that did what He said which is in and of itself a law by killing a lamb and applying the blood on the doorpost. They were blessed because they followed that law (teaching and instruction) the ones that were cursed were the ones that did not follow that law (teaching and instruction) being most of the Egyptians representing the world who do not want to follow the teachings and instructions. One also needs to remember there were very likely none Hebrew people that also killed a lamb and put on their doorpost after witnessing the plagues and how after the third plague Israel were not affected by the plagues they saw and witnessed them but were not affected by them. A big hint here as to a pattern of the end times also. Then there was a host of mixed multitudes peoples that left with Israel from Egypt, then the Law says one law for the native born and the stranger. ONE LAW!!!

One also new to be careful of blanket statements as the "Jews" being kept from fellowship. There are literally thousands of "Jews" who have come to believe that Yeshua is the Messiah thus starting to fulfill prophecy of the fulness of the Gentiles. Paul clearly teaches that Jews or Israelites have a blindness and deafness to Yeshua as Messiah but this was bought on by Yahweh Himself, there will come a time and it has already started that "Jews" eyes, ears and hearts will be opened and they will see Messiah Yeshua. Halleluyah!!!! Many already believe!!!
You rightly say that Jer and Eze reveal the two becoming one which Yeshua also taught that He has sheep in another fold and they will be bought in and the two shall become one John 10:16. Another way of saying what Jer and Eze say a very Hebrew way of thinking. Remember Yahweh decided to reveal (manifest) Himself as one from the tribe of Judah literally a "Jew" in Yeshua our Messiah. Fulfilling prophecy from centuries and centuries earlier. By the blessing Jacob gave over Judah. Following on through the Davidic covenant. One cannot fully understand end times until one understands the history and involvement of Israel and other ancient cultures. One needs to understand what the "House of Israel" means and what the "House of Judah" means.

Righteousness and redemption are different issues. It is imperative to understand these terms from the original Hebrew language. Which our Bibles were written in. These terms mean different things to someone living in 21st Century speaking Modern English. Righteousness and redemption are English words trying to convey the Hebrew words and their meaning and nearly all the time English falls hopelessly short.

Blessings and Shalom


The only “ Righteousness” and the only “ Holiness” That any human being will ever have is the Righteousness and Holiness that is IMPUTED to them because of their Faith in Jesus Christ......The Bible makes it clear that “ Your” Righteousness is akin to “ used menstrual rags” .....Strive to obey all of God’s laws that you can....He will bless you for it! .....that’s good news.....the bad news is that He won’t save you for it.....Salvation comes from putting your Trust in The One that kept All the Laws perfectly——something you will NEVER do......and if you choose “ The Performance Of The Law” route in order to “ Earn” your Salvation, the Standard will be Perfection— 24/7.....Be aware that if you break just One Law, you are guilty of Breaking them All ( James 2:10)...... good luck with that—- you’re gonna need it!
 

Gospel Believer

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Amen! Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.


It just can’t get any plainer.....how Anybody can miss these clear verses is beyond me.....maybe it’s that “ eyes to see” thingy.....
 
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Netchaplain

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Law vs Gospel​


The Gospel itself is law, it is called the "law of Christ" (Gal 6:2) and the Gospel is NT law that must be obeyed (2 Thess 1:8) for men are "under law to Christ" (1 Cor 9:27) for the "the law of Christ" is to be fulfilled (Gal 6:2).

The 'law of Christ" is also called "the faith" and one must have obedience to the faith (Acts 6:7; Rom 1:5).

This law of Christ is also called "the truth" and the truth must be obeyed (Rom 2:8) the truth is something done (1 Jn 1:6).

This law of Christ is also called the law of liberty by which one abides (James 1:25).

This law of Christ is also know as the doctrine of Christ which one must abide in (2 Jn 1:9).
The word "law" has two basic meanings: the Decalogue; or a principle or force. A good example I think is "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ" (Gal 6:2).

"Fulfil the law of Christ"; which is the law of love to one another, John 13:34 in opposition to the law of Moses, the judaizing Galatians were so fond of, and by which Christ's disciples may be distinguished from those of Moses, or any others. This is a law or doctrine which Christ has clearly taught, and recovered from the false glosses of the Pharisees; it is his new commandment, which he has strengthened and enforced by his own example in dying for his people, and which he, by his Spirit, inscribes upon their hearts. The Jews speak of the law of the Messiah as preferable to any other. "The law (they say {x}) which a man learns in this world is vanity, in comparison of xyvm lv wtrwt "the law of the Messiah," or Christ;" by "fulfilling," it is meant, doing it, acting in obedience to it, and not a perfect fulfilling it, which cannot be done by sinful creatures." -John Gill
 

Ernest T. Bass

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The word "law" has two basic meanings: the Decalogue; or a principle or force. A good example I think is "Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ" (Gal 6:2).

"Fulfil the law of Christ"; which is the law of love to one another, John 13:34 in opposition to the law of Moses, the judaizing Galatians were so fond of, and by which Christ's disciples may be distinguished from those of Moses, or any others. This is a law or doctrine which Christ has clearly taught, and recovered from the false glosses of the Pharisees; it is his new commandment, which he has strengthened and enforced by his own example in dying for his people, and which he, by his Spirit, inscribes upon their hearts. The Jews speak of the law of the Messiah as preferable to any other. "The law (they say {x}) which a man learns in this world is vanity, in comparison of xyvm lv wtrwt "the law of the Messiah," or Christ;" by "fulfilling," it is meant, doing it, acting in obedience to it, and not a perfect fulfilling it, which cannot be done by sinful creatures." -John Gill
I was referring to the NT law of Christ in my post, not the OT law of Moses. Christ's NT law is called the gospel, the faith, the truth, royal law, etc.

My point was that the gospel is not void of law as grace is not void of law for no one was ever saved by living in disobedient to God's law. Those who follow Luther's faith onlyism look for ways to get around 'law' for law requires obedience and obedience is antagonistic to faith onlyism. Again, Christ's law (Gal 6:2) which is the NT gospel requires obedience...one must obey the gospel (NT law) else be in flaming fire.

The NT law does not require flawless, perfect law keeping to be justified as the OT law. All the NT requires a simple faithful obedience and provides repentance for the times the Christian sin (transgresses the NT law) and this faith obedience can be done by any accountable person who so chooses to do so.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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The TRUE Gospel is the opposite of the Law.....
The Law is what man does for God....

The Gospel That Saves is what God has done for man....

Wanna hear those terrible words, “ Depart from Me, I never knew you?” Just stand before God on Judgement Day and tell Him what you “ did” for Him to merit your Salvation....
My point was that the NT gospel is not void of law (2 Thess 1:8) as grace is not void of law (Romans 6) for no one was ever saved by living in disobedient to God's law, that is, no one was ever saved by serving "sin unto death" but saved by "obedience unto righteousness" (Rom 6:16).
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Are We Under Law or Grace?

A significant group of misguided souls alleges that the “grace” of Jesus Christ has dispensed with the need for “law.” This “antinomian” ideology is designed to throw the mantle of fellowship around those who have not obeyed the Lord in the process of becoming a Christian. The adversarial conflict that some see between “grace” and “law” is false.

Why do some insist that Christians are under law today? We are not under law, but grace. The law came by Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus (Jn. 1:17).

We must respectfully point out that the question recorded above reflects a serious misunderstanding of the nature of both law and grace. And it misrepresents the nature of the religious system to which men are amenable today.

It is a tragedy of enormous magnitude that some, waving the banner of grace, argue that they are free from the constraints of sacred law and thus are at liberty to forge their own route along the religious terrain.

One cannot but be reminded of Jude’s indictment of certain persons who pervert God’s grace to accommodate their own sensual goals (Jude 4).

John 1:17 — Law and Grace

The beloved apostle records these words in John 1:17:

For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Here, the terms “law” and “grace” are employed to designate the predominate systems of divine, written revelation—namely the two covenants.

The first covenant was that given through Moses at Sinai, commonly known as the law of Moses. The second was a universal covenant for mankind that issued from Jesus Christ, and was ratified by the Lord’s death (Mt. 26:28).

Jeremiah referred to these respective systems as “the covenant” that Jehovah made with the fathers when he brought them out of Egyptian bondage, and the “new covenant” which later would be world-wide in scope (Jer. 31:31-34).

The writer of the book of Hebrews referred to these laws as the first and the second (Heb. 8:7), or the old and the new (Heb. 8:13).

In the text under review (Jn. 1:17), the two covenants are designated respectively as “law” and “grace.” And there is a very logical explanation for these appellations. It has to do with the prevailing themes characteristic of these systems.

The function of the Mosaic law was as follows:

1- To demonstrate that the violation of divine law separates the perpetrator from God (Isa. 59:1-2).
2- To declare that written law is needed to define sin (Rom. 7:7).
3- To show, by recorded precedent, that sacred justice requires that a penalty be paid for law-breaking (Rom. 3:26; 1 Cor. 10:5ff).


On the other hand, the dominant design of the New Covenant is to stress the redemptive mission of Christ as the only remedy for the human sin problem (Mt. 26:28; 1 Cor. 15:3). The wonderful plan of salvation is the result of Heaven’s grace (Eph. 2:8-9), not human merit. No richer term, than that of grace, could be employed as a synecdoche (the part put for the whole) for the summation of God’s thrilling scheme of redemption.

It is entirely reasonable, therefore, that these two systems should be set forth in a contrasted fashion, such as law and grace.

Abusing the Text

It is a baffling mystery as to how anyone, with even a cursory knowledge of Scripture, should not understand that there was an abundant measure of grace under the law of Moses.

Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord long before the Mosaic system was birthed (Gen. 6:8), but it was not the modern sort of cheap grace that disavows obedience (Gen. 6:22; cf. Heb. 11:7).

Scores of Old Testament passages stress the pouring out of Jehovah’s grace in ancient times upon those who responded in obedience to his will (cf. Ex. 33:13; Dt. 7:12; Jer. 31:3).

It is no surprise that many today are ready to repudiate the idea that man is responsible to sacred law. Outlaws despise law!

The reality is, this irresponsible suggestion — that folks today are “under grace” as opposed to law — is so trifling that it would scarcely be worthy of a rebuttal were it not for the fact that it is so common.

The notion has absolutely no sanction in Scripture.

No Law Today?

Were it the case that man is not under law in this era of time, then it would follow necessarily that sin would not exist today, for sin is a transgression of the law (1 Jn. 3:4). As Paul once noted, where there is no law, there is no sin (Rom. 4:15).

By way of contrast, since it obviously is the case that men (even Christians) do sin in this era (1 Jn. 1:8—2:2), the compelling implication is that there is a divine law to which men now are amenable.

The Christian-era Law of God in Prophecy

The Old Testament prophets, in previewing the coming of the Christian age (“grace”), spoke of a time in which the law of God would be obligatory.

Isaiah, for instance, spoke of the days of the new covenant, when Jehovah’s “law” would go forth from Zion (Is. 2:2-4). The term “law” renders an original term suggesting “instruction” considered as a “rule of duty” (Young 1965, 106).

Similarly, when Jeremiah spoke of the “new covenant” (Jer. 31:31ff), he made it the equivalent of God’s law, which would take up residence in man’s heart (Jer. 31:33).


A King Is on His Throne

When Jesus Christ is repeatedly depicted as a king in the biblical record, clearly the concept is set forth that he exercises an authority to which men are expected to comply.

If this is not law, there is no meaning to such terms as king, rule, reign, submit, obey, etc. (see Mt. 2:2; 28:18; Lk. 19:14, 27; Eph. 1:20-23; Phil. 2:9-10; Heb. 5:9; Rev. 1:5; 19:16).

Law Respected By Apostles

The inspired writers of the New Testament viewed the authority of the regime of Christ as one of law.

Our freedom from the condemning effect of sin is the result of our submission to the “law of the Spirit” (Rom. 8:2). The expression “law of the Spirit” is the same as the gospel, the new covenant system.

It is “of the Spirit” because it was conveyed by the Spirit’s direction. It is designated as law because it is an “expression of the divine will” and a “rule of conduct” (Lard n.d., 247).

Elsewhere, Paul acknowledged that he was “under law to Christ” (1 Cor. 9:21). Additionally, to the Galatians he gives this admonition:

Bear one another’s burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ (Gal. 6:2).

Finally, if the inspired James is not referring to the present order of things, when he alluded to the “perfect law” (Jas. 1:25), of what was he speaking?

Conclusion

A consideration of the foregoing facts ought to enable the conscientious Bible student to see John 1:17 in a balanced light.

Furthermore, it should forever banish the absurd notion that our modern world is exempt from the restraints of sacred law.

SOURCES
Lard, Moses. n.d. Commentary on Romans. Cincinnati, OH: Standard.
Young, E. J. 1965. The Book of Isaiah. Vol. I. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans.
Wayne Jackson

(my emp)
 

Gospel Believer

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My point was that the NT gospel is not void of law (2 Thess 1:8) as grace is not void of law (Romans 6) for no one was ever saved by living in disobedient to God's law, that is, no one was ever saved by serving "sin unto death" but saved by "obedience unto righteousness" (Rom 6:16).


Adding Law to Grace nullifies Grace—— Christianity 101....” And if it is by Grace, it is no longer by Works, otherwise grace would no longer be Grace”. Romans 11:6
 
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Dropship

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The Law of Moses being given to Israel manifested the love of God to them, and eventually to the world! He chose a “people,” which could have been any nation, to establish knowledge and faith in Himself..

Certainly the Israelites were God's "chosen people" to send his Son to because they were more spiritually advanced than most other nations,
For example if he'd sent him to America he'd have quickly been scalped, and if to Africa he'd have been put in the cookpot, but at least in Israel he lasted 3 years before they killed him.
This raises the question "Are jews still God's chosen people today even though they murdered his Son?"
I think not..:)-

rel god-point.jpg
 

Ernest T. Bass

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My point was that the NT gospel is not void of law (2 Thess 1:8) as grace is not void of law (Romans 6) for no one was ever saved by living in disobedient to God's law, that is, no one was ever saved by serving "sin unto death" but saved by "obedience unto righteousness" (Rom 6:16).


Adding Law to Grace nullifies Grace—— Christianity 101....” And if it is by Grace, it is no longer by Works, otherwise grace would no longer be Grace”. Romans 11:6
Rom 11:6 refers to works of merit not obedience for Paul in Romans is contrasting grace from works of merit. Even in the immediate context, Paul shows God's people have always been those who obey.......in OT time those who obeyed by not bowing to Baal and in present NT times those who obeyed the gospel of Christ are of the elect. Those who are God's people have never been so based on some unconditional, arbitrary, unknown choice but based upon obedience....OT and NT.

Romans 6, Paul points out that even though the Christian is saved by grace that does not give the Christian to sin for Paul did not teach cheap grace where the Christian can live in sinful disobedience God's law and yet be saved anyway. For if one is not obeying he is serving 'sin unto death' and therefore lost rather than being saved by serving 'obedience unto righteousness'. (Rom 6:16). Nowhere in Romans or elsewhere did Paul ever eliminate obedience from salvation but made obedience a necessity in being saved.
 

Gospel Believer

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Certainly the Israelites were God's "chosen people" to send his Son to because they were more spiritually advanced than most other nations,
For example if he'd sent him to America he'd have quickly been scalped, and if to Africa he'd have been put in the cookpot, but at least in Israel he lasted 3 years before they killed him.
This raises the question "Are jews still God's chosen people today even though they murdered his Son?"
I think not..:)-

View attachment 27937


God has set aside His STILL “ Chosen People “ temporarily ......He will still fulfill the Promises that He made to the ancient Patriarchs such as Abraham, Moses, etc

It wasn’t the Jews that murdered Jesus per se.....it was the “ Religious” Jews that did it.....the “ Religionists” Of today would likely do it again if they were given the opportunity.....the Self- Righteous Religionists Of Jesus’ day did not “Know Him” then and they don’t “ Know Him” now.....
 

Gospel Believer

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. Nowhere in Romans or elsewhere did Paul ever eliminate obedience from salvation but made obedience a necessity in being saved.


Nowhere? Really? Are you sure ?
Paul’s Gospel is one thing and one thing ONLY —— it is the One given to him by Jesus personally and it is the one that you must “ obey” , because it is the one that Paul says you will be Judged by on Judgement Day......it can be found in 1Cor15:1-4 .....you “ Obey” it by Trusting in “ IT” and “ IT ALONE” ...... You show that you Obey it by RESTING in it......that means that you don’t ADD to it , lest you “ Fall From Grsce” and become “ Severed from Christ “....... read Galatians.....especially the Fifth Chapter .....then go back and read Chapter one verse 8......Falling for a False “Gospel” Of Works is bad enough but if you actually go farther and “Teach” it, You will become “ Accursed”...... that’s just a polite way to say that you are damned.....people need to be VERY careful about what they preach, no matter how “ good” or “ Holy” it may sound.....if by “ Obedience “ you are referring about being obedient to the Law Of Moses , that type of obedience might make you more “ moral” but it it does not save a person and it is Not a part of the Gospel That Paul Preached for Salvation .....Hell is going to be “ chock- full “ of “ moral people.....count on it! For Salvation it’s “ Nothing But The Blood”—— That Thinking is at the Crux Of Paul’s Gospel.....You need to Repent about that while you still have time ......
 

Dropship

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God has set aside His STILL “ Chosen People “ temporarily ......He will still fulfill the Promises that He made to the ancient Patriarchs such as Abraham, Moses, etc

Heaven is a 'christians-only' gated community, so no way will jews or any other nonchristians be let in unless they become christians before they die.
I mean, if nonchristians were let in it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood" and I swear I wouldn't want to go..:)