Lawless Ones subverting the truth in Christ.

[Episkopos]

It seems this forum is like a magnet to the lawless ones who reduce Jesus Christ to an anarchist who tolerates sin...even dies to protect our right to sin. In this scheme men don't change or convert...GOD DOES! So the law or anything that shows the truth...is abolished. What a time we are living in. A time of no faith.

So do these busybodies coming here show the level of unbelief in the church as a whole?

Let's look at some of the statements made on this very forum...

You just can't understand that when you are dead to the law you are no longer condemned by it. You think "How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein" means we no longer sin in the flesh and that is all wrong.

I am dead to sin, therefore my sins of the flesh can no longer condemn me. Since I am dead and buried with Christ the law has no effect on me. My life I live is not under the law but under grace through faith in God.

Here we have the gnostic position of a saving knowledge that makes us schizophrenic. I am not accountable for what I do!!! Briliant!! You see this same trend in psychopaths and sociopaths. Hey, we could start a church of the psychopaths or something. :)

Here is another gem...

Its because the basis for seeing you as a sinner.......THE LAW....has been abolished..

God did something amazing........He came to earth and wrapped himself in human flesh and lived a sinless life which allowed him to abolish the law for you by meeting its standards as only the one who created it can obey it perfectly...

the law was abolished by the death of Christ and where no law is, there is no sin charged,

.The blood of Christ has created a redemption that abolished the law, pardoned us for eternity, and cant be undone once its applied to us.

Complete lawlessness here. A dangerous false teaching that seeks to overthrow the purpose of God. Notice the exact opposite is what is said in the bible...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Establish the law? This is denied in favour of satisfying the flesh. The flesh does not want to be corrected...and neither will these posters accrpt correction. The truth is blasphemed by these champions of the power of the flesh.

 

[Strat]

It seems this forum is like a magnet to the lawless ones who reduce Jesus Christ to an anarchist who tolerates sin...even dies to protect our right to sin. In this scheme men don't change or convert...GOD DOES! So the law or anything that shows the truth...is abolished. What a time we are living in. A time of no faith.

So do these busybodies coming here show the level of unbelief in the church as a whole?

Let's look at some of the statements made on this very forum...



Here we have the gnostic position of a saving knowledge that makes us schizophrenic. I am not accountable for what I do!!! Briliant!! You see this same trend in psychopaths and sociopaths. Hey, we could start a church of the psychopaths or something. :)

Here is another gem...




Complete lawlessness here. A dangerous false teaching that seeks to overthrow the purpose of God. Notice the exact opposite is what is said in the bible...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Establish the law? This is denied in favour of satisfying the flesh. The flesh does not want to be corrected...and neither will these posters accrpt correction. The truth is blasphemed by these champions of the power of the flesh.

Thanks for talking about it,the only thing you left out was the constant whining about "love"...perhaps you will have better luck expopsing it than i did....the modern church has reduced Jesus to the world's nicest guy not the lord and saviour who demands holiness and rightousness.

 

[veteran]

All I can say is, there's a major pruning coming when Christ returns, and I hope and pray I'm not in it.

What all this reveals is Satan's strategy to make Christianity meaningless according to action. It's a pacifist dogma designed to weaken the Church whilie allowing all sorts of abominations within it.

 

[mark s]

Trying to keep the Law cannot make you righteous. Grace is the only answer given in Scripture to make you righteous, both in standing and in behavior.

You do constantly misrepresent those who present God's grace as being lawless, failing to acknowledge that being personally ruled by Christ Himself is as far above trying to be perfected by works of Law as the heavens are higher than the earth.

 

[Strat]

Trying to keep the Law cannot make you righteous. Grace is the only answer given in Scripture to make you righteous, both in standing and in behavior.

You do constantly misrepresent those who present God's grace as being lawless, failing to acknowledge that being personally ruled by Christ Himself is as far above trying to be perfected by works of Law as the heavens are higher than the earth.

That would be because God's grace is all they present,their one dimensional god just gives a pass to everything...one of the tactics of modern christianity is to use Jesus to make null and void everything he stood for...the bible says obedience is better than sacrifice...modern christiainity says neither one matters that much....just do what you"feel" is right....in your own eyes of course.....what do they all say in regard to the judgement of God ? the attribute they ignore..."my god would not"....no, their god won't do anything but serve their wicked purposes and allow them to sin with impunity...oddly enough their god reserves judgement for anyone who calls for any responsability towards holiness and rightousness....their god will lead them to Hell and mock them when they get there.

 

[haz]

Hi Episkopos,

Your lawlessness, whilst judging those under grace as lawless, is a common characteristic seen from the works crowd your in.

For the works crowd Tit 1:16 says:
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate"


But for the grace crowd here, Tit 3:16 says
"But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. [sup] [/sup]Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, [sup] [/sup]knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned."

Seems there's no point to admonish the likes of Episkops any longer. Instead we just continue to preach the gospel of grace here instead.

 

[Episkopos]

Trying to keep the Law cannot make you righteous. Grace is the only answer given in Scripture to make you righteous, both in standing and in behavior.

You do constantly misrepresent those who present God's grace as being lawless, failing to acknowledge that being personally ruled by Christ Himself is as far above trying to be perfected by works of Law as the heavens are higher than the earth.

I do always bear witness of the power of Christ's resurrection to overcome the Adamic nature! :)

Hi Episkopos,

Your lawlessness, whilst judging those under grace as lawless, is a common characteristic seen from the works crowd your in.

For the works crowd Tit 1:16 says:
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate"


But for the grace crowd here, Tit 3:16 says
"But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. [sup] [/sup]Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, [sup] [/sup]knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned."

Seems there's no point to admonish the likes of Episkops any longer. Instead we just continue to preach the gospel of grace here instead.

The gospel of grace is about the power to become sons of God...not a free for all in the flesh through a repealing of irksome laws that tend to limit our freedom of doing what we feel like. :)

 

[haz]

The gospel of grace is about the power to become sons of God...not a free for all in the flesh through a repealing of irksome laws that tend to limit our freedom of doing what we feel like. :)

As we've already seen from your posts Episkopos, your doctrine shows that you do not know Christ anyway. You yourself admit you are lawless. And then you judge those under grace as lawless, insisting that we should also follow your path of being justified by works of the law.

 

[mark s]

That would be because God's grace is all they present,their one dimensional god just gives a pass to everything...one of the tactics of modern christianity is to use Jesus to make null and void everything he stood for...the bible says obedience is better than sacrifice...modern christiainity says neither one matters that much....just do what you"feel" is right....in your own eyes of course.....what do they all say in regard to the judgement of God ? the attribute they ignore..."my god would not"....no, their god won't do anything but serve their wicked purposes and allow them to sin with impunity...oddly enough their god reserves judgement for anyone who calls for any responsability towards holiness and rightousness....their god will lead them to Hell and mock them when they get there.

Hi Strat,

Please do not overlook that I am one of "they" who present salvation by grace alone.

What do you mean exactly when you say "modern Christianity"?

Who among those posting here has stated any desire to freely sin with impunity?

Because I believe that God has forgiven all my sins, past, present, and future, this somehow equals that I want to sin???

This seems to be an oft repeated argument.

Does anyone actually think this of me?

This is a serious question, folks, let's follow this through.

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[Rach1370]

The bible warns us about both extremes. Galatians in particular goes to great extent to disabuse us of falling to one side or the other. We must not rely on the law or our obeying it to save ourselves, but neither can we lean on grace as an excuse to behave in any manner we choose. Grace saves us, and that redemption and renewing of our hearts gives us both the desire and ability to follow Gods edicts. Gods laws are written upon our hearts...so while they did not and will not save us, we now desire to live them for the glory of God...after all, the law shows us His holiness, and as Christians we are told to seek out Christ-likeness in our own walk.

 

[veteran]

Trying to keep the Law cannot make you righteous. Grace is the only answer given in Scripture to make you righteous, both in standing and in behavior.

You do constantly misrepresent those who present God's grace as being lawless, failing to acknowledge that being personally ruled by Christ Himself is as far above trying to be perfected by works of Law as the heavens are higher than the earth.

How is it the 'grace only' crowd are always using the idea of Law keeping for walking by The Spirit? Do you folks understand one of the reasons why God gave us The Spirit was so His laws would be written in our hearts and minds? (Heb.8 & 10).

In Galatians 5 when Apostle Paul said if we are led by The Spirit, having the fruits of The Spirit which there is no law against, that only is HOW we are not under the Law. He then clearly gave the opposite of that with the walking by our flesh which he showed those who do that shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.


Gal 5:16-25
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
(KJV)

The law was not made for the righteous, but for the unrighteous, for the ungodly, etc. (1 Timothy 1).

The erroneous idea that sinning while under Grace is no longer important is actually a doctrine of walking by the flesh, and not by The Spirit.

So the matter comes down to whether one is either walking in The Spirit or instead fulfilling the lusts of the flesh. Thus the 'a Christian can fulfill lusts of the flesh and be saved' thinking goes directly against what Paul taught there.

 

[Episkopos]

If those who only see what men can do understood the power of the Spirit we would have no need of threads like this. The carnal man can only see 2 possibiblities...either we are forgiven sin or else we are trying not to sin. What blindness to the truth! Christ has come!!! We can walk in His Spirit and be no longer limited to what men can do. But most here have never experienced His power so they wrangle about human weaknesses.

Rather we are to strive together to enter into Christ and remain there in a constant revival of miraculous power.

Php_1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

 

[Strat]

Hi Strat,

Please do not overlook that I am one of "they" who present salvation by grace alone.

What do you mean exactly when you say "modern Christianity"?

Who among those posting here has stated any desire to freely sin with impunity?

Because I believe that God has forgiven all my sins, past, present, and future, this somehow equals that I want to sin???

This seems to be an oft repeated argument.

Does anyone actually think this of me?

This is a serious question, folks, let's follow this through.

Love in Christ,
Mark

Salvation is through grace alone but you know as well as i do that people are always looking for the loopholes...is God a God of loopholes ? is God mocked so that we can live as we please ? are those who claim to be christians yet live the same as they did before they were "saved" going to waltz into heaven and beat God at his own game ?

Modern Christianity means just what i says..christianity plus all the psycho babble,materialism,excuses and rationalization of the modern age...where sin is a "weakness,struggle or addiction"...where we have our own celebrities,gurus and talking heads and men and women of merchandise running huge profit making eneterprises...not for profit of course should the IRS be lsitening...all supported and supplied by the average modern christian who has been completely neutered in regard to discernment...go to youtube and type in TV Preacher or Ministry scandal and see what you get and read the comments from people who see christianity as nothing but a fraud....why is that ? when was the last time you saw a christian public figure actually being persecuted or making the headlines for living a rightous and holy life ? I can't remember the last time i heard christianity talked about in regard to its true purpose which is the salvation of the souls of men and women through a changed heart and a changed life all to the glory of God...it has been reduced to hand outs and freebies from the cosmic santa claus in the sky who heads up just another social club or group among many.

 

[mark s]

I can't remember the last time i heard christianity talked about in regard to its true purpose which is the salvation of the souls of men and women through a changed heart and a changed life all to the glory of God

Hi Strat,

Maybe you need to shut off the TV, and find a new church?

For me, this is a way of life. I've searched out those Bible teachers who teach these truths. And I've joined myself to a church that believes, teaches, and practices this. I teach this myself at every opportunity.

Though I'd change your wording slightly. We aren't saved through a changed heart and a changed life. We are saved though the propitiatory sacrifice made by Jesus Christ, to a changed hear and a changed life.

Time and time again, I see Christians, who have been taught in this sort of legalistic mindset, once they come to realize, Jesus really did pay for all their sin, and they are eternally saved, and forever in God's favor, time and again I see them truly begin to experience that changed life, just as happened with me when I learned this.

It's God's Grace, and nothing else, that truly frees us from sin. Not a "grace" that we have to attain to by our good behavior. Not a salvation that only comes as we do the good works. Salvation that is received, permanently changing us, and setting us free.

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Strat,

Maybe you need to shut off the TV, and find a new church?

For me, this is a way of life. I've searched out those Bible teachers who teach these truths. And I've joined myself to a church that believes, teaches, and practices this. I teach this myself at every opportunity.

Though I'd change your wording slightly. We aren't saved through a changed heart and a changed life. We are saved though the propitiatory sacrifice made by Jesus Christ, to a changed hear and a changed life.

Time and time again, I see Christians, who have been taught in this sort of legalistic mindset, once they come to realize, Jesus really did pay for all their sin, and they are eternally saved, and forever in God's favor, time and again I see them truly begin to experience that changed life, just as happened with me when I learned this.

It's God's Grace, and nothing else, that truly frees us from sin. Not a "grace" that we have to attain to by our good behavior. Not a salvation that only comes as we do the good works. Salvation that is received, permanently changing us, and setting us free.

Love in Christ,
Mark

You have exchanged the word reality for legalistic. As in...I see you are not wearing a shirt! ...well maybe not "legalistically...but positionally I am even though I'm naked!!!

LIkewise the righteousness of these make-believe liberal believers live in a false reality where they think...we believe therefore we are. This is more of a mental game than any reflection whatsoever on true Christianity.

 

[mark s]

You have exchanged the word reality for legalistic. As in...I see you are not wearing a shirt! ...well maybe not "legalistically...but positionally I am even though I'm naked!!!

LIkewise the righteousness of these make-believe liberal believers live in a false reality where they think...we believe therefore we are. This is more of a mental game than any reflection whatsoever on true Christianity.

I'm sorry, but it's difficult for me to see what relation your comments have to my post . . .

 

[Episkopos]

I'm sorry, but it's difficult for me to see what relation your comments have to my post . . .

Do you mean in a legal sense?

 

[mark s]

In any sense.

 

[Episkopos]

In any sense.

Speak without a religious unreality. Try it. :)

If you speak to a deluded person who has been brainwashed or conditioned by a religious dogma...there is no reasoning in reality with them. I see most evangelicals as no different than Jehovah's witnesses. Same delusions...what people will do in order to feel like they're eternally saved.

Why does unreality ALWAYS accompany this attribute of an eternal security?

Because it is not in the bible...it is a made up desire of sinfull men to save their own skins. So to grab hold of this man made doctrine will always cause men to lose touch with reality.

 

[Sr.Brandon]

I have been to both sides of this argument. And, most of the time this is the results, one side thinks the other is lawless while the reverse says the other side is saved by their works. This may come back to the quote that your not happy unless the other person sins are the same as yours.
I hope not.
Strive, strive to understand each others position. While the extremes do exist most aren't extreme, just misunderstood.
My personal take on this is to relate it back to the nation of Israel in the OT. Israel had a covenant with Yahweh as well. They were saved from slavery from pharaoh through grace and mercy to the father Abraham, given salvation freely. Commands were made of them that they must keep in the heart, mind and actions. Yahweh was long suffering every time Israel broke his commands, until finally they had ruined the covenant for the last time. In the new covenant we are the same except for one point. We are given salvation freely, we are given commands to abide in Him, these commands aren't done with lips only but with your heart, mind, strength and soul... The one difference is seen that this time a new covenant will not be sought out if we fail again; judgement will follow this covenant and a reward of eternal life given to those He sees fit.
He will treat you like He treated his beloved nation Israel.